Apple do put most of their high-paying jobs in the US. For the low end jobs, why should we care much? Very few of us would want those jobs anyway.
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Apple Says Trump's Tariffs Will Reduce Its Economic Contributions and Global Competitiveness
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Apple do put most of their high-paying jobs in the US. For the low end jobs, why should we care much? Very few of us would want those jobs anyway.
Nah I made my point clearly. It’s not my problem if you can’t understand it. It’s ironic though that you make fun of people who cry fake news because they want to believe their narrative but then you chose to ignore it when FACTS are presented that are unfavorable to someone you like....
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There's the disconnect going on. The "LearnToCode" hashtag is a perfect example. There are low skill jobs being eradicated in the USA and people keep saying a coal miner should just go get a tech job. The jobs you are saying nobody wants are the only option in tech for these people. The problem is we keep shipping those jobs out to the place that will abuse their workers the most for the least possible dollar and wash our hands in the name of "Global Competition". Rather than respect human decency and not do business with people that abuse their labor force.
An excuse to inflate the price of their products.
[doublepost=1561066405][/doublepost]Apple say that tariffs on Chinese goods will raise their costs, which they'll have to pass onto the consumer.
Also Apple...
"Apple Reportedly Considering Moving Up to 30% of Production Out of China to Diversify Supply Chain"
For those that continue thinking tariffs are good, please read some information from multiple different expert sources.
Politifact: Does China Pay US Tariffs or US Consumers?
investors.com: What is a tariff?
Reuters: US Trade China Tariffs Explained
taxpolicycenter.org: What's A Tariff And Who Pays It
WHO PAYS FOR US-CHINA TARIFFS?
Politifact: Does China Pay US Tariffs or US Consumers?
investors.com: What is a tariff?
Reuters: US Trade China Tariffs Explained
taxpolicycenter.org: What's A Tariff And Who Pays It
WHO PAYS FOR US-CHINA TARIFFS?
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Best thing for Apple to do (which they have been planning for several years) is to diversify their manufacturing to other countries so that they don't get swept up in politics and trade wars.
They can't move to the big manufacturing to US, not only because of the labor costs. If you want to build a factory and have 50,000 additional engineers and technicians to make a product ready to sell for x-mas season, China can get you going in few months. In the U.S. they would take years just to get a zoning permit.
China even created a whole free-trade economic zone to help these companies. They help companies be more successful and then country then attracts more business.
Most countries are proud of their successful companies. Apple is one of the most successful companies in the US. For a country that is known for it's entrepreneurial spirit and innovation, it bewilders me the hate-on people have for Apple.
They can't move to the big manufacturing to US, not only because of the labor costs. If you want to build a factory and have 50,000 additional engineers and technicians to make a product ready to sell for x-mas season, China can get you going in few months. In the U.S. they would take years just to get a zoning permit.
China even created a whole free-trade economic zone to help these companies. They help companies be more successful and then country then attracts more business.
Most countries are proud of their successful companies. Apple is one of the most successful companies in the US. For a country that is known for it's entrepreneurial spirit and innovation, it bewilders me the hate-on people have for Apple.
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How is Apple having manufacturing in USA “not good for America?” Are that many people just going to stop buying iPhones cause they cost more? Apple has been raising prices sharply and Americans still keep buying them so I’m not seeing how your argument stands. Also a 25% tariff doesn’t mean that a $1000 iPhone suddenly costs $1250. The 25% is charged based off the value of the goods imported, which is the iPhone’s cost before Apple’s markup. My guess is that Apple would declare the value somewhere in the $200-300 for the raw assembled parts. A 25% tariff would mean $75 on the high end.
What percentage of Apple products are actually sold in the USA? About 30%? Let’s assume that is correct and so Apple can continue to make 70% of their products in China and pay no tariffs since they are not being sold into the USA. Can Apple not move 30% of their manufacturing to USA? Also what’s the basis of $1500 in labor to produce an iPhone? Let’s argue that comparable labor cost of auto manufacturers applies to iPhone production. Wages are about $30 an hour. With benefits and other employment costs (which are tax deductible) let’s say that it brings the total hourly labor cost to $60. 1500 divided by 60 gives you 25 hours to make a single iPhone! Are we to believe that an American would take 3 DAYS to put together an iPhone? The circuit boards are already assembled by machines and I’d be shocked if it takes someone in China more than 15 minutes to turn a dozen screws and apply some glue.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
I do want the US to come out on top. I do believe China is looking out for no.1 (and by China, I mean the Chinese government) . No, I don't believe they give a single f about altruism.
Now, to be clear, I have no idea what the solution is regarding this trade war. I barely understand it.
But the US (government and it's main rep, the President) attitude of supremacy can have an impact on ALL aspects of international relations, INCLUDING trade agreements.
My beef is personal. I can't stand neither Donald Trump, nor those that like him.
For those that continue thinking tariffs are good, please read some information from multiple different expert sources.
Politifact: Does China Pay US Tariffs or US Consumers?
investors.com: What is a tariff?
Reuters: US Trade China Tariffs Explained
taxpolicycenter.org: What's A Tariff And Who Pays It
WHO PAYS FOR US-CHINA TARIFFS?
I am fine paying the tariffs if it means China has to bend a little. China is a much bigger threat to our economic future than these tariffs.
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So it seems you would applaud these tarrifs if Obama had implemented them. The ONLY reason you’re against them is because you don’t like Trump. In my book that makes you a part of the problem facing this country. Party before country is a stupid mindset.
At least you're honest. When you're prepared to deal with the issue at hand rather than how you've been conditioned to "resist" someone, like Pavlov's dog salivating at the bell, you will likely learn more about how it all works.
Hard to expect someone to not have a personal issue with a President who threatens his way of life or the things he enjoys.
I also object to the idea that "resistance" is pavlovian. It's not. It's simply a culmination of common sense. Conservatives put an unqualified, senile child into the most powerful office in the world.
Siding with him is worse than pavlovian. It's actually a failure to see logic.
And then there are the actual logical adults who recognize it’s okay to support some of what this administration does while being against other policies. I don’t like Donald Trump but he’s not senile and there are more than a couple things he has done that I support. Likewise there are things he has done that I find despicable. It’s logical for me to think critically and not live in an all or nothing mindset.
If you blanket oppose someone and everything they do without even considering what they're doing, it's Pavlovian.
You want to talk about "a failure to see logic" -- talk to the people who outright admit they know little about it but oppose it because the mere name invokes hostility and automatic opposition.
And when the cost for them goes up due to tariffs, they aren't going to eat that cost... They will pass it on to us. This won't change their bonuses, it will only make the products more expensive for us. Sorry, but that's how it will work in practice.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
I admit, it derailed the thread a bit. I apologize for that.
That said, it's funny how it sounds like your saying that "resisting" him is the same as resisting the issue.
I haven't been "conditioned" about anything.
Everything I dislike about our President I have observed.
That doesn't mean there aren't issues that he and I agree on (there are). But the things we disagree on are deal breakers and the reasons for my indignation.
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It seems like your reading comprehension is off, and you're in full defend trump mode.
Try reading my posts again and ask me specific questions and I'll be happy to clear it up if you like.
You said you dislike Trump and everyone who likes him. You dislike millions of people you do not know and have never talked to. How exactly is my reading comprehension off? I stand by my comment. You should go reread my posts. I think Trump is a conman and a mediocre leader. I however do not think he is some racist bigot who needs to be stopped at all costs like way too many people. I’m defending Trump on this issue because I whole heartedly agree that something must be done to China and this is a peaceful way to bring about change.
Well, we have been screwed over on trade imbalances with very lopsided tariffs, unfavorable for the US, so something must be done. Why should China not pay the same import tariffs that the US has been paying? China takes advantage of everyone because greedy corporations have continued to measure their success and ability to be competitive only by the amount profit they squeeze out. In my opinion, whether or not you have a favorable opinion of the POTUS, this is a can that has been kicked down the road for far too long, and only because it was not politically favorable. I don’t see what the problem is for everyone to drop tariffs if they are truly interested in ‘fair trade.’
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Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
I don't need to know them. I know everything I need to know if someone says they like who Donald Trump is.
However, you PROJECTING onto me whatever issues you had with Obama, party politics, and my opinion on these tariffs (I NEVER expressed one, by the way) is YOUR problem. You brought that up.
And the fact that you can't see that Donald Trump is a frakking racist makes YOU part of the problem.
You can defend Trump's position on an issue and we can be cool (depending on the issue, of course). But when you defend him, you're my enemy. Plain and simple.
Deciding people you don’t know are your enemy because they like someone you don’t is beyond stupid. But I’m intrugued now, specifically what has Trump done as president that makes you say he is without a doubt *racist*. Seems to me that’s just a Democrat dog whistle to prevent minorities from considering supporting him because without those minority voters democrats are done. They know it’s easier to just keep telling everyone he’s racist over and over instead of actually doing anything to fix problems voters want fixed like illegal immigration. I don’t think Trump is a good person. I think he’s a narcissistic ass hole who disturbingly will not admit his mistakes but I have not seen anything that makes me believe he is racist.
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I've never met anyone actually offended by it or hating it but I think a lot of people view it as the meaningless trite platitude it usually is. Conversely, I've never meant anyone looking for a thank you, the general sentiment seems to be "whatever."
A Marine in cammies is a walking coupon though, thank yous in the form of discounts and free stuff get appreciated ;-)
edit to add:
see above
It's more than just labor, China is more agile and can mobilize thousands of technicians to a location in months.
The US doesn't have these capabilities. It takes years just to get a factory going in the US. Way too slow for a tech company.
Also if only 30% percent of products are sold in the U.S., should Apple move 70% of it's US employee's (engineers, R&D scientists, etc) out of the US? No. It doesn't make sense. California are the a hub of hi-tech design, entrepreneurship, venture capital start-ups, entertainment, etc ... all the stuff that Apple is involved in.
Similarly Shenzen, China is a hub for consumer electronic manufacturing - it's made for manufacturing with transportation routes and infrastructure to move 100,000's of skilled workers (not only for Apple) and house them in campuses, and strategic shipping zone/ports for efficiency, and economic policies to make it high competitive at manufacturing.
The best Apple can at the moment is diversify, to other "manufacturing hubs" around the world.
Maybe the US/Mexico can try to design and create one too if they wanted - but that's really fraught with politics. Just a thought.
Its so hilarious how many here are "tariff woke".
Look, you either really care about the economic issue of tariffs or you're just suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome. But don't pretend to care about tariffs when you're really just triggered by the orange man in the white house. Seriously its pathetic and you lose credibility on all of the "issues" you're "woking" on when its just impacted by your hatred of a personality.
The lower paying jobs allows Apple to offer high paying jobs in the US. IF they had lower profit margins I am sure that would be passed on to the employees being paid less. If earnings were less the stock would be less too and with lower earnings the stock would have less investors as higher priced Apple products would mean lower sales numbers.