Apple Set to Appeal EU Tax Ruling This Week

[Macist]

The EU needs Ireland to pay up as they want to spunk away the people's money on more grandiose white elephants for elite technocrats to enjoy while Spain had 50% youth unemployment recently, Greece ever worse and Italy at nearly 40%. It's a failed superstate built on empire-building ideas from the last century. No one asked for it - it's a top-down elitist project foisted on Europe's family of nations.

I can decide whether or not to buy Apple's increasingly underwhelming, overpriced wares. I pay for this folly whether I like it or not: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/08/eu-unveils-new-300m-space-egg-hq-europa-brussels/

Hurry up and let's brexit, frexit, irexit, italexit...

 

[niun]

The EU needs Ireland to pay up as they want to spunk away the people's money on more grandiose white elephants for elite technocrats to enjoy while Spain had 50% youth unemployment recently, Greece ever worse and Italy at nearly 40%. It's a failed superstate built on empire-building ideas from the last century. No one asked for it - it's a top-down elitist project foisted on Europe's family of nations.

I can decide whether or not to buy Apple's increasingly underwhelming, overpriced wares. I pay for this folly whether I like it or not: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/08/eu-unveils-new-300m-space-egg-hq-europa-brussels/

Hurry up and let's brexit, frexit, irexit, italexit...

Yeah. Because that cash is going directly to the EU commissioners that are forcing this on Poor old Apple..
This is one of those Fake News things I've been reading about isn't it.. This is how it gets started.

The Cash goes to Ireland and any member states that feel Sales tax should have been paid in said country.
Also, Apple can offset a lot of this if they repatriate large sums of cash back to the US for R&D.

I'm seriously trying to figure out if people on the internet are deliberately obtuse or just taking the...

 

[MacsRgr8]

Ireland broke the law and Apple paid a ridiculously small amount of taxes - so low that if you don't believe this is suspicious, you must either be insane or you're pretending.

Indeed. A legal IRE / EU tax deal or not, paying such low taxes must have raised some eyebrows, come on.

You know when something doesn't feel right.

Tim Cook, our social and political activist, surely must have felt that this wasn't right....

 

[Stella]

How about not, and just pay what is due as defined by the Irish Law...

Its not Irish law, its EU law in this case.

 

[Robstevo]

How about not, and just pay what is due as defined by the Irish Law...

Ok so the Irish are also bound by EU law, so how about just pay what is defined by EU law?(waiting for the fascist eu response even though the Irish was saved by the eu after all the hand outs)

 

[dv8r]

How about not, and just pay what is due as defined by the Irish Law...

How about the country that received bail-out money from both the EU and IMF started collecting their taxes instead?

 

[CB1234]

How about the country that received bail-out money from both the EU and IMF started collecting their taxes instead?

How is apples fault?

 

[niun]

How is apples fault?

You think Apple just blindly stumbled into a 0.005% tax deal?

 

[actinide]

By joining the EU, Ireland has signed treaties governing this.

"The Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union prohibits government subsidies to private industry and state-owned companies like airlines and steel manufacturers. The treaty has been interpreted to prohibit financial assistance by means of tax breaks to specific taxpayers or selected classes of taxpayers like multinationals. Prohibited state aid involves a subsidy (“advantage”) directed to a particular class (“selectivity”). A discretionary tax break for a specific multinational is state aid. That is black-letter law in the EU." (from: http://www.forbes.com/sites/leeshep...e-against-apples-irish-tax-deal/#278318847e2b)

what's in question isn't the low taxes Ireland offers companies in general; what's in question is why Ireland offered Apple much better deals than anyone else - and according to EU law (which Ireland has signed to uphold) it's illegal to give unfair advantages to individual companies.

The 14 billion $ they're supposed to pay are no penalty - they're the amount Apple paid less than all other companies who were profiting from low corporate tax in Ireland as well.

Indeed. Ireland, a member of the EU, should abide to EU's ruling (laws and standards). Honestly, I don't understand the fuss.
e.g. To boost the economy, Belgium gave multinationals a tax break of 700 million EUR. Eventually this decision was overruled by the EU commission. Does EU have to treat Ireland and Apple differently? My first guess is NO.

Blame your weak currency.

1. EUR and USD are quite even (EU +5 % stronger),
2. how do you explain USD GBP,
3. with EUR quoted 1,3 / 1,4 USD back in 2010, ipads were priced at 499 EUR and 499 USD. (base model)

Not "weak" currency but greed.

 

[Kaibelf]

I have no sympathy. Apple are openly greedy. Hurts when it comes back to bite you doesn't it, Apple? Stop flaunting your high profit margins if you don't want people to start looking into your tax arrangements. Cough up or reduce prices, bloody thieves.

1. No one has to sell at a certain profit margin to accommodate your tastes.
2. They shouldn't be called "thieves." They stole nothing from you or anyone else that wasn't willingly given in exchange for goods and services.
3. If you can't afford Apple's products, that's your problem and no one else's.

 

[dv8r]

How is apples fault?

By negotiating and agreeing to deals in violation of EU treaties...

 

[Kaibelf]

Oh come on now... Even the most die hard Apple Kool Aider has to admit that the new products are outrageously overpriced for what they are.

Then buy something else?
[doublepost=1482159399][/doublepost]

By negotiating and agreeing to deals in violation of EU treaties...

Then wouldn't Ireland be the final authority and therefore responsible?

 

[dv8r]

Then buy something else?
[doublepost=1482159399][/doublepost]

Then wouldn't Ireland be the final authority and therefore responsible?

It is Ireland that have been ordered to collect back taxes...

 

[niun]

Then buy something else?

I did. I've not bought any Apple stuff since 2012.

 

[citysnaps]

How about Apple pay higher taxes than I do?

How does that have anything to do with Apple having paid the tax imposed by Irish law?

 

[niun]

How does that have anything to do with Apple having paid the tax imposed by Irish law?

Again.. They didn't.. They paid a special Apple tax, behind the scenes deal according to the investigation.

 

[CB1234]

You think Apple just blindly stumbled into a 0.005% tax deal?

Irish government is happy to collect whatever Apple paid them. If Irish govt. was penalising Apple saying they haven't paid their fair taxes, then that is OK. Irish govt is happy with whatever Apple has paid.

The question I have to ask is why penalise Apple? EU should penalise Irish government for not collecting fair tax. Let the Irish government then penalise Apple to repay.

What next then? EU will look through finances of each and every company in the member states and penalise individual companies to pay taxes which it thinks is fair?

And I don't think anything about how 0.005% came about. You don't know it either. Only Apple and Irish govt knows the correct figure...
[doublepost=1482160227][/doublepost]

By negotiating and agreeing to deals in violation of EU treaties...

Ireland signed upto EU treaty, not Apple. EU should penalise Irish govt if they gave a deal which goes against EU laws...Let Irish govt then restructure or rework their deal with Apple to meet EU regulations..

Don't forget that even Irish govt is appealing against EU ruling, so blaming it all on Apple is just a witch hunt and nothing more.

As I said in another post, will it mean EU will ask every company in the EU states to open their books, so they can decide who has and hasn't paid their far taxes?

Apple is easy target, anything Apple - makes headline news.

 

[niun]

Irish government is happy to collect whatever Apple paid them. If Irish govt. was penalising Apple saying they haven't paid their fair taxes, then that is OK. Irish govt is happy with whatever Apple has paid.

The question I have to ask is why penalise Apple? EU should penalise Irish government for not collecting fair tax. Let the Irish government then penalise Apple to repay.

What next then? EU will look through finances of each and every company in the member states and penalise individual companies to pay taxes which it thinks is fair?

And I don't think anything about how 0.005% came about. You don't know it either. Only Apple and Irish govt knows the correct figure...

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/30/how-...ies-paid-a-0005-percent-tax-rate-in-2014.html

I'm guessing this is what they'l be arguing about in the coming years. If it amounts to illegal state aid then the EU steps in. Thems the rules that Ireland signed up to.
And the EU is penalising Ireland, making them get the Tax at the rate Apple should have been paying - 12.5%.

Apple is easy target, anything Apple - makes headline news.

Makes sense doesn't it. Go after the Big fish, the smaller ones get very worried.
Also the plus side of this is maybe forcing Apple to bring some cash back to the U.S. which is a win, win for the U.S. - every $billion generates around $225 million in taxes.

 

[lowendlinux]

Irish government is happy to collect whatever Apple paid them. If Irish govt. was penalising Apple saying they haven't paid their fair taxes, then that is OK. Irish govt is happy with whatever Apple has paid.

The question I have to ask is why penalise Apple? EU should penalise Irish government for not collecting fair tax. Let the Irish government then penalise Apple to repay.

What next then? EU will look through finances of each and every company in the member states and penalise individual companies to pay taxes which it thinks is fair?

And I don't think anything about how 0.005% came about. You don't know it either. Only Apple and Irish govt knows the correct figure...
[doublepost=1482160227][/doublepost]

Ireland signed upto EU treaty, not Apple. EU should penalise Irish govt if they gave a deal which goes against EU laws...Let Irish govt then restructure or rework their deal with Apple to meet EU regulations..

Don't forget that even Irish govt is appealing against EU ruling, so blaming it all on Apple is just a witch hunt and nothing more.

As I said in another post, will it mean EU will ask every company in the EU states to open their books, so they can decide who has and hasn't paid their far taxes?

Apple is easy target, anything Apple - makes headline news.

According to the last grand thread on this topic the EU is making Ireland collect the back taxes from Apple.

 

[dv8r]

Irish government is happy to collect whatever Apple paid them. If Irish govt. was penalising Apple saying they haven't paid their fair taxes, then that is OK. Irish govt is happy with whatever Apple has paid.

The question I have to ask is why penalise Apple? EU should penalise Irish government for not collecting fair tax. Let the Irish government then penalise Apple to repay.

This is exactly what is happening. Ireland has been ordered to collect back taxes from Apple.

What next then? EU will look through finances of each and every company in the member states and penalise individual companies to pay taxes which it thinks is fair?

There are tax laws in Europe if You have doubts, the Apple case is a test case, as is the Starbucks case against Luxembourg - and its not "which it thinks fair" but what's been written in the tax laws of said country.

And I don't think anything about how 0.005% came about. You don't know it either. Only Apple and Irish govt knows the correct figure...

In 2011, Apple Sales International recorded profits of €16 billion, but under the terms of the tax ruling only around €50 million were considered taxable in Ireland, leaving €15.95 billion of profits untaxed. Apple Sales International paid less than €10 million of corporate tax in Ireland in 2011 – an effective tax rate of about 0.05% on its overall annual profits. In subsequent years, Apple Sales International's profits continued to climb but, under the agreement, its taxable profits in Ireland did not — the effective tax rate decreased to 0.005% in 2014.

 

[CB1234]

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/30/how-...ies-paid-a-0005-percent-tax-rate-in-2014.html

I'm guessing this is what they'l be arguing about in the coming years. If it amounts to illegal state aid then the EU steps in. Thems the rules that Ireland signed up to.
And the EU is penalising Ireland, making them get the Tax at the rate Apple should have been paying - 12.5%.


Makes sense doesn't it. Go after the Big fish, the smaller ones get very worried.
Also the plus side of this is maybe forcing Apple to bring some cash back to the U.S. which is a win, win for the U.S. - every $billion generates around $225 million in taxes.

Agree 100% with your post if it normalises taxes for every company in EU state, but the rhetoric against Apple (just because it is Apple) is just stupidity..

Before Apple, Googles has been making tons of money in the same way, but I cannot remember EU penailisng Google. I am sure there are other big businesses sheltered in Ireland, Holland and some other EU countries.
[doublepost=1482161225][/doublepost]

This is exactly what is happening. Ireland has been ordered to collect back taxes from Apple.



There are tax laws in Europe if You have doubts, the Apple case is a test case, as is the Starbucks case against Luxembourg - and its not "which it thinks fair" but what's been written in the tax laws of said country.



In 2011, Apple Sales International recorded profits of €16 billion, but under the terms of the tax ruling only around €50 million were considered taxable in Ireland, leaving €15.95 billion of profits untaxed. Apple Sales International paid less than €10 million of corporate tax in Ireland in 2011 – an effective tax rate of about 0.05% on its overall annual profits. In subsequent years, Apple Sales International's profits continued to climb but, under the agreement, its taxable profits in Ireland did not — the effective tax rate decreased to 0.005% in 2014.

My original post was against people moaning about Apple not paying taxes and insinuating that Apple is the ONLY guilty party in this whole saga.

I don't care if the tax rate is 0.005% or 500%. If law in Ireland stipulate Apple to pay 500% or 0.005% then so be it. Apple paid in full what they believe to be their fair tax to Irish government. And apparently Irish govt. agrees.

 

[lowendlinux]

Agree 100% with your post if it normalises taxes for every company in EU state, but the rhetoric against Apple (just because it is Apple) is just stupidity..

Before Apple, Googles has been making tons of money in the same way, but I cannot remember EU penailisng Google. I am sure there are other big businesses sheltered in Ireland, Holland and some other EU countries.
[doublepost=1482161225][/doublepost]

My original post was against people moaning about Apple not paying taxes and insinuating that Apple is the ONLY guilty party in this whole saga.

I don't care if the tax rate is 0.005% or 500%. If law in Ireland stipulate Apple to pay 500% or 0.005% then so be it.

I imagine this is the trial balloon for the rest, the EU has no love for Google either.

 

[CB1234]

I imagine this is the trial balloon for the rest, the EU has no love for Google either.

It's a pity, because EU is becoming a giant elephant which will trip over itself in the long term... I have no love for big corporations who hide and avoid taxes, but I have even a greater hatred for bureaucrats (specially in EU) who will waste majority of the tax collected on something totally useless...

 

[niun]

It's a pity, because EU is becoming a giant elephant which will trip over itself in the long term... I have no love for big corporations who hide and avoid taxes, but I have even a greater hatred for bureaucrats (specially in EU) who will waste majority of the tax collected on something totally useless...

I would hope that Ireland would do something useful with the cash. 13billion would do some amazing things for schools and hospitals.

 

[macfacts]

And you're suggesting that a supposedly sovereign nation shouldn't have the option to give a company a lower tax rate as an incentive to build a factory?


...

1. The summary in the first post says apple's holding company has zero employees.

2. Ireland is part of a union with rules.

3. One of those rules is "no state aid". If Ireland wants to to give low tax rates, it has to give the same low rate to all Irish companies. Can't give special rates to apple.