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Well, that is a poor excuse since a lot of their software problems end up being ridiculously obvious issues hours after a public release and not strange fringe cases found weeks or months later. Also Apple has a beta program set up months in advance that gets into the "public" users hands and yet does not identify many glaring release issues.

Apple also controls their own hardware and has a limited range of product variations to target their software on so when Android or Windows can release on a much wider set of hardware and has greater initial quality and performance then many recent Apple OS releases, it just speaks volumes to the actual level of quality of Apple's development processes.

Lastly a trillion dollar valued company should not have a "small" development team incapable of delivering better initial release quality, not for something a prominent as the software required for the hardware that made them a trillion dollar company. I don't think this comes down to incompetent developers, but I think obviously there is a culture of poor executive leadership and overall denial at Apple where they think they are still producing the kind of quality they were known for back when Steve Jobs used to chew the heads off his development team when the color of an icon didn't come out right.

Excusing Apple for the plethora of iOS and Mac OS release bugs is nonsense. The company wants more money for their products and so my expectations of initial quality is, and should be, far higher then the average software company. If Apple wants to sell $300 phones full of bugs then my expectations will match the value of the phone. But sell me a $1300 phone and it is quickly broken or crippled by the next iOS patch or major release is inexcusable.

Mr. Ballmer, your basketball team stinks.
 
Well, that is a poor excuse since a lot of their software problems end up being ridiculously obvious issues hours after a public release and not strange fringe cases found weeks or months later. Also Apple has a beta program set up months in advance that gets into the "public" users hands and yet does not identify many glaring release issues.

This is a beta version, and as you fix bugs and tweak code for optimal performance, new bugs can be introduced. That is why there are multiple releases.

If you are this upset that there is an issue with a beta version, perhaps you should not be part of the testing. You shouldn't be installing these on a daily driver device to start with and if you do that is your own decision.
 
Excusing Apple for the plethora of iOS and Mac OS release bugs is nonsense. The company wants more money for their products and so my expectations of initial quality is, and should be, far higher then the average software company. If Apple wants to sell $300 phones full of bugs then my expectations will match the value of the phone. But sell me a $1300 phone and it is quickly broken or crippled by the next iOS patch or major release is inexcusable.

Right on man. The number of beta releases seems to keep going up with every new iOs release and it seems like every final of release of a new ios version gets buggier.

Losing Jobs and getting rid of Forstall, which probably never would have happened with Jobs still around, definitely had a bad impact on current ios. Though it doesn't have the features of current ios the intuitiveness and stability of ios 6 is still my favourite version to date.

There is no bigger Apple announcement that I would want to hear than Forstall returning to run the ios team again. Dude knew how a mobile operating system should work.
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This is a beta version, and as you fix bugs and tweak code for optimal performance, new bugs can be introduced. That is why there are multiple releases.

If you are this upset that there is an issue with a beta version, perhaps you should not be part of the testing. You shouldn't be installing these on a daily driver device to start with and if you do that is your own decision.

He was upset with the current state of Apple software in general. Final releases have been full of bugs for the past few years now as well.
 
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Right on man. The number of beta releases seems to keep going up with every new iOs release and it seems like every final of release of a new ios version gets buggier.

Losing Jobs and getting rid of Forstall, which probably never would have happened with Jobs still around, definitely had a bad impact on current ios. Though it doesn't have the features of current ios the intuitiveness and stability of ios 6 is still my favourite version to date.
Adding more features and more hardware should decrease the number of bugs. </s>
 
I don't think this comes down to incompetent developers, but I think obviously there is a culture of poor executive leadership and overall denial at Apple where they think they are still producing the kind of quality they were known for back when Steve Jobs used to chew the heads off his development team when the color of an icon didn't come out right.
Snow Leopard was a dumpster fire when it was released, deleting user data and all, but let's ignore that.
 
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There is no bigger Apple announcement that I would want to hear than Forstall returning to run the ios team again. Dude knew how a mobile operating system should work.

You mean that guy that imposed dated and inconsistent skeuomorphism on us? The guy that allowed a completely butchered Maps service to be released and wouldn't apologize for the poor state it was in, leaving Tim to do it?

That would be the one Apple announcement you would want to hear more than any other?
 
Hoping the bluetooth connection issues are fixed. I was only able to use bluetooth audio in my car if I turned off Sync Contacts. It was working on all the betas before the last one. Hoping to not get the red number saying I still need an update. I hated that on beta 2 or whatever one that was.
 
This is asked EVERY SINGLE BETA! Yawn
Answer is NO, don’t run beta on a main device if you don’t want to deal with issues, poor battery life, apps not working, slow performance, etc!


You asking the question in itself is a sign that the "beta process" may not be for you....o_O
I only asked it because it's so late in the summer. I used to install betas on day one several years ago but stopped doing that because I was tired of jacking around with it. Was just wondering if it was pretty smooth now.
 
You mean that guy that imposed dated and inconsistent skeuomorphism on us? The guy that allowed a completely butchered Maps service to be released and wouldn't apologize for the poor state it was in, leaving Tim to do it?

That would be the one Apple announcement you would want to hear more than any other?

Maps was rushed and only brought on because they didn't want to renew the agreement with google maps because of possible ads or something. Skeuomorphism can be changed. I think Jobs was big on Skeuomorphism as it was pretty prominent in mac OS before Forstall worked on ios.

Stability and an intuitive OS > then crying about skeuomorphism.
 
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Ok i'm waiting a bit to see if anyone has issues. I almost pulled the trigger on beta 7 and then apple pulled the update.
I did the same one day ago but I was a bit late on checking the update, then it was pulled. Now, I think I can do it again tonight.
 
Adding more features and more hardware should decrease the number of bugs. </s>


Thanks for the sarcasm. I hate getting thoughtful responses to a post. </s>

So it's impossible to add features without bugs? Isn't that what the zillion of betas that Apple now releases is for?
 
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Maps was rushed and online brought on because they didn't want to renew the agreement with google maps because of possible ads or something. Skeuomorphism can be changed. I think Jobs was big on Skeuomorphism as it was pretty prominent in mac OS before Forstall worked on ios.

Stability and an intuitive OS > then crying about skeuomorphism.

No one is crying about it. It was a dated feel and provided for inconsistent experiences across the OS/apps. Granted, feelings towards skeuomorphism is largely subjective, but I think the majority of people, myself included, do not want a return to that. More importantly, Forstall's unwillingness to go to bat for his company and for his team with the release of Maps speaks volumes.

It's interesting that people are engaging in selective memory when it comes to major software releases; yesterday's wrinkle is definitely not unique to the post-Forstall era. Plenty such things happened under his watch, too. I know it's comforting for a lot of people to think that a return to old would eliminate all bugs and release pains, but that's simply not the case.
 
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Thanks for the sarcasm. I hate getting thoughtful responses to a post. </s>

So it's impossible to add features without bugs? Isn't that what the zillion of betas that Apple now releases is for?
It's certainly possible but rare.

One common misconception about software development is that "throwing more resources would solve the problem."

Let's say you are solving a complex math problem that requires 4 hours for one person to solve. Can you speed it up by adding more people of similar skills? And if it can be split up, is the answer more likely to be correct? The answer is maybe at best.

Adding new software features, such as Screen Time, can be split up and developed by multiple engineers. But at some point, you will hit the point of diminishing return.

One lone exception is testing. More people testing the feature, more likely they will uncover issues quickly. But that does not necessarily mean all the areas and use cases can be tested within desired timeframe.

iOS Developer Beta 6 was released on August 6. iOS Developer Beta 7 was released a week later on August 13. Given the sheer amount of features, fixes, and hardware, it is not possible for Apple to internally test thoroughly in 1 week. That's where developers and public beta testers came in. And in the case of developer beta 7, adding more testers certainly helped Apple to uncover the issue quickly and fix the issue in 2 days.

As the lingo goes, the Developer Beta "worked as designed" in this case. And frankly, iOS 12 has been the most stable beta release that I can remember (and I have been an iOS developer for a long time).
 
i think Apple needs to hire more competent developers how can these programmers write code with so many bugs just saying


They are called BETA Tests. They have bugs by the very nature. It's a test so they can find and fix the bugs. It's how competent people develop software.
 
Hoping the bluetooth connection issues are fixed. I was only able to use bluetooth audio in my car if I turned off Sync Contacts. It was working on all the betas before the last one. Hoping to not get the red number saying I still need an update. I hated that on beta 2 or whatever one that was.
I have got the red number update on the latest PB, can’t get rid of it tried reboot, force reboot ........
 
No one is crying about it. It was a dated feel and provided for inconsistent experiences across the OS/apps. Granted, feelings towards skeuomorphism is largely subjective, but I think the majority of people, myself included, do not want a return to that. More importantly, Forstall's unwillingness to go to bat for his company and for his team with the release of Maps speaks volumes.

It's interesting that people are engaging in selective memory when it comes to major software releases; yesterday's wrinkle is definitely not unique to the post-Forstall era. Plenty such things happened under his watch, too. I know it's comforting for a lot of people to think that a return to old would eliminate all bugs and release pains, but that's simply not the case.


If you can remember specific examples that would help sway me maybe but I don't really remember any other than Maps which isn't really the OS it's one app that you could, and most people still, replace with a 3rd party one. I'll still hold to my theory that he and his team weren't given enough time and rushed apple maps out because they were forcing google maps out but I'm not going to beat this to death. I kind of don't blame him for not taking the blame if they put an unrealistic time frame to complete it. I also never said he was a saint. From what I've heard he was Jobs Jr. but his OS was rock solid and at the time nothing could come close to being as good.

It's all subjective but I personally have found since ios 7 it's less intuitive and considerably more buggy and glitchy. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way but I also know those that are such fans of a brand or product will defend it no matter what.

I have no allegiance to any brand so I call it as I see it.

If it helps judging by leaks it looks like the pixel is taking a big step backwards this year and Android fragmentation and manufacture skins aren't good either. See I'm impartial. ;)
 
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You mean that guy that imposed dated and inconsistent skeuomorphism on us? The guy that allowed a completely butchered Maps service to be released and wouldn't apologize for the poor state it was in, leaving Tim to do it?

That would be the one Apple announcement you would want to hear more than any other?

I have no idea what the heck skeuomorphism means but I am going out on a limb that I agree with it and say that I endorse this message!
 
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iOS 12 beta 7 removed the Group FaceTime feature that has been present in iOS 12 since the update was first introduced in June. Apple has decided to delay Group FaceTime for now and reintroduce it in an iOS 12 update set to be released later this fall.

Group FaceTime, one of iOS 12's major new features, is designed to allow users to chat with up to 32 people at once.

Though Group FaceTime will no longer be available when iOS 12 launches,...

Do you fellas proof read your copy?
 
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Ok i'm waiting a bit to see if anyone has issues. I almost pulled the trigger on beta 7 and then apple pulled the update.

I'm having trouble with AirPods staying connected for more than 10 seconds. Audio is switching back to the phone and then once even back to the AirPods without me doing anything. This is before and after I rebooted the phone. I should have stayed with the beta I was on (Dev 6).
 
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