Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Based on my personal experience, Yosemite was pretty solid.
I suspect, El Capitan works well with certain models like MacBook Pros. But systems built in smaller numbers like the Mac Pro have a difficult time. My cMP 5,1 is seeing a lot of issues. I file the bugs and they are closed as duplicates. I suspect, smaller volume models do not get the care and feeding in development and QA as higher runners.
I do think that something has changed. Team allocation, size of teams, people on the job, or something. You cannot QA away deeper problems in the way the software is produced.
I used to run for days without reboot. Now Mail, Contacts, Calendar hang together and just force quitting is not enough, I have to reboot. Spotlight indexing keeps crashing in the back. And because of all of this, TimeMachine ends up with corrupted volumes and has to start over. What a mess.
I agree. El Cap has been sloppy and laggy. Yosemite was rock solid. I'm kind of hoping Apple will do 10.12 this fall, and that it'll go back to the solidness we saw with Yosemite.
[doublepost=1464045288][/doublepost]
10.7 dropped the PowerPC, not having to develop two binaries certainly made things easier which probably justified a more severe cut of older Macs than usual.
10.6 dropped PowerPC, not 10.7.
 
A 10.11.6 update. That was unexpected.
Not really, almost all updates to 10.11.0 have come at a faster pace. The 10.x.5 update coming only 7.5 months after the 10.x.0 release with El Capitan, whereas it coming 10 months after the 10.x.0 release with Yosemite has put the writing on the wall already for a 10.11.6 release.
[doublepost=1464045562][/doublepost]
10.6 dropped PowerPC, not 10.7.
Sorry, 10.7 dropped support for PowerPC applications running via Rosetta on Intel machines.
 
I think the statistics say otherwise. https://www.netmarketshare.com/oper...spx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0&qpob=ColumnName+DESC - I've used those figures to calculate share figures for each platform separately.

Among other things, you'll see that El Capitan has the largest share of OS X, more than three times the share of Mavericks. Yosemite has double the share of Mavericks. That works out to 41% for El Capitan, 26% for Yosemite (67% combined), 13% for Mavericks, 6% for Mountain Lion, 7% for Lion, 4% for Snow Leopard, 0.5% for Leopard, and 0.2% for Tiger.

Meantime, over at Microsoft, Win 7 (54%) still has three times the share of Win 10 (17%), and Win 10 has less than 50% more share than XP, which was released in 2001 (17% to 12%)!

81% of Mac users are on the three most recent versions of the OS, while just 32% of Windows users are on the three most recent versions. Snow Leopard and Windows 7 were both released in 2009. Win 7 is in use on 54% of Windows machines, Snow Leopard is in use on 4% of Macs.

Personally, I never pay attention to user ratings of OSes - they're never better than middling, because so many people hate change. As with most Internet polling, people with negative opinions are far more likely to vote than those who are satisfied.

New-version adoption rates have gone through the roof since Apple moved to the free update model with Mavericks. I don't recall there being hordes of Mac users running out to buy the latest OS X DVDs. They had to pay, after all! If I was to judge by postings here at MacRumors, nobody paid to upgrade from Snow Leopard to Lion or from there to Mountain Lion (although the numbers say otherwise). It was all, "Don't upgrade, Snow Leopard is perfect!" (Well, you see that with every new OS release.) Among other things, free distribution was designed to bring all those "stragglers" along, and it seems to have worked pretty well. Large numbers upgraded directly from Snow Leopard to Mavericks.

It can be a mistake to project your particular preferences upon the rest of the public.

I'm sure you're quite aware that nearly every version of OS X is considered "the best" by a particular constituency. I find it particularly interesting that many of the negative comments in this thread have had to do with the appearance of the OS, rather than the technology. Some people care more for appearances than others - I'll take tech/features over appearance every day of the year.

I still don't understand what "flat" really means, but I'm not a graphic artist, so I'm not dialed into that particular lingo. Everywhere I look, I see drop shadows, translucence, and other features that add a greater sense of depth. The Apple icons on the dock aren't monolithic blocks of color, there are gradients everywhere.

Try using Yosemite or El Capitan on a MacBook Air with TN display, rather than a Mac with IPS display for a few hours. Your eyes will scream.

Then try using Mavericks (or earlier) on the same device for a few hours. Your eyes will feel appreciate the change.
 
I hope not. There is too much missing in 10.11 already.

Interesting that people believe that a "New" or the "Next" OS will be better than the previous, as if they had created a new version from scratch. That is why Apple puts out now a "New" OS every year with people thinking that "New" is better. It seems they will just leave off where they were with the previous OS and add "new" features that are still in beta and not ready. This is why we have so many issues with the "New" yearly OS.

Why not just get the current one stable and ride that one out for awhile. Stability in a time of uncertainty is better. But Apple has trained their fans to believe the next is better. We have seem this not to be true. Maybe they can push this phiosphy with iPhones and I watches, but since the OS and computers are a mature product now and is needed for production, it is better for a stable release that "just works".

Mac sales will not improve because of a "hip" OS with new features. What will improve Mac sales is a "cool" or "hip" hardware design, latest tech inside, and a stable OS that has minimum bugs and fast. This is the formula for a successful computer.

Why does Apple believe it is all about fancy new OS tricks? The Mac customer desires more of a stable OS, but could get fancy with design and inner specs...
 
Installed it and it stopped recognizing my portable hard drive. So I went back to the released version by doing a Recovery and then Time Machine recovery.
 
Since every software release since the beginning of time has been "buggy" to those who do have issues, I'd like some hard numbers on that, too (not that we're going to get them from Apple). Since my experience with Yosemite and El Capitan is anything but "buggy as hell," what is it about my situation and yours that is different? Which of us is having the typical user experience, which may be an outlier?

How often is, "Buggy as hell" an assessment of personal experience, and how often is it, "I have one bug, somebody else on the internet reported a different bug, yet another person on the internet reported yet another bug..." And among all those "bug reports," how many of them are actual code faults, and how many can be traced to something like a corrupted plist file in user data, an outdated third-party kext, a Preferences checkbox, etc.? (I had a "bug" the other day - my system was certainly not following a particular preference that had been checked off - I toggled the preference, and everything worked as expected after that - apparently, there was something wrong with the plist - was it due to a code bug, a read/write error, an app or system crash... since I didn't fully diagnose the situation I'll never know, and I'm not about to pin blame.)

All this "patch my version as well as the new version" stuff doesn't work for me. It takes more resources, not fewer, to patch multiple versions. If you think Apple can't keep up with current quality control, how would they manage with that many more versions under revision?

The update is free, it runs on your system. Nobody's trying to extort money from you by withholding the patch. The "extortion" has to do with Apple's interest in embedding everyone in the current version of the ecosystem and embracing the multi-Apple-product lifestyle. But the updates are free whether or not you buy other Apple products, or use the new features.

You're trying to make a point that many people including me are total newbies who misunderstand bugs for the wrong setting preferences, corrupted plist etc. Let me tell you that I have been using OS X for 10 years and I know what I say. If you want then I can list some bugs which are not caused by my strange preferences, or corrupted plists etc. In fact I have reported them and every time I hear from Apple that they are aware of the issue and working on it (for last two years). So stop being arrogant that you understand everything and since you have no problem the OS X is bug free. In fact if it was bug free then Apple shouldn't even try to release any of these updates...


My post was in response to the misplaced enthusiasm on adoption statistics and I was merely pointing out that it means nothing. People switch to a new OS X for variety of reasons and higher adoption of a new OS is definitely not a proof that the new OS is better!

Your ranting about that updates are free and "extortion" has to do with Apple's interest etc. makes no sense. Apple charge a heavy premium on their products and these so-called free updates aren't free, one pays for them when one buys hardware from Apple. Sometime one is also forced to a run a new OS on a new hardware like my 5K iMac needs Yosemite or later. Yeah, it takes more resources to patch up all versions of the OS X, but then Apple should make the current OS X bug free before releasing a new OS X. With this current cycle of OS X releases, it takes almost half a year more before the new release becomes actually usable (not too many bugs but still many). And I find this situation juxtaposed with Apple's constant ranting about the so-called quality and user experience...
 
Come on Apple, this is boring. Where's all of the viruses and crashes and vulnerabilities in OS X? People want Macs to be more like Windows! They expect a confusing and convoluted user experience. They expect every "program" to look and behave differently. They expect to have to dig through 6 layers of settings just to find that one that will make their program work the way that they think it should. They expect to have to sift through 1000 features that they'll never use. They promise to never update their programs because if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?

On a serious note, Apple, thank you for making a stable, reliable, easy-to-use operating system that works really well. Thank you for adhering closely to a high standard of user interface design. Even though you're not perfect, and you're often distracted by misguided opportunities to "advance" the platform, you've managed to deliver the goods time and time again. I encourage you to keep that flame alive, to never forget why Macs are so loved, and to continue to deliver only the best experience that you can.

(cough)iTunes(cough)
 
People (we Mac users) fail to acknowledge that Apple intentionally cripples all OS versions to create dissatisfaction. Not outright loathing, but just enough irritation to keep all users wanting more.

Apples' biggest nightmare (or at least one of their many) is to create another Snow Leopard type OS that is stable and pleasant to use.

Why? Because they've learned from that experiment that a very large user base won't upgrade again if they finally have a great OS. They also won't upgrade their hardware either... until it dies 10-15 years later or more.

Nope. We'll NEVER see the likes of SL ever again. It'll always be fix-this but break-that forever and ever and ever.
 
I still don't understand what "flat" really means, but I'm not a graphic artist, so I'm not dialed into that particular lingo. Everywhere I look, I see drop shadows, translucence, and other features that add a greater sense of depth. The Apple icons on the dock aren't monolithic blocks of color, there are gradients everywhere.
This is a timeline of all the "traffic light" buttons in Mac OS X. Top to bottom: Public Beta-10.2.8, 10.3-10.4.11, 10.5-10.58, 10.6-10.6.8 10.7-10.9.5, 10.10-present.
TrafficLightTimeline.png

Notice how the last set compares with all the others, much less of a 3D look and only a tiny amount of depth. This is what people look at and immediately think "flat".

The traffic lights are by no means the extent of it, however I do agree people have overreacted. Of course OS X still has depth in all the same places, just not as much as it used to.
 
People (we Mac users) fail to acknowledge that Apple intentionally cripples all OS versions to create dissatisfaction. Not outright loathing, but just enough irritation to keep all users wanting more.

Apples' biggest nightmare (or at least one of their many) is to create another Snow Leopard type OS that is stable and pleasant to use.

Why? Because they've learned from that experiment that a very large user base won't upgrade again if they finally have a great OS. They also won't upgrade their hardware either... until it dies 10-15 years later or more.

Nope. We'll NEVER see the likes of SL ever again. It'll always be fix-this but break-that forever and ever and ever.

Releasing everything 70% complete just for the sake of releasing something then never returning to finish the rest. Very disappointing
 
Interesting that people believe that a "New" or the "Next" OS will be better than the previous, as if they had created a new version from scratch. That is why Apple puts out now a "New" OS every year with people thinking that "New" is better. It seems they will just leave off where they were with the previous OS and add "new" features that are still in beta and not ready. This is why we have so many issues with the "New" yearly OS.

That is a deliberate design strategy on Apple's part. I wrote about it in my previous post. And yes, new has so far always been better in case of OS X.

Why not just get the current one stable and ride that one out for awhile.

Because that would invalidate Apple's position as innovation leader. At the same time, that is also kind of what they are doing, but in a reasonable way. 10.10 represents a new-gen overhaul of OS X and Aqua, they intend to 'ride that one out for a while'. I think you are also confused abut how OS X releases work. Rather then thinking of them as a 'whole new OS', think of them as incremental refinements. Other OSes have concepts of service packs etc. However, OS X is not a bare-bones OS — it is a very rich OS that combines rich API frameworks with a vast collection of internal utilities and features.

Mac sales will not improve because of a "hip" OS with new features. What will improve Mac sales is a "cool" or "hip" hardware design, latest tech inside, and a stable OS that has minimum bugs and fast.

It seems like you have some very opinionated believes about what customers want and how things should be. Why not start a computing company yourself? With your insights you should be successful in no time. However, please don't join Apple. I really enjoy what they are doing and I don't want them to be dragged back to boring niche OS that nobody but a bunch of people with specialised software cares about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hhmora
Here are my problems with your post:

Clip Book:
  • Both already exist
Clock App:
  • With easy-to-use browser based alternatives, there's no need for this whatsoever

Contacts:
  • How would you do that w/o screwing with the UI?
  • Why do you need multiple pics? The whole point is to act as an identifier for that one person
  • I'll give you larger font sizes
  • How do map snippets help in any way when there's a one click link to the location in Maps?
  • Custom Fields - that's what the notes section is for. Or the Notes app
  • I mean, ok, it's marginally useful but search works too
FaceTime:
  • If you can't do that already then sure, I suppose that's useful (although I haven't heard of FT Audio being used much)
Feedback App:
  • If you sign up for the betas, then you automatically get the Feedback App. For others, Apple's website exists. I'm not convinced it's necessary, but ok
Finder:
  • This would be useful
  • As would this
  • Tags exist for this purpose already
  • Pretty sure that you can already do this
Grab and Image Capture: I'm pretty unfamiliar w/ this so I can't comment

Mail:
  • Sure
  • I'm honestly not sure how this is at all useful in email.
  • I am a student and I've never seen a table be used in any email correspondence from anyone. Ever.
  • Sure
Maps:
  • Why? This isn't a mobile device. If you're using Maps on an actual computer, it's expected that you would have Wifi. This seems like something that should be in the iOS 10 wishlist.

Messages:
  • You already don't need to leave Messages. OS X is a multi-window OS...
  • No. That's highly inconvenient. There's a reason the mobile way is on mobile
Notes: Sure

Photos: Sure

Uninstall:
  • No. There's a reason that preferences stay - the idea is that if you reinstall the app you don't have to go through the setup process again. AppCleaner is good enough for those who want to do more
Window Management:
  • It's called opt-green
  • Apple already explained why they got rid of the separate button. I agree with them
  • It already does this
  • It already does this
  • It already does this
  • Sure, that's useful
Siri: Siri doesn't exist on the Mac. If you mean Dictation, then I find Dictation to be really accurate

Health App: This is impossible due to the severe privacy restrictions Apple places on Health Data

Secure Empty Trash: While I too am annoyed, I'd read this to realize why it was removed in the first place - tl;dr: it didn't work reliably on older devices for specific situations

Overall it's certainly a list, but I'm not sure why a) these couldn't be put in on point updates for El Capitan or b) why most of these are useful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TMRJIJ
  • Like
Reactions: grahamperrin
hard drive

GPT? What file system?

10.10 represents a new-gen overhaul of OS X and Aqua, they intend to 'ride that one out for a while'. I

Moreover I think it represented a move towards the possibility of a single OS in lieu of OS X plus iOS. Apple painted itself into a corner from which any future escape will be inescapably messy.

Why does Apple believe it is all about fancy new OS tricks? The Mac customer desires more of a stable OS, but could get fancy with design and inner specs.

Some types of fanciness have relatively short-term appeal. Apple - Press Info - Apple Announces DVI to ADC Adapter /cough

There's more, but it doesn't belong in a software topic.

Here are my problems with your post:

The post was in a different topic, can you move your problems to that topic? Thanks.
 
GPT? What file system?



Moreover I think it represented a move towards the possibility of a single OS in lieu of OS X plus iOS. Apple painted itself into a corner from which any future escape will be inescapably messy.



Some types of fanciness have relatively short-term appeal. Apple - Press Info - Apple Announces DVI to ADC Adapter /cough

There's more, but it doesn't belong in a software topic.



The post was in a different topic, can you move your problems to that topic? Thanks.
No, I won't. My point, which apparently wasn't made clear, is that these so-called 'features', aren't worth an extended development process, nor do they necessarily need to wait for 10.12.
 
Below, I was surprised by the spaces in the identifier used by softwareupdate(8).

AFAIR last time I noticed a space, it was contributory to failures for a small percentage of testers who who updated without the command line. But that was years ago and I'm out of the loop, so maybe Apple fixed/enhanced the routine.

screen-shot-2016-05-23-at-20-40-28-png.632642
 
Does this cure the 'entire Mac freezing' issue a lot of people have? I hope it does so I can dump Chrome again and switch back to Safari.
 
Moreover I think it represented a move towards the possibility of a single OS in lieu of OS X plus iOS. Apple painted itself into a corner from which any future escape will be inescapably messy.

Yeah, I remember we talked about this one in some length :D As I always said and will say again as someone who has some familiarity with Apple's developer frameworks, I see ZERO evidence that Apple is trying to unify the mobile and desktop OSes (besides the fact that they have always been the same OS, obviously). Their idea has always been OS specialisation and that is what we see — a specialised flavour of OS built on the common platform for different device types. Of course, a reasonable degree of visual convergence is a declared goal, which is why starting from iOS 8 and 10.10 OS X and iOS adopt a similar visual style. So, no need to escape any corners: its not a corner, its a path.
 
Has this ever been different? Only if there is a relatively wide-spread and clearly-defined bug, can a fix of it be reported.


Somewhere behind the looking glass, there has to be a document for each release that shows all the bug fixes, if not, going to be hard to continue the push to corporate buyers that have established SCCM and WSUS on the WIndows side and monitor those systems religiously.
 
People (we Mac users) fail to acknowledge that Apple intentionally cripples all OS versions to create dissatisfaction. Not outright loathing, but just enough irritation to keep all users wanting more.

Apples' biggest nightmare (or at least one of their many) is to create another Snow Leopard type OS that is stable and pleasant to use.

Why? Because they've learned from that experiment that a very large user base won't upgrade again if they finally have a great OS. They also won't upgrade their hardware either... until it dies 10-15 years later or more.

Nope. We'll NEVER see the likes of SL ever again. It'll always be fix-this but break-that forever and ever and ever.

I hope you are wrong.......
[doublepost=1464096227][/doublepost]
What features do you wanna see?

A new feature would be a stable OS...
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.