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rtdunham said:
there's a seasonality to computer sales that isn't acnowledged by your observation. it's not reasonable to expect the first quarter (calendar, not fiscal year) sales to match 4th quarter christmas season sales, imho.

terry

Sure, thats why the financial statement is the way it is. Nethertheless older hardware aint going to sell as well...

Anyway, I am particularly focusing in on the delcine of the imac/emac, which I believe is the imac sales are the ones causing this slump...
 
AAPL actually went UP!

For a very pleasant change, Apple's stock went up after reporting a quarterly profit. It seems like almost every time that Apple has its quarterly reviews, their stock goes down. It doesn't matter if they pulled a profit or not, the stock still went down! That doesn't make much sense to me. "Yes, Apple is doing well and is profitable! Well, you know what that means...they will have crumbled and be bankrupt within 60 days."

Still, good to see another healthy profit. Was there any mention on how much revenue they are pulling in from software sales?
 
Ok, first let me get out this is GOOD news. Always nice to see Apple in the news in a positive light, esp from a financial perspective.

However, IF Apple does not release 3.0 GHz G5's in July it will be VERY BAD press. I'm not saying they have to ship (well by year end they do) but they have to at least announce the will be shipping (before year end). Apple placed the bar there a year ago. All this good iPod news will quickly be forgotten if the COMPUTER maker Apple doesn't deliver as promissed. It is just as bad as not meeting Wall Street expectations.

It only takes one mis-step. Given the delivery problems with G5's on Xserves one has to wonder if we will see the 3 Ghz barrier brought closer this summer. As for those who are arguing about the iPod leading to Mac computer buys, I hate to say it but the 'ol megahertz myth is still alive and well. For the typical computer buyer they see one machine for $989 at 3.0Ghz (Dell dimension 8300 - or $1700 for 3.2 Ghz), and $3000 for 2.0 Ghz. They don't look at the insides save maybe ram. Not hard to see why people don't buy the computers - the typicall consumer that is. We get 3.0 ghz machines and the ipod sales, good financial news should result in a super year for Apple. They miss and it could be a tough 3 quarters.
 
AmigoMac said:
By the way, can anyone tell me how can I buy apple shares from Germany, just want a couple of them ;) ...

Sure, you can buy them as any other stock. The WKN and other details are listed here:
Link
 
Don't panic said:
time to debunk this myth.

N O B O D Y buys hotcakes.

I can't even think of one single place where they sell them.

sheesh

the hotcakes thing dose apply to the british isles where there are these stalls that sell hot cakes at night when theres crowds of people (eg melenium) and then they sell **** loads of them
 
power mac numbers include Xserves

This is the worrying element I feel. And I'm sure Apple are surprised by this. How many did they sell of the Xserve to that Virginia cluster? These figures must be in there somewhere. Unless, the supply problems mean that they're not counted yet, as the figures are on CPU's shipped, not ordered.

When the G5's were announced, all of us (apple included I reckon), thought they would soar, but after the initial buzz of the pre-orders, sales fell off. With all the good news about certain sectors, bio, movies, government, moving towards PowerMacs, it must mean that the creative industry is failing to pick up on new macs. Either because, like my company, they build such robust machines that actually the G4s are still working fine and doing the job, or they are losing market share in the creative industry. It is well known that us mac-types (not necessarily the mac-heads on these page) don't upgrade as quickly and as often as Windows people, because, as I said, the machines last longer, which means apple has to offer a compelling reason to buy the new kit. It has to be significantly better, faster and offer things that our existing machines can't do, or do very slowly. It's a combination of the old Microsoft trick of bringing out software that requires new machines and encouraging developers to write updated software that uses the latest system tweaks and hardware tweaks.

Also in the figures can be detected a slightly worrying fall-off in Europe and Japan, although iPod minis not surfacing worldwide has an effect, but look at year-on-year Japan -29% CPUs, -21% revenue!

And despite all the new software apple is now developing, and the new Filemaker, software is down.

Final thought, poking around in the figures, no-one's really picked up on the true star of the quarter: "Peripherals & Other HW", revenue up from $185m to $272m in two quarters! What's that made up of? Keyboards?

Oh and well done Apple for headline grabbing profit rises.
 
grouse said:
Final thought, poking around in the figures, no-one's really picked up on the true star of the quarter: "Peripherals & Other HW", revenue up from $185m to $272m in two quarters! What's that made up of? Keyboards?

Oh and well done Apple for headline grabbing profit rises.

KBs, mice, iSights, iPod accessories, speakers, batteries etc.
 
and would it include...

airport, bluetooth, airport cards, monitors?

It would be really interesting to see those itemised. Is airport a continuing success, are they shifting a load of monitors, what's the bluetooth take-up like on the mac platform, that sort of thing?

Is it that these individual numbers are kept secret due to not wanting to tell the competition or that we need to find the figures elsewhere?
 
Don't panic said:
time to debunk this myth.

N O B O D Y buys hotcakes.

I can't even think of one single place where they sell them.

sheesh

I guess you never heard of International House of Pancakes or Denny's.

Even dictionary.com recognizes that a hotcake is a pancake.
 
Mini iTunes on Windoze - CTRL+M

dontmatter said:
... and the lack of a version that fits in very small player on your screen, instead of a full sized window...

Just hit CTRL+M or under ADVANCED choose Switch to Mini Player. :cool:

Its the same as the green button on OS X.

RTFM people! :mad:
 
At least they made a profit, but I still don't find the numbers that impressive.

The worlwide computer market grew more than 10% the last 12 months (unit wise that is). But Apple sold only 5% more CPU units. That means that Apple is losing ground even though they sold more... The european market is stagnant despite the G5 PowerMacs and Japan looks like a desaster on the balance sheet...

That's what happens when you are neglecting overseas markets. And more than 40% of revenues are made outside the american continent.

groovebuster
 
groovebuster said:
At least they made a profit, but I still don't find the numbers that impressive.

The worlwide computer market grew more than 10% the last 12 months (unit wise that is). But Apple sold only 5% more CPU units. That means that Apple is losing ground even though they sold more... The european market is stagnant despite the G5 PowerMacs and Japan looks like a desaster on the balance sheet...

That's what happens when you are neglecting overseas markets. And more than 40% of revenues are made outside the american continent.

groovebuster
True, Im glad Apple is doing well in the music industry but powermac sales were 174,000 and that included xserve and powermac G4. Down yet again from last qtr. they are selling in the same qtys as were quicksilvers 3 years ago but the market has gotten bigger every year. I wonder how many G5 powermacs sold? funny how they blurr this. just like Imac sales where they add Emac sales. If Apple showed simply G5 sales and Imac sales im sure most would agree they are dismal. the point groovebuster makes is very valid. smaller and smaller marketshare. Yes Apple did Great with pods but with systems that sit on your desk they are selling less and less in a bigger and bigger market. Ars technica has a article about it and in it they say dont look for a G5 Imac anytime soon. Hope they are wrong. If not then it looks like a 1.5 G4 Imac in the next month or two. Yawn.
 
autrefois said:
So they are now selling more iPods than CPUs. Is this is a first? (with iPods up by so much, I assume so) I'm not sure I like this development...

--EDIT: Just to be clear, I am very happy Apple is doing so well! I just don't want them to de-emphasize computers. I love my iPod, but in my opinion Apple should be primarily concerned with computers, not with the iPod.--

Don't worry. They still make a lot more money selling a computer than an iPod. Plus, getting the iPod into more people's hands gives them increased mind-share which will only help them sell more computers in the long run.

Later, Frank
 
frankly said:
Plus, getting the iPod into more people's hands gives them increased mind-share which will only help them sell more computers in the long run.
So if Ford would start selling bicycles and they would be a huge hit, they would also sell more cars?

I don't think so...

Show me one example when that strategy worked out for a company in the past. Good luck!

The iPod is Windows and Mac compatible. People buy it because it is a cool item. They couldn't care less if Apple also builds computers, since in most cases they already have one.

Think about it... How many of the iPod buyers don't have a computer already, since the iPod is pretty useless without a computer? Exactly! Close to zero.

groovebuster
 
groovebuster said:
So if Ford would start selling bicycles and they would be a huge hit, they would also sell more cars?

I don't think so...

Show me one example when that strategy worked out for a company in the past. Good luck!

The iPod is Windows and Mac compatible. People buy it because it is a cool item. They couldn't care less if Apple also builds computers, since in most cases they already have one.

Think about it... How many of the iPod buyers don't have a computer already, since the iPod is pretty useless without a computer? Exactly! Close to zero.

groovebuster

So true, so many of my Windows/PC friends have iPods, and though they rave about their iPods and think they are the best thing since sliced bread, and all that jazz, they still make fun of me for being a Mac guy!

Even when i bring my lappy to school and they all marvel at how cool it looks and how easy OS X is to use (They seem to be really amazed at the ability to simply drag files to open or move them in OS X or something. I always get stopped when I'm using PhotoShop with them going "wait, u can just drag things like that???" whatever that means) I try and get them to even consider the possiblity that they might switch someday, but they just laugh and say how much Macs suck. (Why, I ask you, WHY?!?!)

I did get my friend to switch to Macs though, and now she is the proud owner of a 12" PowerBook G4, plus, I just sold her my iPod so I could get a mini. But, she is the only exception to the rule! It helps though, that she and I are both in video production and need to use iMovie and occasionally FinalCut a lot, and this way we (not including the teacher) are the only people in any of our teacher's vid. production classes who get to take their work HOME with them! :)
 
groovebuster said:
So if Ford would start selling bicycles and they would be a huge hit, they would also sell more cars?

I don't think so...

Show me one example when that strategy worked out for a company in the past. Good luck!

The iPod is Windows and Mac compatible. People buy it because it is a cool item. They couldn't care less if Apple also builds computers, since in most cases they already have one.

Think about it... How many of the iPod buyers don't have a computer already, since the iPod is pretty useless without a computer? Exactly! Close to zero.

groovebuster

You are the one who doesn't get it. They also released iTunes for Windows and people who buy an iPod can see how nice Apple software is and see how nice the music store is. Yes, the people already have computers but the largest number of people buying new computers are those replacing old ones.

If people fall in love with their iPod and iTunes then you don't think at least a small percentage of them is going to check out a Mac the next time they buy a computer?

I never said that they would sell a new Mac to every person that bought an iPod but you are being naive by thinking that none of them will think about a Mac after using some Apple products.

Also, your Ford bicycle analogy falls flat. The iPod is a computing device and iTunes is Apple software.

And, I have many friends that bought Macs after they saw how nice mine were. Getting them in the door is the hardest part.

Later, Frank
 
LaMerVipere said:
You're not going to erase 20 years of anti-Mac sentiment with a couple years old mp3 player. :rolleyes:

You do realize that not everyone that uses a PC hates the Mac, don't you??? Perhaps in the circle of confused little people that you hang out with this isn't so but in the rest of the world people try new things all the time. Again, please pay attention to the fact that I am in no way claiming that the iPod is going to cause a revolution. However, if it causes just a handful of people to buy Macs that weren't thinking about it before that is still a handful that are new customers. If you really think that not one person will be persuaded to check out a Mac after using the iPod and iTunes then you are just kidding yourself.

Later, Frank
 
frankly said:
Perhaps in the circle of confused little people that you hang out with this isn't so but in the rest of the world people try new things all the time.

I take offense to that! No reason to go personal. Perhaps in your circle of confused little people, a person and their willingness to try new things is defined by their choice of computer hardware, if so, sad times for you. :rolleyes:
 
LaMerVipere said:
I take offense to that! No reason to go personal. Perhaps in your circle of confused little people, a person and their willingness to try new things is defined by their choice of computer hardware, if so, sad times for you. :rolleyes:

Whatever. Reread your post and look at the icon you chose. That is why I responded the way I did.
 
frankly said:
You are the one who doesn't get it.
:rolleyes: I see...

frankly said:
They also released iTunes for Windows and people who buy an iPod can see how nice Apple software is and see how nice the music store is. Yes, the people already have computers but the largest number of people buying new computers are those replacing old ones.
Having a strategy is one thing, if it works out is something totally different...

The iPod is an absolutely separate item. When people are using iTunes and buy music in the music store, they never get to the Apple Home Page and see other Apple products. The iPod + iTunes Music Store are a closed system. Apple sold more than 1.5 million iPods the last two quarters. Let's say half of them was to Windows users... So where are all the switchers driven to Apple by their iPods, considering that a PC gets updated every 3 years statistically? That would mean 250,000 updated PCs by iPod users in the last 6 months, or 125.000 users per quarter. Let's assume 20% (It will never be that many anyway) consider a switch to Apple, that would be 25.000 people! How amazing! The number is so small, you will not even notice it on the balance sheet... :rolleyes:

frankly said:
If people fall in love with their iPod and iTunes then you don't think at least a small percentage of them is going to check out a Mac the next time they buy a computer?
Again... the number of people maybe switching to Macs because of the iPod is so small, that the effect is hard to see on the balance sheet for a very long time to come. It's simple math. My cousin is an iPod user and besides huge quality problems with his iPod (he said he would never buy anything from Apple anymore in his entire life-time), he never considered a switch just because he has an iPod and he never will. Maybe 10% do, but that makes only around 12,000 people per quarter worldwide. Very impressing! ;)

frankly said:
I never said that they would sell a new Mac to every person that bought an iPod but you are being naive by thinking that none of them will think about a Mac after using some Apple products.
I am naive!?!? Look in the mirror buddy... :D

frankly said:
Also, your Ford bicycle analogy falls flat. The iPod is a computing device and iTunes is Apple software.
I am sorry for you if you don't get it... and we were talking about the iPod, not the iTunes Software that is just part of the iPod package.

frankly said:
And, I have many friends that bought Macs after they saw how nice mine were. Getting them in the door is the hardest part.
That's funny. I always hear people claiming that. I am a Mac user myself and I switched exactly one person in all the years: my wife. And that was a pretty hard piece of work! ;) All the other Mac users I know were already Mac lovers before or always wanted a Mac anyway but couldn't afford one.

groovebuster
 
Dont Hurt Me said:
True, Im glad Apple is doing well in the music industry but powermac sales were 174,000 and that included xserve and powermac G4. Down yet again from last qtr. they are selling in the same qtys as were quicksilvers 3 years ago but the market has gotten bigger every year. I wonder how many G5 powermacs sold? funny how they blurr this. just like Imac sales where they add Emac sales. If Apple showed simply G5 sales and Imac sales im sure most would agree they are dismal. the point groovebuster makes is very valid. smaller and smaller marketshare. Yes Apple did Great with pods but with systems that sit on your desk they are selling less and less in a bigger and bigger market. Ars technica has a article about it and in it they say dont look for a G5 Imac anytime soon. Hope they are wrong. If not then it looks like a 1.5 G4 Imac in the next month or two. Yawn.

I knew you'd have something to say about this, DHM. I saw the profit figures, and the first thing to come to mind was, "Apple's making money and still turning a profit while other manufacturers aren't. What's DHM going to find to pick on?"

Apple is making money! Get this through your head, man. The CEO that you've repeatedly claimed is killing Apple and should be gotten rid of? He's taken our favorite computer company from being massively in debt to be beind debt free and beyond. In 1997, Apple was in a death spiral, plummeting out of control, in debt, overcomplicated on the product line, and holding onto an OS that desperately needed an update.

Enter Steve Jobs, the prodigal son of Apple Computers.

Seven years later, the stock is strong, we have a fully modernized and amazing operating system, computers that are competitive on every front but your pet subject (gaming), Apple is out of debt, and they're fully allied with the company that not only owns the most patents in the world, but also files for the most per year. IBM is licensing the processes that they're putting in the PowerPC 900 series, selling SOI to AMD and nVidia while fabbing for both. Those NV6800s that I'm sure you're drooling over are manufactured by IBM machinery, on SOI 300mm wafers (another IBM strength), and thus benefitting from the same technology that is a generation behind what IBM is doing for us.

The next PowerPC 9xx will be using SSOI, something that no other chip manufacturer has yet. It will be concurrently designed with the Power5, arguably the most advanced chip on the market, and will benefit from the total redesign that IBM is applying to their own materials.

Second quarters are weak in technology. Everyone knows that, and every single one of you people that are grousing and carrying on that Apple hasn't live up to their promises have forgotten something: The year isn't up until at least WWDC (if you're strict) or the end of August (if you're somewhat lenient). People are getting bent out of shape over nebulous, unaccredited stories on a website. What happened to taking what you read on the 'net with a huge grain of salt, doing a little critical thinking, and having an ounce of patience. Yes, Motorola burnt us in the past, but that doesn't mean that it's going to happen again, and this time we're not on a chip that's a jumped-up embedded processor.

Oh, and I wouldn't care if the killed the iMac line tomorrow. Yes, all-in-ones are a hallmark of Apple, but maybe the form factor is getting a little long in the tooth, especially on such heat-intensive systems. Apple is known for wowing the world with what they do, and I'm waiting to see what happens next. Three years ago, if you'd told me that Apple would basically own the digital music distribution business, I'd have laughed.

Not so funny now, is it?

And while some may seem them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do.

Think different.
 
thatwendigo said:
Seven years later, the stock is strong, we have a fully modernized and amazing operating system, computers that are competitive on every front...[/b]
... and nobody buys them!

Good that Apple has no debts anymore and nobody thinks that Steve Jobs didn't do a great job in getting Apple out from intensive care. But Apple is not selling fruits on a local market. It's selling hight tech computers on a worldwide market and the market share is substantial in the IT market in order to survive.

With 4.6 billion US$ in the bank Apple could pay all their employees by the interest they get and stop developing any products at all...

The only reason why Apple is still drawing little profits is, that it is in a closed market for their OS/Hardware combination. They don't have any direct competitors and just take the prices they need for survival. That's a luxury no other computer manufacturer has. But it still doesn't change the problem: a shrinking market share (even with constant CPU sales) makes you insignificant on the long run.

groovebuster

P.S.: I really wonder why people get so upset just because some of their fellow Mac users are not worshipping Apple and Steve Joby all the time and are a little bit more critical about Apple and the future of this company.
 
groovebuster said:
... and nobody buys them!

Riiight... So 170-something thousand people is the same as nobody?

Good that Apple has no debts anymore and nobody thinks that Steve Jobs didn't do a great job in getting Apple out from intensive care. But Apple is not selling fruits on a local market. It's selling hight tech computers on a worldwide market and the market share is substantial in the IT market in order to survive.

Kind of funny how everyone keeps harping on needing marketshare to survive, when Apple's not been a market leader since the early 80s, and yet they're still going strong, while other startups that are playing in the safer, cheaper PC world are crumbling.

The only reason why Apple is still drawing little profits is, that it is in a closed market for their OS/Hardware combination. They don't have any direct competitors and just take the prices they need for survival. That's a luxury no other computer manufacturer has. But it still doesn't change the problem: a shrinking market share (even with constant CPU sales) makes you insignificant on the long run.

Yep, not significant at all. They've only been leading everyone else around for how long, now? How many of the major software groups develop products for OS X? What important, daily things can you not do on a mac, just as easily as on a PC? For that matter, what professional tasks can you not do on a mac?

Here's a hint: The list of lacks is short to nonexistent. The list of important developers isn't.

P.S.: I really wonder why people get so upset just because some of their fellow Mac users are not worshipping Apple and Steve Joby all the time and are a little bit more critical about Apple and the future of this company.

Reasoned disagreement is one thing. Blind and selfish whining isn't, and that's all that DHM ever offers to any discussion about Apple. They don't make his dream machine, so they suck. They don't have 9800XTs, so they suck. They have economic issues other companies don't have to deal with, so they suck.

It gets old, watching someone who can't even comprehend the basics of what they're attacking. It's the same reason I grew tired of the 'Christians' around me thinking that anything they didn't like was obviously Satanic. While a prevalent human trait, it's annoying.
 
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