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Apple Seeking $2.5 Billion from Samsung in U.S. Patent and Design Infringement Trial
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As the patent system goes, Apple will protect its property. But I suspect there's something else behind this. Samsung is (are) one of the few real competitors and they just have to die. If the damages are rewarded could Samsung be driven into bankruptcy? If they are, their excellent TV sets will no longer be available. Is this what we all want? I for one don't.
I have just been awarded a patent that controls the intake of a certain gas mixture into the human body through the contraction and expansion of a set of muscles. It's called breathing and I will become rich beyond imagination!
I agree - without Apple getting into the phone market, we just can't say where things would have gone.
I remember getting the first color screen iPaq 3630 back in 2000 - a full 12 years ago. It could connect to the web and get emails if I used my cell phone as a modem while traveling - or connected to my laptop while my laptop was connected to a phone line. I had some presentation files on it, excel costing spreadsheets and wrote notes and emails on it while traveling around the country. It was definitely a mobile vision of what Windows could or should be - really just a duplication of your desktop on a small screen. The IE app sucked as it didn't re-draw pages well - although back then most websites sucked too.
After I retired the iPaq, I moved to a treo that did many of the same things that the iPaq did, but on a smaller screen with a dedicated keyboard. No need to carry my sanyo phone around anymore. I could do the same sorts of things, like keep a pricing sheet file on it for reference and of course send and receive emails. Using the web browser sucked - with the smaller screen and poorly redrawn "mobile" version of most sites. It really was just a way of keeping in contact with people via email and text.
I remember getting an email from Apple asking me if I would participate in a questionnaire about my cell phone - I think that was back in 2006. I probably still have it archived, but it was before they got into the smartphone business and I remember thinking that it was a great thing for them to consider moving into at the time. I had an iPod that I carried around (along with the treo and either a Compaq, Dell and HP laptop) for listening to music with. I've completely screwed both of my shoulders from years of carrying more than 10 lbs worth of electronics with me (along with the paper I was selling). Anything that could reduce the weight of electronics was something I was happy to be part of.
So Apple didn't create the cell phone, they didn't create mobile email or mobile web or tape/cd-free music players, they didn't create mobile gaming devices, mobile computers, mobile scanners, digital cameras (although they did have a hand in digital camera creation), digital video, mobile contact files, mobile spreadsheet or document applications or digital distribution of software (in general). Apple didn't create a lot of things.
What Apple did do is recognize that putting all these things together into a single device would answer a bunch of needs of people like me.
Discounting the fact that they did this and saying someone else would have gotten to the same point in time is not fair and is simply using hindsight for what it's worth - nothing.
I have an honest question. I notice that there are some here who say what apple did was obvious and refuse to entertain the thought that it was obvious because of hindsight.
Well in that case what are some of the obvious things that will happen next that makes everyone look at it and go wow?
I don't think apple is the inventor of the world but I also find the it was obvious argument hard to swallow.
How come no other company did the obvious?!
Well in that case what are some of the obvious things that will happen next that makes everyone look at it and go wow?
I don't think apple is the inventor of the world but I also find the it was obvious argument hard to swallow.
How come no other company did the obvious?!
Apple has repetively in the past paid for FRAND based licencing agreements to use other companies patents and ideas. Many of the concepts and ideas that we credit apple for "innovating" on by putting in the smartphone, are patents that were nvented or owned by others.
Apple has a long history of patent lawsuits for and against. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation
It's a very long list.
Apple has absolutely no problem with paying for licenses (or buying companies who own those patents). They have done it in the past and continue to do it.
However, Apple refuses to license out their technologies in return.
In this case, Apple is paying Samsung 2.5% of the revenue generated from each iPhone for 3G patents that samsung has. They entered into this agrement with samsung.
1/2 of this claim apple is making is that they believe it's too high, and that instead of renegotiating directly with samsung, they're looking for a court mandate to force samsung to change it to 1.25%.
But on the flip side, instead of trying to negotiate with Samsung a fair and reasonable price for a licence for the 'stolen' use of patents, they're suing and hopeing the courts mandate a few billion dollar settlement, Completely bypassing initial negotiations for Fair and reasonable costs.
I'd be willing to bet that if Apple went ot samsung with open negotiations, Samsung would be likely willing to pay for them. With the ability to use licensed patents, you could develop new technologies and actually innovate instead of spending most of your time avoiding stepping on those same patents.
This "thermonuclear war" which we all like to reference by apple has probably had an even worse affect on innovation and design than if apple willingly opened negotiations for license agreements. R&D when trying to come up with something "new and cool" need to try and sidestep and avoid infringing on so many patents because of fear of lawsuits that it's damn near hard to come up with something new.
And Apples purposeful patent trolling has only made it harder. Apple has put in patent requests for some of the screwiest patents. The sad thing is they're being awarded. Patents for completing tasks that are 'common' are being awarded, Not based on the technology of the task, but just completion of the task.
For Example of a joke Patent: Apple has patented using NFC to check in at Airports. Not the NFC technology. Not the software, Not the checkin booths nor the server and software infrastructure. The CoNcept of "checking in using nfc technology". NFC was designed for doing this. ti's a standard, yet somehow apple now has a patent for this. Any other company who uses NFC trying to use NFC for checkin systems at airports nwo violate apples patent, a patent in which they don't even have an active technology in place to use.
So this is why when Patent and lawsuits come up with Apple, People get angry and frustrated. Apple is now being seen as the biggest barrier to innovation, rather than pioneers of it. They're using the patents to slow down competition instead of trying to be better at it then everyone else.
I love the apple products I do have. They're great device. But apple as a company leaves a sour taste in my mouth
How come no other company did the obvious?!
Plenty of companies were already doing the obvious. They just didn't package or market it quite so well.
How come no other company did the obvious?!
Many companies innovate and for one reason or another - they can't get the patent, can't afford attorneys to fight for them and/or just never get noticed.
Go look up the story of Farnsworth and the Television set.
Not even. Samsung knew what they were doing and they still did it.
They rushed to create an iPhone clone just to dilute the market without a care in the world, in terms of copying the existing iPhone.
Samsung deserves everything they get - they're a horrible company and I hope they go penniless. Maybe then they'll learn to actually come up with an idea on their own rather then blatantly copying Apple.
Obvious next step - it's obvious now because we live with it day in and day out. And that's how innovation is supposed to work, no? Perhaps you remember how things played out with vinyl records moving to tapes moving to compact discs moving to digital files? So we just say, "well, it's obvious that records were replaced by tapes and tapes replaced by cd's and cd's replaced by digital files. Why don't we just skip all those steps and the many patents they spawned and move right to the end technology?
And if we got rid of software patents, what company in their right mind would create software? If company A creates software to do something specific (patentable even), takes it to market and company B copies it and because company B is 10 times bigger can sell the software for less or even a loss (given they didn't put the same investment into writing the software) - is that fair, ethical or the right way to do things?
And in regards to other companies winning patents on things companies, including Apple are using today royalty/license-free, it will play out as a FRAND technology and Apple and Google/RIM/Nokia, etc will pay a percentage back to said company. The company that gets the patent may pressure all the players that they'll withhold the patent in order to drive the value of the patent up, but that is where the courts end up intervening to set some reasonable FRAND value.
You have no idea how long and how much work it takes to bring a phone to market. If you did - you wouldn't say anything remotely as ignorant as they rushed to create an iPhone clone.
And if they go penniless - what will happen to Apple. You know - the company you love so much uses components from the company you hate so much. What a dilemma for you
Are you actually saying that "tap tap...tap tap" is akin to the evolution of media?
One is the march of technology, the other a nice convenience feature.
This horrible company manufactures a majority of the parts that make up the iPhone. If Apple is around, Samsung will get many pennies.
But why didn't the companies that could afford it do the obvious? What was so special about apple?
And what's the obvious next step today?
Google not Samsung has the legal fees paid by Oracle. Samsung and Oracle have no lawsuit pending.
Batteries will have better capacities. Screens will have better resolutions. be made as thin as possible. be "unbreakable" Components will get smaller. Devices will become more intuitive and all talk to each other for seamless integration (much like Bill Gates had hoped with appliances having an OS).
And lots of other things. You're asking a bunch of forum members to look into the future for obvious next steps. Obvious is extremely subjective.
Why don't they all agree to put they equivalent of half the lawyers' fees into one big fat account and give it to veterans' charities?
See, Apple didn't completely invent the smartphone as we know it today. Everything in the iPhone is an extension of what came earlier, and there's plenty of proof showing the touchscreen candybar phone was where the industry was already headed. What they did was make it incredibly slick, smooth, attractive, and easy to use.
This is what Apple does best. I won't say they're not innovative at all, because they do come out with some incredibly clever stuff. But they are refiners moreso than inventors. They stand upon the shoulders of giants as much as any other company.
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Heres something that strikes me odd. And why Apple is receiving a lot of negativity over the lawsuits.
Apple violates Samsung Patent. Samsung agrees to go into licencing agreement. Apple continues selling product. Both Companies make millions.
Samsung violates (allegedly, still in most courts) Apple Patents. Apple refuses to licence any patents. Asks for injunctions and all out bans on All samsung products and claims Samsung is directly responsible for billions in lost sales, then accuses samsung of charging them too much for use of Samsungs Patents.
Apple wonders why this "thermonuclear war" is costing them billions? Maybe it's their own damn fault. Try entering negotiations for licencing and you'd be amazed how much faster innovation happens when you're not busy spending millions on lawsuits and cumbersome ways of developing new tech's without stepping on eachothers patents.
Apple's patents are not FRAND encumbered. Apple doesn't have to provide licensing to Samsung. Samsung has to provide licensing to Apple for its FRAND encumbered patents, with Apple merely having to make an effort to negotiate a fair price. If that fails, and it has, Samsung wants to have an injunction against any Apple products that infringe. Most judicial bodies and standard setting organizations do not support Samsung (nor for that matter Motorola) with injunctions when negotiations fail. The courts have ultimate authority to determine fair cost when negotiations fail. I believe that will be how Samsung's licensing claims will be settled.
Er, make that "didn't completely invent the smartphone". Dunno if you'll still agree with me after saying that.
Er, make that "didn't completely invent the smartphone". Dunno if you'll still agree with me after saying that.
Lol no I knew it was a typo
Er, make that "didn't completely invent the smartphone". Dunno if you'll still agree with me after saying that.
lol, ya, that caused me a double take, but the wording of the post made me know what you really meant.
this is my biggest beef with the Apple fanboy crowd. Apple invented everything. From MP3 players, to Smartphones and heck, even the modern computer of course!
Apple has almost never been first to invent their first products. They did an amazing job at seeing what others have done, and merging the most popular stuff with eachother into a streamlined and extremely well engineered, and well designed package.
Mp3 players existed before the ipod. smartphones existed before the iphone. PC's existed before the Apple and Ultraportables existed before the Macbook Air.
Why si this such a hard concept?
