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Apple Seeking to Stimulate Mac Development With $99 Mac Dev Program

barberio said:
No. One *hugely important* thing Apple recognised is that mobile devices are *not* just small versions of your desktop computer.

There are multiple difference,
* User Interface : OS X is driven by a mouse and keyboard. iPhone OS is driven by a touch screen.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a touch screen with a keyboard on it and your finger as a mouse. Very different. People still need to type and point at things.

Plus proper keyboards are coming to iPhone OS 3.2 anyway because Apple have finally come down off their mountain and granted us Bluetooth Keyboard support - like other mobile OS's have had for eons and the iPhone hasn't had for 3 years.

barberio said:
* Capacity : OS X has expandable upgradable storage space. iPhone OS has limited storage space.
Click to expand...

That's more a problem with their hardware, not OS. If Apple added a card slot or a USB port to their iPhone OS devices, it wouldn't be a difference and every other mobile OS is ok with external storage options.

barberio said:
* Power management: iPhone OS alters what it offers to keep power demands low. This includes the much maligned multitasking restrictions.
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Right, so iPad with 10 hours battery life gets more restrictions than my Macbook which has at best 4 hours life. Yeah, that makes sense.

barberio said:
iPhone OS is not just OS X cut down and pushed onto a portable device. This is why the iPhone/Touch has worked so well, and had good battery life.
Click to expand...

The iPhone/Touch has TERRIBLE battery life compared to other manufacturer's devices that have multi-tasking already. eg. my Nokia E71. Full multitasking, 1500mAh battery (more capacity than the iPhone), removable/upgradeable storage and it's smaller/thinner than an iPhone. Battery lasts a couple of days for me in average use running Twitter, push email, permanent VoIP over Wifi, occasional browsing and Ovi/Google Maps. I've all those active now and it's drawing 0.28W. With the screen in standby (backlight off) it draws 0.13W whilst multitasking without missing a beat.

barberio said:
The OS X UI is the traditional desktop metaphor, the iPhone OS has a 'multi-function push-button device' metaphor where you have a universal remote that's also a games console that's also a phone that's also a web-browser that's also a...
Click to expand...

I agree and if you can live with those limitations on your phone, and many people can, it's a fine compromise to get passable battery life out of a battery hungry software/hardware stack. I don't think that stretches to the iPad though. The likely iPad usage pattern isn't the same as a phone and the laptop sized screen gives greater scope to multitask. I think even the type of people that maximize every window on desktop Windows/MacOSX will find the iPad restricting. The iPad needs to be much closer to the desktop model, not the iPhone model.

Anyhow,

If this is a move to a Mac App Store, then I'd be worried if I were a Mac developer. If they couldn't get their app into the Mac App Store then they'd be at a big disadvantage.

If it's a move to signed Mac apps and an exclusive store like the iPhone then a lot of developers and users will be off to Windows and Linux and ditching the Mac.

Hopefully it's neither and it's just them reducing the price of developer access beyond the free SDK, which really does seem the most likely. Hopefully Apple isn't THAT stupid despite it's recent boneheaded moves in the patent space.
 
talkingfuture said:
I hope this leads to a Mac app store. Could be a major boost for Mac software.
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I don't. why? Apple censors what they carry. just isn't a great idea to have censorship at all. there needs to be online stores for software, apps and more which doesn't suffer from corporate agenda's and blocking products for a myriad of reasons.

also, it kinda sucks to lose the hardware ADC discounts.
 
Tis move makes sense, and I expected to see it long ago. Get developers to learn the basics of coding for OS X in the iPhone OS, and make it enticing for them to take those skills, and expand them in the full version of OS X.

I can't say that I have programmed anything more than a widget, or a simple "widget like" application for the iPhone OS, but I can say that the tools are quite nice for coding in both iPhone OS, and OS X!
 
SSmagicman said:
The new "Mac Developer Program" webiste indicated that this new $99/year membership also includes "Development Videos that deliver the latest on Mac OS X through iTunes." Does anyone know if this means you get access to the WWDC session videos for only $99? Even if you used to have an ADC account Apple charged an extra $3500 for these videos in the past. This is a HUGE resource if it is now available for only $99. Can anyone confirm if the WWDC videos are available? Let me know, Thanks!
Click to expand...
According to the new site, those videos are still being sold separately:
Mac Sessions - $299
Iphone Sessions - $299
or complete collection for $499
 
guzhogi said:
Something I would like is a single combined software install, removal, update, & app store app with the ability to use other apps (bold so people read it & not just what comes before). Here are the basic functions explained:

-Install: same thing as Installer.app

-Removal: looks up all the apps you have, see where all their files are, etc. & deletes everything. Give an option to delete one app in a suite & not delete a file that's shared by multiple apps

-Update: updates Apple software as well as 3rd party software. Lets you not have to hunt around to see if there's an update for your app.

-App store: a central location to buy Apple & 3rd party apps. Include an option to buy software for someone else. Also, have an option to show all apps, only apps where you meet the minimum requirements & only show apps where you meet the recommended requirements. And make it easily searchable & have different categories (ie Lifestyle, Health, Education, Games, etc.).

Though I want to be able to get my software from somewhere else, too.
Click to expand...

Same here. In the Linux realm you have package managers like yum where you can install/uninstall software packages. By default the package managers get software from a central repository but you can add other repositories.

On the Mac (and the iPhone for that matter) I'd like a GUI package manager where you can download and/or buy software from the central repository - The Apple App Store - but had the ability to add additional 3rd party repositories or stores.

That way the user controls which stores they wish to use. Apple is the default so makes a stack of cash being the default and possibly also making a stack by handling the purchase too. Developers can set up their own stores/repositories and have them included in the 'App store' without the stupid Apple approval process.
 
840quadra said:
Tis move makes sense, and I expected to see it long ago. Get developers to learn the basics of coding for OS X in the iPhone OS, and make it enticing for them to take those skills, and expand them in the full version of OS X.

I can't say that I have programmed anything more than a widget, or a simple "widget like" application for the iPhone OS, but I can say that the tools are quite nice for coding in both iPhone OS, and OS X!
Click to expand...

The tools have always been free, and still are, for coding on Mac OSX. They're free on the iPhone too for that matter until you need to release your software on the store.
 
aegisdesign said:
Yeah, a touch screen with a keyboard on it and your finger as a mouse. Very different. People still need to type and point at things.
Click to expand...

And you immediately highlight that you don't understand the difference at all. Try watching the User Interface instruction videos I mentioned in the above post. They'll outline the very real and very significant differences in how you have to design and work with a UI on a desktop and a touchpad.

That's more a problem with their hardware, not OS. If Apple added a card slot or a USB port to their iPhone OS devices, it wouldn't be a difference and every other mobile OS is ok with external storage options.
Click to expand...

No, available storage for a small portable unit will always lag behind that available to a larger notebook, or a statically located desktop.

Right, so iPad with 10 hours battery life gets more restrictions than my Macbook which has at best 4 hours life. Yeah, that makes sense.
Click to expand...

Dare I suggest that the iPad gets a lot of that 10 hours of battery life *because* it uses a different software model than a desktop so needs to use less resources.

The iPhone/Touch has TERRIBLE battery life compared to other manufacturer's devices that have multi-tasking already. eg. my Nokia E71. Full multitasking, 1500mAh battery (more capacity than the iPhone), removable/upgradeable storage and it's smaller/thinner than an iPhone. Battery lasts a couple of days for me in average use running Twitter, push email, permanent VoIP over Wifi, occasional browsing and Ovi/Google Maps. I've all those active now and it's drawing 0.28W. With the screen in standby (backlight off) it draws 0.13W whilst multitasking without missing a beat.
Click to expand...

Your Nokia E71 is also very different to a desktop computer too. And does even less than a desktop.

I agree and if you can live with those limitations on your phone, and many people can, it's a fine compromise to get passable battery life out of a battery hungry software/hardware stack. I don't think that stretches to the iPad though. The likely iPad usage pattern isn't the same as a phone and the laptop sized screen gives greater scope to multitask. I think even the type of people that maximize every window on desktop Windows/MacOSX will find the iPad restricting. The iPad needs to be much closer to the desktop model, not the iPhone model.
Click to expand...

I think you're wrong. The iPad does not need to be more closer to the desktop model. Because you *can't* make a small long battery life portable multifunction device that does everything a notebook can do and do it well. Apple understand this, and make a portable multifunction device that does what a portable multifunction device does best and does *not* try to be an ultra-portable desktop.

This is why 'tablet PCs' never took off, but the iPad looks set to be a big hit.

Anyhow,

If this is a move to a Mac App Store, then I'd be worried if I were a Mac developer. If they couldn't get their app into the Mac App Store then they'd be at a big disadvantage.

If it's a move to signed Mac apps and an exclusive store like the iPhone then a lot of developers and users will be off to Windows and Linux and ditching the Mac.

Hopefully it's neither and it's just them reducing the price of developer access beyond the free SDK, which really does seem the most likely. Hopefully Apple isn't THAT stupid despite it's recent boneheaded moves in the patent space.
Click to expand...

This is not a move to an App Store. No one from Apple has mentioned a Mac App Store. This is not a move to required app signing on Desktop OS X, no one has mentioned it, *and* it's be suicide for Apple to do it.
 
barberio said:
Only in Apple marketing terms. And that way you'd have to include OS X Server as the third flavour.
Click to expand...

I don't know about now, but in the past Mac OS X Server was only different because it came with "Server apps" (i.e. GUI frontend for stuff already available for the client Mac OS X). Otherwise it was no different. That doesn't constitute a "flavor" imo.

But in terms of the system, iPhone OS is related to OS X only as much as Ubuntu is related to the embedded Linux running on a router.
Click to expand...

They are both basically the same kernel, one being optimized for a different application. This constitutes a flavor imo but not a completely separate system as in neither case did they start from scratch.

It's not like Java and Javascript. They are only related because Netscape wanted to use the popularity of the Java name for their language. iPhone OS/Mac OS X and Linux/embedded Linux actually have something in common.
 
zorinlynx said:
Who cares about the hardware discounts anymore when you're paying only 20% as much?

Surely whatever you saved on the hardware discounts will be saved on the membership in short order...
Click to expand...

I actually paid 500$ for select last year and saved 800$ on a hardware discount.

So the hardware discounts used to pay for the whole thing, and save some extra after that.
 
how about they release the new MBP and Mac Pros so that these Dev's can work on Macs featuring the latest and greatest tech....
 
Stella said:
I very much agree - locking down OSX will kill the OS as a desktop platform and I don't think its very likely.
Click to expand...

Apple has marketing data that we don't. There's a case to be made that Apple has found that "locking down" the platform for joe consumer actually increases sales of both hardware and apps. Greater sales revenues for the majority of small developers will do the opposite of kill the platform. It will grow it.

Don't want a locked down machine? Same as with the iPhone. Get a $99 dev account, compile, sign and install your chosen apps/(whatever) on your own machine, and up to 99 of your friend's iPhones/Macs.

Just like mainframes and minicomputers, the general purpose PC is a dying product category.

imho
 
firewood said:
Apple has marketing data that we don't. There's a case to be made that Apple has found that "locking down" the platform for joe consumer actually increases sales of both hardware and apps. Greater sales revenues for the majority of small developers will do the opposite of kill the platform. It will grow it.

Don't want a locked down machine? Same as with the iPhone. Get a $99 dev account, compile, sign and install your chosen apps/(whatever) on your own machine, and up to 99 of your friend's iPhones/Macs.

Just like mainframes and minicomputers, the general purpose PC is a dying product category.

imho
Click to expand...

90 million Windows 7 licenses sold disagrees with you
 
aegisdesign said:
The tools have always been free, and still are, for coding on Mac OSX. They're free on the iPhone too for that matter until you need to release your software on the store.
Click to expand...

Or until your want to install your own software on to your own device..
 
I have been saving up for a Mac Pro and was about to purchase the ADC Student Membership for the hardware discount. As a student, every little bit of savings help especially on a $2K+ machine.

I contacted the ADC support team and received the following reply from "Linda" via e-mail:

The student membership only allowed for one computer purchase. Under the new program, you can by one of each type of system. The new membership gives you more computer purchases. We do not offer the old one. Sorry for the confusion.

Best regards,

Linda

This seems to conflict with the website which does not mention ADC Hardware Discounts at all. What is going on here. Can we still get hardware discounts or not?
 
aegisdesign said:
If this is a move to a Mac App Store, then I'd be worried if I were a Mac developer.
Click to expand...

I'm not. I make tons more money from my apps in the iPhone app store than from the paypal link on the website for my Mac apps. Tons more downloads of my free iPhone apps as well, compared to my free Mac apps that have been around for far longer. This even includes that fact that Apple takes 30%, compared to around 3% for paypal, and that some of my iPhone apps were rejected for silly reasons.

So I vote for a Mac App Store. Maybe even a locked-down consumer version of Mac OS X (as long as I can buy a $99 dev certificate to install whatever I want as well on my own dev Macs.)

ymmv.
 
degsyuk said:
Apple are trying to create another revenue stream. Nothing more. Lower cost = more members = more money.
Click to expand...

While they will get some more folks paying the amount of money they will be getting from some will go down. I don't think this is "more" money as opposed to enough money to cover the costs. Developer were getting steep discounts on hardware (much higher than any other available discount). Likewise all of the XCode and associated tools development , doc writing , etc . etc. came be funded by developer fees. It already was a revenue stream. This has more of chance to be a revenue stream that actually pays for the what services/utilities were being delivered.


If anything Apple will make "more money" off the the hardware developers buy at higher costs now.


Similar to the hardware discount disappearing, it seems as though the access to the compatibility lab is going away too. (or they just completely fail to mention it) Required going to an Apple location, but if they nuke that then smaller and/or newer developers won't have access to a variety of hardware to do testing on. Again a cost cutting move. Paying less and getting less (doesn't necessarily lead to Apple making more money).


This simply puts Mac developers on the same price footing as iPhone developers. That seems awfully fair. Why should Mac developers have to pay lots more to be a "OS X" developer? [ For all of the folks who say the hardware discount 'pay' for the select price, your total expenditure outlay including the hardware costs is higher than that of iPhone costs. ] If put the hardware costs aside under this new program, the costs are the same.



As soon as there are enough people paying $99 some elements of the mac os api or sdk will become subscription only.
Click to expand...

The developer fee is yearly. It already was and is a subscription.



The "Other guys" offer a wealth of development material, videos, case studies, documents and tools for free.
Click to expand...

While not exactly the same there is was and is a free program to get to the basic tools and documentation. Did they offer highly discounted hardware???


The problems with the app store approval process are well documented.
Click to expand...

This has diddly squat to do with an app store.

There already are several "shareware" app buying sites on the web that some popular utilities use. The app store primarily just means to
i. get lots to apps to market quickly
ii. at extremely low prices.
iii. put some "quality control " on the apps released for platform.

Those kinds of apps already exist on Mac OS X. The Mac OS X app market is mature. The last point has upsides/downsides.
 
firewood said:
I'm not. I make tons more money from my apps in the iPhone app store than from the paypal link on the website for my Mac apps.
Click to expand...

That likely has extremely little to do with the type of "store" and much more to do with the number of potential users. Unless Apple lowers Mac prices down into the iPhone/Touch range an "mac os x " store isn't likely going to significantly change that number which means there won't be an increase due to store "type" .
 
The developer fee is yearly. It already was and is a subscription.
Click to expand...

You don't need the subscription, though. You just have to install the dev tools off the OS X disk.

This is the Windows development equivalent of subscribing to MSDN.
 
Stella said:
....
just like mainframes and minicomputers, the general purpose PC is a dying product category.
Click to expand...

Evidence?
Click to expand...

If 'dying' == low growth. Then yes. If 'dying' high negative shrinkage then not so much.

They are not as much dead as saturated markets. The vast majority of people who can economically utilize a mainframe or mini have one. So primarily what you have is a "replacement" market.

On the mainframe side stratospheric software pricing is also suppressing growth. Primarily all mainframe growth these days comes some software that isn't so death spiral priced.

The go-go growth years are coming to an end for the PC also. The market is maturing and the lower cost, but capable enough alternatives are in the high growth phase now.
 
SSmagicman said:
The new "Mac Developer Program" webiste indicated that this new $99/year membership also includes "Development Videos that deliver the latest on Mac OS X through iTunes." Does anyone know if this means you get access to the WWDC session videos for only $99? Even if you used to have an ADC account Apple charged an extra $3500 for these videos in the past. This is a HUGE resource if it is now available for only $99. Can anyone confirm if the WWDC videos are available? Let me know, Thanks!
Click to expand...

In short, you can only obtain the session videos of the WWDC conference that you have attended for free. Otherwise, you'll need to pay for them.
 
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