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My hesitations about a centralized Mac App store are this:

Right now Apple weeds out content from that iPhone app store that it finds "questionable" and/or competes with, or "duplicates" existing software. If a Mac App store should come to be, Apple has two options:

  1. Allow any app be distributed via the Mac App Store.
  2. Retain the ability to install Apple-squelched apps through other means (conventional d/l & install)

Apple's censorship practices are becoming questionable, and I don't want that to affect the way I use my Mac.

-Clive
 
Low growth -did you take the current recession into account. All almost all consumer markets have been hit.

The record number of copies windows 7 and OSX sold ?

When the markets do eventually become saturated, people will still buy Desktop software.

Any company that restricts its software like Apple is a huge step backwards, IMO.

Software / platforms should be opening up, not closing up.


If 'dying' == low growth. Then yes. If 'dying' high negative shrinkage then not so much.
 
Snow Leopard Server included

I can confirm now that the subscription does still include Snow Leopard Server, and the older ones as well, for that matter.
 
Great. A fresh new process for finding apps. Now we get to sift and sort through a million crapps before finding something useful... That's the thing I hate about the app store.
 
i think this is great news - makes developing for the mac more accessible so hopefully we will see some more apps etc.

This is terrible news...for students....The one time hardware discount was a good deal for higher end Apple computers.:mad:
 
And you immediately highlight that you don't understand the difference at all. Try watching the User Interface instruction videos I mentioned in the above post. They'll outline the very real and very significant differences in how you have to design and work with a UI on a desktop and a touchpad.

The iPhone's differences are entirely because you've got to use something as inaccurate as a pork sausage (your finger) on a screen as the size of playing card.

I personally think it was genius on their part to get rid of the stylus that everyone else was using on their smartphones beforehand to get pixel perfect access to tiny scrollbars. Before switching to a Nokia I was a longterm user of Sony Ericsson UIQ based phones such as the P910i. UIQ was much better than Nokia's S60. It was however a pain in the the rear pulling out the stylus to use those. You could 'get by' with your finger most of the time - or the jog wheel which was great when you got it, enabling you to use a UIQ phone one handed. The virtual keyboard was impossible though, pecking away with a stylus.

Apple must have had a moment of clarity realising that the stylus was the problem and then crafting a whole UI around a fat finger pointer with big buttons and no scroll bars.

It has its limitations though and those I think will become much clearer on the iPad which has a screen the same size as a laptop screen.


No, available storage for a small portable unit will always lag behind that available to a larger notebook, or a statically located desktop.

It need not and the iPad is far from being small. There's no reason I can think of to not include a USB port in the iPad. I've a couple of USB sticks for transferring files over sneakernet that are 32GB each. Good luck transferring large files over 3G if there's no wifi network.


Dare I suggest that the iPad gets a lot of that 10 hours of battery life *because* it uses a different software model than a desktop so needs to use less resources.

That's just plain wrong. The example Jobs gave was playing straight video for 10 hours. It's still running tasks in the background - just the Apple ones mind. Stick a Macbook into single user mode, kill off all the tasks you don't need and you'll not get 10 hours to play video. The software model isn't the difference - the iPad just has less hungry hardware than a MacBook.

So, it's a hardware difference, way more than software. The software differences are marginal to battery performance.


Your Nokia E71 is also very different to a desktop computer too. And does even less than a desktop.

It's not so different. It has a screen, a multi tasking OS, has a full wordprocessor, spreadsheet, browser, skype, twitter client, maps, email, a bluetooth keyboard, file system, icons, windows, etc. It's not a touch screen at all. I can even run a webserver on it. UIQ was even closer to a desktop. If I'd said I had an N900, it's pretty much Debian Linux and has an 800x600 screen.

Both are of course much closer to a desktop than the iPhone and I think Apple is making a poor choice positioning the iPad closer to the iPhone than to a Mac. I want to use the iPad for Mac style tasks, not iPhone style tasks. I already have a phone for those.


I think you're wrong. The iPad does not need to be more closer to the desktop model. Because you *can't* make a small long battery life portable multifunction device that does everything a notebook can do and do it well. Apple understand this, and make a portable multifunction device that does what a portable multifunction device does best and does *not* try to be an ultra-portable desktop.

See Nokia N900 or OQO even. The iPad is larger than both of those but has less functionality. I don't see why the iPad needs to exclude multi-tasking or allowing 3rd party apps to be installed without Apple approval.

This is why 'tablet PCs' never took off, but the iPad looks set to be a big hit.

Tablet PCs never took off because they weighed the same as a laptop, ran the same crappy OS and required a pointy stick.

Apple again has worked out what was wrong with Tablet PCs and played a blinder with the hardware and UI. The only things wrong with the iPad are Apple's policies on letting users run whatever software they want on it - the same limitations they've imposed on the iPhone and also why I do not have an iPhone.

Will it be a hit. Of course it will. It has an Apple logo on it.


This is not a move to an App Store. No one from Apple has mentioned a Mac App Store. This is not a move to required app signing on Desktop OS X, no one has mentioned it, *and* it's be suicide for Apple to do it.

Of course it's suicide for the Mac if Apple did it. It follows the traditional free model of letting a user do what they want. But why on earth do people bend over and accept restrictions for Apple's iPhone and iPad???

It's not just Apple though. It seems to be a growing trend that computing platforms are becoming less open and more controlled by companies such as Apple, Facebook, Google... What we think as suicide now seems to be the norm for emerging platforms.

When Nokia went 'Symbian Signed' for it's apps, it killed off a lot of developers that couldn't afford to be developers anymore and made developing a bit more of a chore. Nokia/Symbian realise it was a mistake and are now opening up.

Apple would do well to open up more.
 
Christ I need to use my hardware discount because it expires… release those computers soon damn it!
 
I have been saving up for a Mac Pro and was about to purchase the ADC Student Membership for the hardware discount. As a student, every little bit of savings help especially on a $2K+ machine.

I contacted the ADC support team and received the following reply from "Linda" via e-mail:

The student membership only allowed for one computer purchase. Under the new program, you can by one of each type of system. The new membership gives you more computer purchases. We do not offer the old one. Sorry for the confusion.

Best regards,

Linda


This seems to conflict with the website which does not mention ADC Hardware Discounts at all. What is going on here. Can we still get hardware discounts or not?

I do not know if this answers the question but if you go to the developer page and search for student developer the first link you get takes you to the student developer hardware discount page which links to the developer store (via the ADC Hardware purchase program page) which still seems to show some substantial discounts.

If you try to bye a student developer credential it takes you to the main developer page.

-spg
 
Hmmm, this is in contradiction to what I was told by ADC, which is one system so you could get a desktop plus a notebook. You couldn't get 2 desktops as that would be considered 2 systems.

I have been saving up for a Mac Pro and was about to purchase the ADC Student Membership for the hardware discount. As a student, every little bit of savings help especially on a $2K+ machine.

I contacted the ADC support team and received the following reply from "Linda" via e-mail:

The student membership only allowed for one computer purchase. Under the new program, you can by one of each type of system. The new membership gives you more computer purchases. We do not offer the old one. Sorry for the confusion.

Best regards,

Linda


This seems to conflict with the website which does not mention ADC Hardware Discounts at all. What is going on here. Can we still get hardware discounts or not?
 
Who cares about the hardware discounts anymore when you're paying only 20% as much?

Surely whatever you saved on the hardware discounts will be saved on the membership in short order...

Gee, maybe because if you were to buy a $99 student ADC membership you could save over $500 on a computer (I saved ~$600 on a Mac Pro).

I actually paid 500$ for select last year and saved 800$ on a hardware discount.

So the hardware discounts used to pay for the whole thing, and save some extra after that.

Exactly.
 
Overreacting

I think people are overreacting here. Just because they lowered the DEV program to $99, does not mean there is going to be an Mac App Store. I'm still trying to figure out where you guys are getting this from?

I read the site, and there is no mention of a Mac App Store. I think lowering the price is to entice more devs to the Mac platform. The $499 was kinda high, I thought.

Sure the discounts where larger then the normal ones and people used them (including myself one time ago). But was that really helping to bring over more Apps to the Mac? We need more Mac developers!

Going back the Mac App store thing for a sec. Why would Apple do this? It would mean Windows users would be free to download what ever they wanted and the Mac users wouldn't. I can tell you Apple will not be selling much machines, and 50% of the money coming in is from Mac Computers (maybe more laptops then desktops but that is beside the point). So it just won't happen.

What I can see is as some of said a Mac App Store opening up it would just to help those dev that are just starting out, wouldn't mean the end of the Mac platform as we know it.

Oh if you think we don't have silly apps already out for the Mac then you need to go on Version Tracker and check out some of the software that comes out daily. So much of the programs do the same thing. :/


Hugh
 
Sad

It's very sad to see how my favorite company follows Microsoft restrictive suicide steps.

Yes we know, that Steve want shareholders to be happy, but what about the spirit of freedom from boundaries, what about think different, what about opens source unix (open darwin) etc?

I guess after a decade of buying macs i soon will replace them with real open source os - Linux and same cheap apple hardware without shiny cases and overpriced logo badge.

If they think of mac os x like they think about iphone os and apple store 30% rip of, i am totally abandoning this shiny aluminum ship.

But if someone from Apple steps up and tells me that i never be controlled what to install on my computer, i will pay (again) for mac dev program without thinking twice.:)))
 
Wow, how do you even get "$99 Mac Developer Program" == "Mac App Store"?

"Modeled after the highly successful iPhone Developer Program, we've relaunched the Mac Developer Program to offer members technical resources, support, access to pre-release software, developer forums and more, all for just $99 per year. As our developer base continues to grow in leaps and bounds, we're working hard to ensure we provide our developers with everything they need to create innovative applications for both the iPhone OS and Mac OS X."

The mac developer base is growing, so the old program with it's mix of free and paid for content is working. So why change it?

The new program is modeled after the iPhone Developer Program. Which bits? By whose definition is the iphone Developer Program successful?

Maybe Apple see it as successful because iphone developers pay Apple to access the platform and then pay a royalty on every application sold. Apple is a business and by definition its primary function is to generate income for it's owners.

So I think some of what's being debated here is:

$99 Mac Developer Program = Mac App Store?
 
The iPhone's differences are entirely because you've got to use something as inaccurate as a pork sausage (your finger) on a screen as the size of playing card.

I personally think it was genius on their part to get rid of the stylus that everyone else was using on their smartphones beforehand to get pixel perfect access to tiny scrollbars. Before switching to a Nokia I was a longterm user of Sony Ericsson UIQ based phones such as the P910i. UIQ was much better than Nokia's S60. It was however a pain in the the rear pulling out the stylus to use those. You could 'get by' with your finger most of the time - or the jog wheel which was great when you got it, enabling you to use a UIQ phone one handed. The virtual keyboard was impossible though, pecking away with a stylus.

Apple must have had a moment of clarity realising that the stylus was the problem and then crafting a whole UI around a fat finger pointer with big buttons and no scroll bars.

It has its limitations though and those I think will become much clearer on the iPad which has a screen the same size as a laptop screen.




It need not and the iPad is far from being small. There's no reason I can think of to not include a USB port in the iPad. I've a couple of USB sticks for transferring files over sneakernet that are 32GB each. Good luck transferring large files over 3G if there's no wifi network.




That's just plain wrong. The example Jobs gave was playing straight video for 10 hours. It's still running tasks in the background - just the Apple ones mind. Stick a Macbook into single user mode, kill off all the tasks you don't need and you'll not get 10 hours to play video. The software model isn't the difference - the iPad just has less hungry hardware than a MacBook.

So, it's a hardware difference, way more than software. The software differences are marginal to battery performance.




It's not so different. It has a screen, a multi tasking OS, has a full wordprocessor, spreadsheet, browser, skype, twitter client, maps, email, a bluetooth keyboard, file system, icons, windows, etc. It's not a touch screen at all. I can even run a webserver on it. UIQ was even closer to a desktop. If I'd said I had an N900, it's pretty much Debian Linux and has an 800x600 screen.

Both are of course much closer to a desktop than the iPhone and I think Apple is making a poor choice positioning the iPad closer to the iPhone than to a Mac. I want to use the iPad for Mac style tasks, not iPhone style tasks. I already have a phone for those.




See Nokia N900 or OQO even. The iPad is larger than both of those but has less functionality. I don't see why the iPad needs to exclude multi-tasking or allowing 3rd party apps to be installed without Apple approval.



Tablet PCs never took off because they weighed the same as a laptop, ran the same crappy OS and required a pointy stick.

Apple again has worked out what was wrong with Tablet PCs and played a blinder with the hardware and UI. The only things wrong with the iPad are Apple's policies on letting users run whatever software they want on it - the same limitations they've imposed on the iPhone and also why I do not have an iPhone.

Will it be a hit. Of course it will. It has an Apple logo on it.




Of course it's suicide for the Mac if Apple did it. It follows the traditional free model of letting a user do what they want. But why on earth do people bend over and accept restrictions for Apple's iPhone and iPad???

It's not just Apple though. It seems to be a growing trend that computing platforms are becoming less open and more controlled by companies such as Apple, Facebook, Google... What we think as suicide now seems to be the norm for emerging platforms.

When Nokia went 'Symbian Signed' for it's apps, it killed off a lot of developers that couldn't afford to be developers anymore and made developing a bit more of a chore. Nokia/Symbian realise it was a mistake and are now opening up.

Apple would do well to open up more.

If Apple could do something like the App Store, but keep the OS open. So the App Store is like the package management system for Linux but only for third party prgrams.
 
It is sensible to assume Apple will create an App Store for Mac software based on the lowering of the subscription price:
  • Currently, there's already apple.com/downloads, which is an Apple-controlled software repository. However, it's broken: You have to install all your software manually and update it manually… and pay for it separately if it's not free-beer software. An App Store that replaces this repository is an obvious idea and would be great.
  • Further, the App Store is a huge success — but only for small, cheap Apps.
  • An App Store would require Apple to distribute code signing keys, some tighter agreements with developers, etc., in other words: It requires a paid subscription. 500 bucks is too expensive for smaller developers, including hobbyist programmers, so it makes sense to lower the monetary entry bar.

However, it's simply not possible to lock Mac OS X down in the same way they did for iP* OS X:
  • Mac OS X is the development platform. This requires developers to be able run their newly written software on their machines. However, if you can run your own apps, you can also install 3rd party apps from source.
  • Mac OS X is UNIX-certified. However, the UNIX spec is based on source compatibility, that is, a UNIX system must be able to run software compiled from source.
  • The iP* App Store has not been a success for higher-priced software. Small, cheap "apps" work for mobile devices but not for a multi-purpose desktop platform.
 
"Modeled after the highly successful iPhone Developer Program, we've relaunched the Mac Developer Program to offer members technical resources, support, access to pre-release software, developer forums and more, all for just $99 per year. As our developer base continues to grow in leaps and bounds, we're working hard to ensure we provide our developers with everything they need to create innovative applications for both the iPhone OS and Mac OS X."

The mac developer base is growing, so the old program with it's mix of free and paid for content is working. So why change it?

The new program is modeled after the iPhone Developer Program. Which bits? By whose definition is the iphone Developer Program successful?

Maybe Apple see it as successful because iphone developers pay Apple to access the platform and then pay a royalty on every application sold. Apple is a business and by definition its primary function is to generate income for it's owners.

So I think some of what's being debated here is:

$99 Mac Developer Program = Mac App Store?

I seriously can't believe how far people are stretching this.

It's modeled after the PRICE of the iphone developer program. It's cheap, so they got many developers. So they are lowering the price for the mac developer program from 500$ to 100$. Simple as that.

And how do they do that? They remove the hardware discount option. Basically it's even more expensive than it is today, but more people can access it. SIMPLE AS THAT.

There's no mac app store. Seriously get a grip.
 
I see it as cheaper = more developers creating **** apps = more trash to weed through = quality to quantity ratio is 1:5000. Unfortunately when all it take is a $100, that's what you get.

No that will not happen. All Mac already ship with the full suite of developer software. xcode, compilers and so on are already on ever Snow Leopard DVD. All the $99 buys you is access to tech support and pre-releases of OS updates.

These prerelease are quite valuable because then you can test you software on the new OS version an see is it breaks and (hopefully) fix it before your users get the OS update.

Small time hobby developers in the past would never pay the $$$ for access to these prerelease so they find out their apps break to same day their users fond out. This can only be a good thing.
 
For anyone who got this new membership, I was wondering if there was any pre-releases of xSAN? I'm thinking of getting an xSAN 2 administration certification, but don't want to waste the time & effort if Apple's going to release xSAN 3 in the coming months.
 
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