Apple Says Touchscreen Macs 'Not a Particularly Useful or Appropriate Application of Multi-Touch'

[Altis]

I'm usually the first to grille Apple over their decisions... but I don't really care about a lack of touch screen on Macs. I find it ergonomically poor and it usually leads to an overly simplified UI that's a pain when you use precise inputs (such as mouse/trackpad).

The only way it'd make sense is to have the screen part detachable so you can use a pen on it.

Just my $0.02 of course and I understand that some people would like a touch screen.

 

[a.gomez]

You can just ask Steve Jobs.

Wow, you hit the time capsule gold mine. They really do need him so badly.

 

[pdxmacster]

[...] I don't want to have fingerprints, dirt, etc on the screen. I want it to be as clear as possible without having to clean it 10 times a day. Also, fingers are just too fat to replace a mouse cursor and they block the view.

So, you clean your iphone/ipad 10 times a day? Because it will gather way more fingerprints than a touchscreen laptop, where the majority of interaction still happens via keyboard/trackpad/mouse. I am watching my 11-year old work on her school-issue touchscreen Chromebook and the future is clearly for giving users more choice on how to interact with their devices. You want enter text: use your keyboard. You want to point to a precise location on your screen: use your mouse. You want to browse through a photo album and like to zoom in on photos on the go: use the touchscreen. Add to that stylus, voice, and - yes - a touch bar, and you have the best of all worlds.

I am sure that for a while now the Apple MacOS team has the code ready to add touchscreen functionality, but some folks at the design/HW end keep fighting it out of spite. Though, next year they'll finally cave in and Jon Ive's "touchscreen Macs are not particularly useful" statement can be added to Apple's other visionary gems, such as "a stylus is bad", "phablets are useless", "getting rid of the audio jack is courageous", etc.

 

[mollyc]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people assume "Mac" means laptop. Admittedly Apple has shafted the mini and Mac Pro contingency, but those plus iMacs are still relevant. Especially when considering a touch screen mac similar to the Surface Studio.

 

[MartiNZ]

Wow, you hit the time capsule gold mine. They really do need him so badly.

Well said. And again, great video find!

My response to the thread title is simply: Apple wrong.

I wouldn't buy another non-touch laptop, it just doesn't make sense. The Surface has shown that off to an amazing extent, and now I'm on a Dell 2-in-1 that is pretty much perfect, with very Applesque stylings albeit far more ports, and an excellent hinge for tablet and laptop use, and I haven't looked back. I have never had any issues of pain that some people claim - maybe they're holding it wrong? I just don't get how that could even happen, unless you use excessive force maybe?

The 2-in-1 design is also great for use on a bed or similar surface as "tent mode" allows venting into open space instead of the laptop standard, especially Apple's, of venting down into the sheets - brilliant! If Apple do go that route eventually, it could be fantastic, but the touchbar seems to me far more likely to cause pain, given the angle you have to get on that thing, and the problems of looking at the screen at the same time. The non-touchbar version seems pretty nice, but things like turning on of its own accord has real alarm bells ringing, given the tendency of recent Mac laptops to wake up from sleep when in a bag anyway.

 

[jerwin]

I wonder what Apple software developers (esp. kernel-level Unix guys) had to say about the integration of the Silly Strip and removal of ESC and function keys.

But probably they never received test units.

They'll probably grumble a bit, and then start programming their own touchbar interfaces to automate the stuff they're interested in automating, and monitoring the stuff they're interested in monitoring.

 

[farmboy]

Thread too long: didn't read.

Did anyone else notice Jony said that they made the decision not to go touch on the macbook a long time ago? That right there is design ossification in action (or inaction, rather). Just because it didn't seem right long ago doesn't mean you should never, ever reconsider your decision, when the marketplace demand has changed and technology advances.

Apple gets about 2000 patents per year...and we get a Touch Bar after more than four years. It's a nice little device to be sure, but not worth the wait.

 

[Trusteft]

So, you clean your iphone/ipad 10 times a day? Because it will gather way more fingerprints than a touchscreen laptop, where the majority of interaction still happens via keyboard/trackpad/mouse. I am watching my 11-year old work on her school-issue touchscreen Chromebook and the future is clearly for giving users more choice on how to interact with their devices. You want enter text: use your keyboard. You want to point to a precise location on your screen: use your mouse. You want to browse through a photo album and like to zoom in on photos on the go: use the touchscreen. Add to that stylus, voice, and - yes - a touch bar, and you have the best of all worlds.

I am sure that for a while now the Apple MacOS team has the code ready to add touchscreen functionality, but some folks at the design/HW end keep fighting it out of spite. Though, next year they'll finally cave in and Jon Ive's "touchscreen Macs are not particularly useful" statement can be added to Apple's other visionary gems, such as "a stylus is bad", "phablets are useless", "getting rid of the audio jack is courageous", etc.

I never clean them. I have neither an iPhone nor an iPad.

 

[groovyd]

what they need to do is solve the touchscreen problem by innovating a new touchscreen surface that somehow doesn't smudge when you touch it.

 

[Count Blah]

Christ... no one removed the function keys.

I expect people not knowing that on somewhere with a mixed base like The Verge or Gizmodo, but it just sounds dumb on MacRumors.

Tell that to people with Accessibility issues, who focus on touch typing.

Poof - Your keys are gone.

Maybe saying 'Christ' a couple more times will sell your point even more next time.

 

[cult hero]

Apple is not the most valuable company on the planet... Don't know where you got that from, Aramco is the most valuable company on the planet. Aramco's value has been estimated at anywhere between US$1.25 trillion and US$10 trillion. Apple barely makes it into in the top ten of revenue.

I meant most valuable brand. I think that technicality is totally beside the point I was making.
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Not anymore. Not with the TouchBar.

I disagree. The touch bar is not the same as the phone anymore than the trackpad is the same. Similar? Yes. The ergonomics are different though.

 

[MellowFuzz]

I think the Touch Bar is an intermediate prototype for a touch-screen replacement of the keyboard, and also possibly the touchpad a la Star Trek TNG... but I've had it with Tim Cook's Apple so what do I care...

 

[Rob_2811]

They'll probably grumble a bit, and then start programming their own touchstrip interfaces to automate the stuff they're interested in automating, and monitoring the stuff they're interested in monitoring.

Its already started ..

 

[lilrush]

This is the same Jony Ive that allowed a touch bar to happen, right? This guy needs to be fired.

The reason why you are so fast at typing is because you almost never have to look down. Your fingers are filled with many mechanoreceptors that detect the spaces between keys and altogether you have a layout of this keyboard mapped in your mind for rapid motor responses. On the touch bar, are a bunch of keys that all lay flat in a bar with no space in between, no click, no touch feedback of any kind. This means that your mind can no longer use the shortcuts allowed by a conventional keyboard. It, ironically enough, is a bar that CANNOT USE TOUCH to be recognized in the brain. Which means you need to look at it to locate a key. Which is useless. At that point it might as well be a touch screen so that you can just look at what you're already looking at.

I think a more appropriate name based on this neurological basis would be "The Look-Downwards Bar".

 

[MartiNZ]

Maybe they were trying to include such a bar in the Apple Car and that is why it got canned.

 

[MH01]

I've got a fusion drive on my iMac and agree performance is great. However, does the surface studio operate as a fusion device or 2 separate drives? Having said that, for the cost of a surface studio, I could get an all sad iMac which is why I questioned it

IMO Unless you need the specific features of the surface studio, it's not good value for money and beyond the fancy hinge it's not exactly revolutionary either.

I'm not averse to microsoft products and have a surface book, but I just don't understand why the surface studio is being portrayed as a panacea of design and innovation

I see your point.

I suspect it's a SSHD drive, a big factor will be the size of the ssd, one thing I'm very disappointed that Apple has reduced these in the new fusion drives . In my iMac I build a fusion drive with 256ssd and 3tb hd.

I suspect the studio is something new in a stagnated market for many. In my opinion being a Microsoft product it will really shine by version 3, but Microsoft will give us a new updated version each year, which cannot be said about the iMac.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

My kid uses an iPad. Touching the screen is first nature for him. And text input is pressing the mic and talking.

Yeah, him and every one else who have become used to smartphones. Their first instinct is to touch the screen, but it's very easy to adapt to the trackpad and I'd argue it's a better experience.
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They stopped, because they learned they can't use it..
I mean, if you cant use it, why keep trying

Yes, but the point is that no one was complaining about having to use the trackpad.

 

[jacobj]

Ive, you and Cook need to go...

Without Ive or Cook, Apple would never have reached the heights it did. But, without Jobs in the mix they fail to deliver. I get the feeling that Cook hasn't really stepped away from his COO role and Ive doesn't have Jobs there reality checking his ideas so that they become refined and brilliant.

Don't hate Ive and Cook because they were definitely star players on the dream team, it's just that they've lost their great captain, a few other star players and have found themselves putting others in the wrong positions to try and compensate. They can still play a good game, but they're not what they once were.

What worries me though is that I think they think they're still brilliant.

They are point blank wrong about touchscreen laptops. I use a Dell XP for work and use the touchscreen all the time. It is as much a part of how I use the machine as the mouse and far far more intuitive than a touchbar at the top of a keyboard. If you ever watch older people try to use a mouse for the first time, they really struggle to control something in the vertical plane (the screen), by moving something in the horizontal plane (the mouse). Watch that same inexperienced person use a touchscreen for the first time and there is no such learning curve.

Apple argue that holding the arm up is not comfortable or natural and they are right. But only if it were the primary form of interaction like in the case of an iPad. A touchscreen on a computer is a complimentary input and entirely comfortable as a result. People don't complain that lifting their arm to get something from the fridge is unnatural.

 

[lfhlaw]

I think an issue i'd have with touchscreen is kids. When I pull out my macbook pro and show stuff to my friend's kids...they have a tendency to point at stuff on my screen and touch it. If it were touchscreen, i could imagine opening more tabs or windows because they touched an image or a link. I hate for them to touch my screen and I'd lightly slap their fingers...telling them to not touch the MBP lol.

Recently repaired a touchscreen PC that i bought. I noticed the touch screen, but for the amount of typing i do. The touchscreen isn't conducive to typing in a vertical position. This particular Laptop doesn't fold down flat into tablet form either.

 

[rainafterthesun]

Pretty sure eventually they'll move to complete touchpad for the keyboard as well while keeping the screen touch less.

I can imagine trying to work on a project, and being able to toggle between a touch keyboard (better then the iPad as it gives haptic feedback to trick you into thinking you're typing on an actual keyboard) and then having a pad you can draw on...or use your fingers to manipulate whatever is on the screen.

You can essentially look onto the screen and use your fingers at the same time to create, without disrupting the flow. I don't know how to etiquettely type what I'm visualizing but I'm almost certain that that's what apple is moving towards. It's much cleaner (work flow not actual screen physically) then having a screen you can touch.

The touch bar is a small step. Think big and try (I know it's hard) to imagine the unimaginable.

 

[moodler]

Came here to write exactly what the last poster did. I'm also pretty sure that they would be planning for whole lower half to be a touch screen with haptic feedback (Force Touch) one day.

Then different apps can put all sorts of controls and knobs and sliders to do things to whatever you're doing on the top screen.

Pity it will all be surpassed by Augmented Reality (eg Magic Leap) before they get to it.

 

[diddl14]

It's very difficult to do that without Apple cloning the Surface.

The surface wasn't the first. I've used an HP TC1000 early 2000. Was far ahead of its time an no doubt an inspiration for what turned out to become iPad.

In meetings I used it without the keyboard, just for notes and pictures. When docked, it was a full desktop PC. Traveling I attached the keyboard and had a laptop. Now I have a separate desktop, laptop and tablet, all hooked up via iCloud. At best, that's a workaround but not a solution.

At the moment I can't even dream about going back to Windows but yes, if Apple stays on this track, ultimately it's unavoidable.

 

[MacBH928]

I don't think a touchscreen is replacing the keyboard and mouse... BUT...

it doesn't have to always be touch screen, we can use touch screen for SOME actions, we can split the actions. Whatever is better with keyboard and mouse keep it that way, and whatever is better with touching the screen... go for that route

 

[Pootmatoot]

The surface wasn't the first. I've used an HP TC1000 early 2000. Was far ahead of its time an no doubt an inspiration for what turned out to become iPad.

In meetings I used it without the keyboard, just for notes and pictures. When docked, it was a full desktop PC. Traveling I attached the keyboard and had a laptop. Now I have a separate desktop, laptop and tablet, all hooked up via iCloud. At best, that's a workaround but not a solution.

At the moment I can't even dream about going back to Windows but yes, if Apple stays on this track, ultimately it's unavoidable.

Oh yes, Microsoft weren't first to this party.

I had an wacom-enabled HP with a twist-reversible screen around 2007... it was a glorious little beast.

 

[Ramius]

The surface wasn't the first. I've used an HP TC1000 early 2000. Was far ahead of its time an no doubt an inspiration for what turned out to become iPad.

In meetings I used it without the keyboard, just for notes and pictures. When docked, it was a full desktop PC. Traveling I attached the keyboard and had a laptop. Now I have a separate desktop, laptop and tablet, all hooked up via iCloud. At best, that's a workaround but not a solution.

At the moment I can't even dream about going back to Windows but yes, if Apple stays on this track, ultimately it's unavoidable.

That is interesting to see, but the problem is the ugliness.

Thats so ahead of its time, that you clearly can see, it´s not time yet lol. I remember touch controls back then were totally aweful. Nothing like we expect from it today.

Now Im sure that if Steve Jobs were to really push Jony Ive on creating a solution like this with the most modern technology of today, it would be quite an elegant product.