Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I enjoy new things. I see even minor changes like removing the headphone jack as Apple willing to try something new, even if it's a minor feature. There's not much wrong with 3.5mm jacks - they are good but just because they are good doesn't mean they are worth keeping forever. I don't hold to the adage of "If it's not broke, don't fix it." I think everything can be improved in some way. Maybe improvement isn't cost-effective or time-effective for some people but I appreciate efforts at it. Maybe removing the headphone jack is not not an improvement but it hasn't made my life any more difficult. The adapter is always plugged into my headphones (I have different sets - all <$15 - one for each of my computers and one for my iPhone). I use Bluetooth in my car. I'll switch over to wireless headphones at some point and then the connector is mainly moot.

I try not to tie myself to one particular technology. I use an iPhone because I like it's features and ecosystem. I used Android phones for years but switched a couple years ago to iOS and haven't looked back. But I'll go back to Android if some company made a phone I was interested enough in switching to (it would have to have good reliability, good resale value, and a great camera).
Ah, but you didn't need to buy an iphone 7 though to experience life without a headphone socket, you could have just used your previous phone but not the socket. A device lacking something cannot be considered a new feature, despite how Apple's marketing team try to spin it!

I am not saying progress is a bad thing, but headphone audio wise, the iphone 7 doesn't do anything that the previous phones can't. My 6S connects to wireless headphones fine, as does my 4S.

I go back to what I said before, I do not believe that anyone found the headphone socket to be such a genuinely negative attribute that they would want to buy an iphone 7 so they could live their life without one.
 
New MBP comes out, MacRumors audience seems to hate it in unison. Everybody convinces themselves that it will be a huge flop.

Q4 2016 numbers come out: actually, it seems to be a success.
MR audience reaction: Must be a fluke. Pent-up demand. Would have been so much higher still if the MBP wasn’t garbage.

Q1 2017 numbers come out: up and to the right again. Pretty clearly, this thing is a success.
MR audience reaction: Fake news! The breakdown must be different than what the analysts who spent actual time and money on this to collect hard data say! I hate it and everybody I don’t know does! I will just assume that shipments include massive returns! I have seen MBPs in the refurbished store, MUST be a flop! Some people really hate it so I assume that nobody can actually like it!

This thread is just a perfect example of how people will just make the wildest leaps of reasoning just to preserve their opinion when confronted with conflicting data.

Yeah, the MBP has some issues (but how many have zero issues and just don’t open their mouth about it?). Yeah, some people hate it (does not mean a lot of people might really like it).
Sure, a different model might have sold even more (how much more though? 15.4% increase is pretty massive).

Still. How hard is it to admit that clearly, your tastes and preferences might not line up with the overall market? The new MBP is a success, whether you like it or not.

And I bet there will be some people who say "it couldn't be a success if Apple have just updated them" IF Apple do update them at WWDC. It was clear to me that it was a success when Phil Schiller mentioned them at the Mac Pro table meeting followed by Tim Cook being happy about the MacBook Pro sales in the earnings call

"We had great Mac results during the quarter. Revenue grew 14 percent to a new March quarter record, and we gained market share thanks to strong demand for our new MacBook Pros. Our Mac business has generated over $25 billion in revenue over the past four quarters."

But putting that aside you are correct in that the majority of people on this forum who seem to hate the new MacBook Pro's do not in fact speak for the majority of consumers.
 
I'd be very interested to see some geographic breakdown of laptop sales. Here in NYC (which is a very expensive place) I see TONS of Mac laptops everywhere. Just anecdotally, you walk into a coffee place and it's probably 75% MacBooks -- but looking at those sales figures, even Asus is selling more laptops than Apple.
 
I'd be very interested to see some geographic breakdown of laptop sales. Here in NYC (which is a very expensive place) I see TONS of Mac laptops everywhere. Just anecdotally, you walk into a coffee place and it's probably 75% MacBooks -- but looking at those sales figures, even Asus is selling more laptops than Apple.

Possible explanation: look at the corporate segment where the non-apple brands are very strong. I hardly see any macbooks at my enterprise customers. And they are buying huge numbers.
 
The touchbar is external but there is a component under the hood which takes up space and which is the reason there is a difference between battery sizes of 13 inch pro with and without touchbar. Sometimes if you don't know something, ask nicely. Don't know why everyone here feels that they can be impolite unnecessarily.
You read impoliteness that wasn't there. I didn't say anything rude or impolite at all.
 
Quite funny how they say that the new Macbook was well received ...?
They can lie to themselves but not to us. The Macbook was one of the worst received hardware ever in Apple history.
So bad that Phil Schiller came a week after release with promotions for the adaptors...
Several of pro users I know that got one actually return them.

That is why the demand for Macbook Air remained strong. Becuase the Macbook Pros are a disaster.

If Macbooks are that good why were the shipments of Macbooks declined 15.8%.

Apple....Time for a reality check...

Innovation in Apple just came down to internal updates...(procesor updates, memory upgrade, etc).
What a shame...
 
Quite funny how they say that the new Macbook was well received ...?
They can lie to themselves but not to us. The Macbook was one of the worst received hardware ever in Apple history.
So bad that Phil Schiller came a week after release with promotions for the adaptors...
Several of pro users I know that got one actually return them.

That is why the demand for Macbook Air remained strong. Becuase the Macbook Pros are a disaster.

If Macbooks are that good why were the shipments of Macbooks declined 15.8%.

Apple....Time for a reality check...

Innovation in Apple just came down to internal updates...(procesor updates, memory upgrade, etc).
What a shame...

Not a disaster at all they have been well received, just because a few people on these forums seem to hate them doesn't mean that the general public's opinion

"our brand new MacBook Pro is in Q1, was about 20 percent growth year over year from the previous year. So again, our notebooks are doing really, really well." Phil Schiller

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/9to5mac.com/2016/11/09/2016-macbook-pro-sales/amp/

The reality is that the new MacBook Pro's have been doing well.
 
No. They probably aren't.
[doublepost=1495460152][/doublepost]
Do you know anyone who bought one and has commented on it? I have a few friends who got various models of the 2016 MBP and they all love it. Hell I would have one right now if I could justify the cost.
I bought one, used it for a month, took it back and got a max spec'd 2015 instead. Furthermore, I travel at least every two weeks for business, and you know what I never see in hotel lounges or airport terminals? The 2016 MBP. Why? Probably for the exact same reason you never bought one: people can't justify the cost.
 
Still we do not have the disaggregated data of Apple's laptop sales.

We do not know, and probably never will, how many:
- new 2015 MB;
- refurbished 2015 MB;
- new 2016 rMBP,
- new 2016 non TB base 15" rMBP (essentially a 2015 rMBP),
- refurbished 2015.

were sold.
THey will never release the Macbook numbers per Product.
Otherwise it will show that the new Macbooks did not sell. Also even if they sold how many were returned?
I bet that the latest Macbook Pro, has the largest numbers of returns of any Apple product.
 
Last edited:
Possible explanation: look at the corporate segment where the non-apple brands are very strong. I hardly see any macbooks at my enterprise customers. And they are buying huge numbers.
Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. My last office was pretty much 100% Dell (blech).
 
New MBP comes out, MacRumors audience seems to hate it in unison. Everybody convinces themselves that it will be a huge flop.

Q4 2016 numbers come out: actually, it seems to be a success.
MR audience reaction: Must be a fluke. Pent-up demand. Would have been so much higher still if the MBP wasn’t garbage.

Q1 2017 numbers come out: up and to the right again. Pretty clearly, this thing is a success.
MR audience reaction: Fake news! The breakdown must be different than what the analysts who spent actual time and money on this to collect hard data say! I hate it and everybody I don’t know does! I will just assume that shipments include massive returns! I have seen MBPs in the refurbished store, MUST be a flop! Some people really hate it so I assume that nobody can actually like it!

This thread is just a perfect example of how people will just make the wildest leaps of reasoning just to preserve their opinion when confronted with conflicting data.

Yeah, the MBP has some issues (but how many have zero issues and just don’t open their mouth about it?). Yeah, some people hate it (does not mean a lot of people might really like it).
Sure, a different model might have sold even more (how much more though? 15.4% increase is pretty massive).

Still. How hard is it to admit that clearly, your tastes and preferences might not line up with the overall market? The new MBP is a success, whether you like it or not.

YOU are just trying to justify a product that was the worst product received in Apple history.
Facts:
1- Apple never showed a detailed numbers per product of how many Macbooks were sold.
2- The shipments actually declined 15.8%. How is that a success??
3- How do you know that most of the Macbooks sold were not from older models? I know many users including me that were waiting for the new Macbook Pro to come out to buy one. As soon as they announced it, I bought the older model. And like me, I know several other users.
4- A product speaks for itself. Specially a bad one like the latest Macbooks Pro.
- You can not connect your own iPhone, iPad.
- Battery issues
- Lack of connectivity
- Limited to 16 Ram.
- Remove the Mag Safe (they have to be really dum-b to remove the best feature the Apple Macbooks Had).

This article tries to help Apple. But not even Phill Schiller with his desperate-lame adaptor discount could help the bad design of the latest Macbook Pro.
 
Not a disaster at all they have been well received, just because a few people on these forums seem to hate them doesn't mean that the general public's opinion

"our brand new MacBook Pro is in Q1, was about 20 percent growth year over year from the previous year. So again, our notebooks are doing really, really well." Phil Schiller

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/9to5mac.com/2016/11/09/2016-macbook-pro-sales/amp/

The reality is that the new MacBook Pro's have been doing well.
That's the Reality Distortion Field, Dave. Apple only releases total Mac sales, and doesn't break it down by model or configuration, so all we have to go in is the word of a man who's paycheck relies on pushing a positive image. The fact remains the 2015 MBP's and MBA's are outselling the 2016 lineup by an embarrassing ratio, and they are the reason for the bump in sales YoY. The TB models have not been received well at all by the user base or the industry, and the only thing pushing the non-TB models are the regular 200-300 discount sales from 3rd party retailers like B&H and Best Buy which started barely a month after the new lineup launched. So basically there is what Phil says, and then there's reality. Best not to confuse the two unless you're on Apple's payroll as well.
 
Not a disaster at all they have been well received, just because a few people on these forums seem to hate them doesn't mean that the general public's opinion

"our brand new MacBook Pro is in Q1, was about 20 percent growth year over year from the previous year. So again, our notebooks are doing really, really well." Phil Schiller

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/9to5mac.com/2016/11/09/2016-macbook-pro-sales/amp/

The reality is that the new MacBook Pro's have been doing well.

Says who... Phill SChiller??? LOL.
Please answer me why he came desperately one week after the release to offer all sorts of discounts on Adaptors, displays, etc??

This is the same person that said that the Mac Pro was the next great thing. At was a complete disaster.

So, yes, you can choose to believe someone that gets paid big money by Apple or make your own decision.

Reality is that many pro users I know, either return them or bought the older model. innovation at Apple has been limited to internal upgrades mainly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jb-net and atikalz
That's the Reality Distortion Field, Dave. Apple only releases total Mac sales, and doesn't break it down by model or configuration, so all we have to go in is the word of a man who's paycheck relies on pushing a positive image. The fact remains the 2015 MBP's and MBA's are outselling the 2016 lineup by an embarrassing ratio, and they are the reason for the bump in sales YoY. The TB models have not been received well at all by the user base or the industry, and the only thing pushing the non-TB models are the regular 200-300 discount sales from 3rd party retailers like B&H and Best Buy which started barely a month after the new lineup launched. So basically there is what Phil says, and then there's reality. Best not to confuse the two unless you're on Apple's payroll as well.

Can we assume you are on Apple's payroll? Otherwise how could you possibly know as "a fact" that 2015 models are outselling 2016 models when Apple doesn't release that breakdown?
 
That's the Reality Distortion Field, Dave. Apple only releases total Mac sales, and doesn't break it down by model or configuration, so all we have to go in is the word of a man who's paycheck relies on pushing a positive image. The fact remains the 2015 MBP's and MBA's are outselling the 2016 lineup by an embarrassing ratio, and they are the reason for the bump in sales YoY. The TB models have not been received well at all by the user base or the industry, and the only thing pushing the non-TB models are the regular 200-300 discount sales from 3rd party retailers like B&H and Best Buy which started barely a month after the new lineup launched. So basically there is what Phil says, and then there's reality. Best not to confuse the two unless you're on Apple's payroll as well.

You can't know that yourself considering Apple doesn't break the numbers down as you said yourself, don't confuse people's dislike on this forum for a general dislike amoungst general consumers. There is no big conspiracy here.
[doublepost=1495485064][/doublepost]
Says who... Phill SChiller??? LOL.
Please answer me why he came desperately one week after the release to offer all sorts of discounts on Adaptors, displays, etc??

This is the same person that said that the Mac Pro was the next great thing. At was a complete disaster.

So, yes, you can choose to believe someone that gets paid big money by Apple or make your own decision.

Reality is that many pro users I know, either return them or bought the older model. innovation at Apple has been limited to internal upgrades mainly.

Because people were complaining about the price of adapters not the MacBook Pro itself at that point. Like I've just posted, there is no conspiracy here, the numbers are there to show that Mac sales were higher and Tim said himself that sales for the 2016 MacBook Pro were higher you can either believe him or not your choice, but it doesn't make the machine a failure.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/05/05/tim-cook-strong-demand-2016-macbook-pro/

Edit: and by the way I don't work for neither am I on or have ever been on Apple's payroll. There is no conspiracy here either!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JMacHack
I think the upcoming price reductions will help this, as well as the due improvements. Although ports is the main weak spot for people when choosing a laptop... even if they don't really use them they like to have them there. Meanwhile the iPad is declining. But I think Apple have got their priorities straight now... kind of.


I like that your post was first because it highlights something that Apple itself doesn't get, ports are important which is likely a big factor in MBA sales. I see these references to the great sales figures of MBA and the rumored shock at Apple HQ and have to wonder if the management team at Apple actually uses their hardware in a non executive role. The reality is one port doesn't do it for most people.

On the other hand we might be seeing TB in a Mac Book. That would make for a very interesting netbook but even somas users can not get buy with such a limited platform. So I'm still hoping the MBA rumors are true, that the machine gets a significant upgrade with decent ports, a bit more performance and maybe even a high resolution screen.
[doublepost=1495486656][/doublepost]
After almost 2 years of no Macbook Pro update, I would have expected much higher sales. Seems like the new Macbook Pro isn't the huge success this article claims. I'm curious to see what Apple does to appease the Pro demographic.
That is because those of us that needed a MacBook Pro bought one when needed and didn't worry about what the nut cases on the internet thought. Seriously guy the hardware Intel had to offer as an ""upgrade"" had almost zero performance improvement capability. There was little incentive for Apple to put new chips in the MacBook Pro for two years.

Now we have a MBP with a new generation of technology that has made an impressive step forward with respect to performance. It isn't even obvious that Kaby Lake will offer a huge improvement in performance but I'm expecting we will see higher integration and maybe a new GPU.

GPU's are interesting in that the rumors of Apple designed GPU's for the ARM chips could also mean Apple designed GPU's for the Macs. That would be one interesting development, this especially if the Apple GPU was developed in partnership with AMD. Ultimately I see Apple having no choice here even if we don't see an Apple GPU this year in Macs. The problem is being able to steer the direction of development especially in the area of AI processing which will become huge in the near future.

To put it another way if Apple isn't working on their own AI processing architecture, likely integrated in to the GPU, they will quickly find themselves at a disadvantage with the rest of the industry. There is a limited time frame here for them to get this into the mainstream. Done right they can lead, done wrong they will forever be trying to catch up.
[doublepost=1495487117][/doublepost]
I don't think it's "surprisingly" strong.
The problem is people at Apple are surprised. This in and of itself is shocking and is a strong indicator that the engineering team and management teams at Apple just don't get customer needs.
The MBA is the last portable that out of the box can charge an iPhone without adapters.

The MB and MBP have become what the Air used to be in terms of eschewing "legacy" technology.

The MBA is the most conventional notebook Apple makes.

It is more of a legacy machine as I really don't think "conventional" fits the bill here. You see I don't disagree with Apple move to USB-C for most ports on the MBP's. It is a forward looking move and works to the advantage for anyone that maintains their machines for more that two years.

Note I used the phrase "most ports", I'm not completely happy with everything they did to the machines. The lack of an SD port me is sinful, again indicating that they don't understand user needs. So I'd rather see the new hardware referred to as forward looking but still a conventional laptop.
[doublepost=1495487669][/doublepost]
I'd love your input on why the new MBP was junk. I'm considering purchasing one this fall for research computing but if you're happier with your two year old MBP, I'd like to know why. I'd love to save some money and just buy an older MBP.

Realize that you are just receiving opinions and as such you can't put too much focus on anyone. That is unless you are trying to justify a position you already have.

As for buying used, that is a smart move in many cases. I know a guy that ran a machine shop that had a phrase he used often: "buy used buy more". It applies to just about everything in life these days. If you let somebody else take the depreciation you end up saving a lot of money and usually don't lose much in performance.
[doublepost=1495487904][/doublepost]
Or MBAs.




The tbMBPs must be selling below expectations for Apple to be constantly trying to lift them up in its sales reports.

Apple needs to be honest in their sales reports or else risking share holder backlash and possible criminal investigation. Beyond that I don't see where they are trying to lift anything in their quarterly reports.

My local Apple Store told me the MBA is its best-selling laptop.
That has been the case for over five years now, almost a decade.
Part of the reason I chose an SE over a 7 was because the latter lacked a headphone jack.

Well that actually makes sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Appleaker
I'd be very interested to see some geographic breakdown of laptop sales. Here in NYC (which is a very expensive place) I see TONS of Mac laptops everywhere. Just anecdotally, you walk into a coffee place and it's probably 75% MacBooks -- but looking at those sales figures, even Asus is selling more laptops than Apple.

That seems to line up with the idea that MacBook Pros are the go-to for people who are more concerned with image, or aren't computer-savvy enough to venture out of what they perceive to be the norm, or a safe bet. It's an easy decision to just buy one and not think about it.

It's like that on university campus right now. There are far fewer Macs than there were a few years ago, but you can see that the arts/social studies students are something like 80% Macs, while it's maybe 20% in the sciences/engineering.
 
I bought one, used it for a month, took it back and got a max spec'd 2015 instead. Furthermore, I travel at least every two weeks for business, and you know what I never see in hotel lounges or airport terminals? The 2016 MBP. Why? Probably for the exact same reason you never bought one: people can't justify the cost.
Well to be fair I couldn't justify the cost of a chrome book right now either. I just don't need a new laptop.
 
I have a few friends who got various models of the 2016 MBP and they all love it. Hell I would have one right now if I could justify the cost.

The cost is the main thing that's hard for me to swallow. It's for work so I can justify the expense, but it was still a lot of dough to be putting out. Touchbar is a meh for me. I neither hate it nor do I love it. I've gotten used to not having physical top row keys even though I'm a developer and the lack of an ESC key really rubbed me the wrong way.

The one thing I absolutely love that I wasn't expecting is the sound. WOW, I never thought audio quality could be this good coming out of a laptop.

The thing I absolutely hate that I wasn't expecting to hate is the new trackpad. 3D touch is awful and the trackpad is way too big for someone with fleshy hands.
[doublepost=1495491568][/doublepost]
I'm surrounded by mac users. I only "know" of a few people via twitter who are happy with theirs.

You can add another one. I'm a developer and I'm mostly happy with my tbMBP. It is indeed the best laptop I've ever owned, but it's also a very irritating laptop at the same time. It's mostly a fabulous machine, but as a power user, the quirks do rub me the wrong way. I have ways around most of them so they're not deal breakers, but given the cost, I feel aggrieved at the imperfections. It's still a mighty fine machine. It's just expensive.
 
Last edited:
Oh, Apple said that about the MacBook Pro? Or just the iMac and the Mac Pro? (hint, it's the second one :p)

Don't take MR comments for actual feedback. People moaned about the Touchbar and the new Macs in general based on the keynote alone. Those who actually bought the machines, loved them.
Most of the 'moaning' was about the price, but other than that it certainly is a gorgeous laptop with a stunning screen. The lack of legacy connectivity seems to be a minor and temporary issue for most users, and one that can easily be remedied with one of the many available third-party docks or the odd dongle. The T-bar will become increasingly useful with new or updated software and Apps.

Here's hoping they can incorporate those 'terraced' batteries (that they had to shelve in the current version) in upcoming iterations, for even better battery life and/or the viability of 32GB of optional memory.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: keysofanxiety
After almost 2 years of no Macbook Pro update, I would have expected much higher sales. Seems like the new Macbook Pro isn't the huge success this article claims. I'm curious to see what Apple does to appease the Pro demographic.

A year and five months (May 2015 to October 2016) is not "almost 2 years".
 
You mean like the incredibly flexible four Thunderbolt 3 ports each of which can support 40 Gb/Sec transfer rates. Which can also be used as USB C ports at v3.1 10 Gb/sec rates? Or the wide gamut DCI P3 display? Or the super fast SSD rates? All in a compact package.

All from 2015? With 20 year old USB A ports?
The MacBook Pro was updated, unlike every other Mac. The issue is that the update comes with its set of issues, ranging from reported battery life problems, to the lack of USB Type-A ports, or any other kind of port that pros need. USB Type-C ports will someday be what we have on all of our desktops, laptops and devices, but we're not there yet, and most if not all of us still have older USB Type-A devices which need something to plug into. Yes, we can use dongles and hubs, but why settle for the hassle when the laptop you have has all the ports you need natively. USB Type-C doesn't really give you much, when there are so few devices which can take advantage of the performance. Some pros will enjoy it, but the rest of us have little use for it. Someday, that will change.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.