Apple Set to Appeal EU Tax Ruling This Week

[SPUY767]

The corporate tax rate in Ireland is 12.5% yet Apple only paid 0.05% effectively

And you're suggesting that a supposedly sovereign nation shouldn't have the option to give a company a lower tax rate as an incentive to build a factory?

That's the problem -- it's very questionable whether any "laws" were broken here, or whether the EU have the power to interfere with Ireland's internal tax affairs at all.

Correct. This is why Britain voted to leave the EU. Instead of trying to control tax rates in member states, the EU should just propose that it has the right to apply an EU level tax rather than meddling in the affairs of member states.

Greece is tango uniform from years of mismanaging its economy, while Ireland has one of, if not the, fastest growing economies in the EU, and somehow they are the ones being mismanaged. . . It's humorous to me how these decisions always go in favor of socialism and never in the direction of the market.

 

[The Mercurian]

And you're suggesting that a supposedly sovereign nation shouldn't have the option to give a company a lower tax rate as an incentive to build a factory?

Yes. Forget you sovereignty Brexiteer rubbish by the way. This is pretty much illegal under Irish competition law, as well as European. Except we cannot prove that they made such a deal because all proceedings from their meetings are secret. Convenient huh ? How many Irish/British/European companies went under because they could not compete with Apple I wonder ?

 

[lowkey]

Complain to the Irish government not the company...
[doublepost=1482145851][/doublepost]

Again the problem is then with Irish government, not with Apple.

No its with both of them. They both entered into arrangements found to be illegal.

 

[niun]

But in the man time they will be destroying their image in Europe.

I think they've pretty much destroyed themselves with the massive price hikes alone.

 

[576316]

I have no sympathy. Apple are openly greedy. Hurts when it comes back to bite you doesn't it, Apple? Stop flaunting your high profit margins if you don't want people to start looking into your tax arrangements. Cough up or reduce prices, bloody thieves.

 

[gertruded]

The special tax breaks and currency manipulations are just socialism for the wealthy. Apple needs to pay its fair share, and in the country where the profits are really made.

 

[kis]

How about not, and just pay what is due as defined by the Irish Law...

Ireland broke the law and Apple paid a ridiculously small amount of taxes - so low that if you don't believe this is suspicious, you must either be insane or you're pretending.

 

[Pike R. Alpha]

Tell me something. Why should EU customers who order their products online, and thus via Ireland, have to pay more for the same products, when Apple pays less tax?

Also. If you (Apple) pay less than the normal amount of tax, in Ireland, then you know that something isn't right. And then to blame the EU is stupid. Remember. If I buy something in Spain, then I am paying the Spanish taxes. Not the Irish tax, and thus they (Apple) should pay the full amount of the country of the resident that orders the product. Nothing less.

 

[kis]

And you're suggesting that a supposedly sovereign nation shouldn't have the option to give a company a lower tax rate as an incentive to build a factory?

By joining the EU, Ireland has signed treaties governing this.

"The Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union prohibits government subsidies to private industry and state-owned companies like airlines and steel manufacturers. The treaty has been interpreted to prohibit financial assistance by means of tax breaks to specific taxpayers or selected classes of taxpayers like multinationals. Prohibited state aid involves a subsidy (“advantage”) directed to a particular class (“selectivity”). A discretionary tax break for a specific multinational is state aid. That is black-letter law in the EU." (from: http://www.forbes.com/sites/leeshep...e-against-apples-irish-tax-deal/#278318847e2b)

what's in question isn't the low taxes Ireland offers companies in general; what's in question is why Ireland offered Apple much better deals than anyone else - and according to EU law (which Ireland has signed to uphold) it's illegal to give unfair advantages to individual companies.

The 14 billion $ they're supposed to pay are no penalty - they're the amount Apple paid less than all other companies who were profiting from low corporate tax in Ireland as well.

 

[Rogifan]

So it hasn't been proven that anybody broke the law but Apple has billions in cash so they should just pay more in tax just because. How stupid is that. Anybody here pay more than they are legally obligated to? Corporations shouldn't even pay tax. Those costs only get passed on to the consumers anyway.

 

[Kaibelf]

Drop the prices of apple products in EU and I might have some sympathy ....otherwise pay up, I have to

Blame your weak currency.

 

[alexgowers]

Drop the prices of apple products in EU and I might have some sympathy ....otherwise pay up, I have to

Totally agree. Considering they're charging for Corp tax and vat etc. The prices are equivalent to other countries where they do pay tax at a reasonable read rate. The EU has the power and means to make them pay their fair rate. I find it disgusting that Apple can't admit it doesn't pay what other smaller companies pay. It's not like they're asking for unreasonable or extortionate amounts, it's just the fair share. It had nothing to do with currency exchange rates either.

 

[apolloa]

What a pathetic company, the EU will wreck them. And deservedly so. They will lose and hopefully be forced to pay Ireland even more.

Apple and other American and none American corporations are a complete joke when it comes to taxes and profits.

 

[Jsameds]

Q4 is coming up for my business in the Netherlands. I have to pay the full load. Its crazy how these system works for those big company's. I have zero sympathy.

So it's simply jealousy then. Your gripe isn't that companies can enjoy these kind of tax breaks, it's because your company can't.

 

[BarcelonaPaul]

Good! After the way in which they put the already overpriced UK prices up a further 20%, I hope that this company rots in hell.
Certainly not the company that I admired many years ago. They thrive on greed.

 

[Jsameds]

Hey Tim, shut-up and pay-up!

They have paid every penny the Irish government asked for.

 

[apolloa]

So it hasn't been proven that anybody broke the law but Apple has billions in cash so they should just pay more in tax just because. How stupid is that. Anybody here pay more than they are legally obligated to? Corporations shouldn't even pay tax. Those costs only get passed on to the consumers anyway.

You do not understand at all what has happened.
Just so you know.

 

[whooleytoo]

Forgive me for my ignorance, but whenever I see this story I can't help but think... if found "guilty" wasn't it Ireland who broke the law?

My understanding(TM) is this:

Apple declared lots of income from many countries through an Irish company. They asked the Irish Revenue or Government how much tax they were liable for, and they replied Apple had to pay tax on Revenue earned in the country. Apple then paid tax on the tiny percentage of the revenue which had been generated in Ireland, and little (nothing?) on the rest.

The EU's assertion that Ireland gave Apple a special deal - the entire basis of their case - seems to be false. That said, there's something rotten about the whole thing. This might just be one of the times where the situation is obviously wrong but because the situation falls into the gaps between various national tax systems, nothing was illegal. Even if it stinks to high heaven.

 

[576316]

Tell me something. Why should EU customers who order their products online, and thus via Ireland, have to pay more for the same products, when Apple pays less tax?

Also. If you (Apple) pay less than the normal amount of tax, in Ireland, then you know that something isn't right. And then to blame the EU is stupid. Remember. If I buy something in Spain, then I am paying the Spanish taxes. Not the Irish tax, and thus they (Apple) should pay the full amount of the country of the resident that orders the product. Nothing less.

It's made even more offensive by their needless hiking of prices across the UK, whilst paying less tax than everyone else and shovelling their profits through Ireland. It's despicable behaviour and it's got to stop. Tim Cook is making himself look more and more like a crook with each passing day.

Tim CROOK? Hmm.

 

[WRChris]

How about Apple pay higher taxes than I do?

How about no taxes and we all take care of ourselves? I don't understand, the article says that Apple paid taxes to Ireland, the eu just decided it wasn't enough?

 

[576316]

They have paid every penny the Irish government asked for.

Corporations should pay the rate of tax for the specific country in which the product was specifically sold. Not shovelled through some offshore company or country. A product is sold in England, it is taxed in England. Not Ireland. Why are companies still getting away with this?

Maybe I'll go into my Apple Store and insist I pay the US price? Can I just go into a store and decide to pay the lowest amount based on whichever country sells it cheapest? No. I can't do that and neither should they.

Apple are thieves and Tim Cook is a crook.

 

[Jsameds]

Corporations should pay the rate of tax for the specific country in which the product was specifically sold. Not shovelled through some offshore company or country. A product is sold in England, it is taxed in England. Not Ireland. Why are companies still getting away with this?

Maybe I'll go into my Apple Store and insist I pay the US price? Can I just go into a store and decide to pay the lowest amount based on whichever country sells it cheapest? No. I can't do that and neither should they.

Apple are thieves and Tim Cook is a crook.

So your problem is with the taxation system, not Apple.

 

[niun]

How about no taxes and we all take care of ourselves? I don't understand, the article says that Apple paid taxes to Ireland, the eu just decided it wasn't enough?

I don't understand after all this time and multiple articles how anyone can not understand.

Ireland broke EU competition laws. Apple was in cahoots. Simple.

 

[The Mercurian]

Tell me something. Why should EU customers who order their products online, and thus via Ireland, have to pay more for the same products, when Apple pays less tax?

Also. If you (Apple) pay less than the normal amount of tax, in Ireland, then you know that something isn't right. And then to blame the EU is stupid. Remember. If I buy something in Spain, then I am paying the Spanish taxes. Not the Irish tax, and thus they (Apple) should pay the full amount of the country of the resident that orders the product. Nothing less.

I think you may be mixing up sales tax with corporate tax. If you buy an iPad in Spain you do pay Spanish sales tax, or in Britain, British sales tax etc. What this is about is not sales tax but tax on corporate profit.

Corporations should pay the rate of tax for the specific country in which the product was specifically sold. Not shovelled through some offshore company or country. A product is sold in England, it is taxed in England. Not Ireland. Why are companies still getting away with this?

Maybe I'll go into my Apple Store and insist I pay the US price? Can I just go into a store and decide to pay the lowest amount based on whichever country sells it cheapest? No. I can't do that and neither should they.

Apple are thieves and Tim Cook is a crook.

Also I think you are thinking more aobut sales tax. Regardless, it is one of the fundamental properties of the EU that a company can operate in each country but only pay tax on corporate profits in its home country, rather than having to set up a company in every country. The benefit is that if I set up a website for my Granny to sell cookies, she can sell to all of Europe without having to set up a company structure in each country, and without having to make 28 different tax returns.

So be careful here. What you are arguing for would put Granny out of business, but have little effect on big companies

 

[mwd25]

By joining the EU, Ireland has signed treaties governing this.

what's in question isn't the low taxes Ireland offers companies in general; what's in question is why Ireland offered Apple much better deals than anyone else - and according to EU law (which Ireland has signed to uphold) it's illegal to give unfair advantages to individual companies.

The 14 billion $ they're supposed to pay are no penalty - they're the amount Apple paid less than all other companies who were profiting from low corporate tax in Ireland as well.

Except they didnt get "better deals than anyone else"
Abbott Labs
Adobe
Facebook
Google
General Electric
Johnson & Johnson
Microsoft
Oracle
Starbucks
Yahoo
all took advantage of what is commonly termed as "The double Irish" Apple has been doing it since the 80's and prior to the E.U even existing. Therefore they got grandfathered in after E.U. tax law took effect. You cant charge someone a tax rate for years......nay, decades, then after the fact, when you dont like it anymore, come back and say, oh, we want more money. Ummm, No. I paid what you told me to pay based on the law. If you dont like the law, change it, dont say we cheated. The E.U. knew very well what has been going on, and allowed it, and is still allowing it with other companies, so its not a Apple only "special deal" They just make more money.
People keep saying,"What if your neighbor got a tax deal like that" Well, conversely, what if the government showed up to your house and said, "Yeah, you know how we said your tax rate has been 12% for the last 10 years? Well, we appreciate you paying what we said you owed, and it seems you filled out the forms correctly and didnt lie,but........we've now decided you should pay 35%, not from now on, but for the last 10 years. So, that will be $12.5 million please" Im sure everyone here would say, "Oh, ok, well fair is fair. If you think now, after the fact I should pay more, ok then"
Come on.