TCs reaction to this reminds me more and more of Mr Burns and his Trillion dollar bill...
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Set to Appeal EU Tax Ruling This Week
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Well, the Swiss Franc has been very strong and we're paying the same insane prices. Good luck Apple, you're losing your most loyal customers. They're redefining the meaning of greed.
I would encourage those who have yet to do so to take a look at the type of structures Apple and others use to generate the tax benefits. They are very complex. Apple's specific arrangement is embedded in the EU commission materials which were made available when the initial decision was handed down. When you look at how it works and the transactions that it generates, the question you need to ask, in my view, is this: Do these arrangements reflect the commercial reality of doing business in, say, the EU or are they arrangements specifically designed to suck trading profit that would otherwise have been earned in multiple jurisdictions and relocate them elsewhere to take advantage of beneficial rulings?
In my view, it's hard to look at it as anything other than the latter. It's not hard to conclude that arrangements like those that Apple and others may use are effectively arrangements designed solely to reduce tax. It's easy to see them as a smash and grab on the tax revenues of (in this case) up to 27 other EU member states - with Ireland driving the getaway car. Apple and others who use them do, of course, pay payroll and indirect taxes in those other member states - but structures like those Apple and others used are built to relocate profits and corporate income tax out of the other member states entirely.
Looking at it this way puts some color on Tim Cook's statement that the EU commission position and others like it are "total political crap". It really isn't. Whether or not the EU prevails, their position is far from untenable and I think they are justified in taking action. It's up to Ireland, the EU and Apple to work that out. My sense is the EU will get what it wants, but time will tell.
You may also wish to consider for a moment why there are no Apple Stores in Ireland - its supposed EU hub/HQ. The answer, I believe, can largely be found in the tax structure in question...
In my view, it's hard to look at it as anything other than the latter. It's not hard to conclude that arrangements like those that Apple and others may use are effectively arrangements designed solely to reduce tax. It's easy to see them as a smash and grab on the tax revenues of (in this case) up to 27 other EU member states - with Ireland driving the getaway car. Apple and others who use them do, of course, pay payroll and indirect taxes in those other member states - but structures like those Apple and others used are built to relocate profits and corporate income tax out of the other member states entirely.
Looking at it this way puts some color on Tim Cook's statement that the EU commission position and others like it are "total political crap". It really isn't. Whether or not the EU prevails, their position is far from untenable and I think they are justified in taking action. It's up to Ireland, the EU and Apple to work that out. My sense is the EU will get what it wants, but time will tell.
You may also wish to consider for a moment why there are no Apple Stores in Ireland - its supposed EU hub/HQ. The answer, I believe, can largely be found in the tax structure in question...
Ye 'Brits' have enough to worry about. Enjoy the calm before the storm
It's the calm before the biggest party on the planet ever as we tell the EU and its draconian stupid backward dictatorial laws to F off!
Yeah, good luck. Soon you'll be with paying 1500£ for an iPad with the pound being worth diddly squat after Brexit. Good riddance I'd say. Enjoy isolation.
Or the EU will make the UK an "example" for others and won't give them same benefits. We'll see
If Ireland want to be part of the EU then they have to play by EU rules, and the judgement at this point in time is that they have not.
Well considering the pound has gone back up in value I would imagine people will not be complaining about Apple ripping them off, whilst Apples sales and profits take a hit.
Isolation hahaha it's funny when people haven't got a clue
Apparently your country is about to be invaded by Russia so not sure why your glaoting good riddance if we had to come and save your ass!
[doublepost=1482190509][/doublepost]
I doubt they'll end up making an example as we could just walk away and join the WTO and sign free trade deals with the Commonwealth, America, China, Japan and so on and on.. bad for a few years but after that no EU laws and a very prospering UK.
That is putting a huge amount of faith in a government that can't even keep the trains running.
Tie that in with an election smack bang in the middle of negotiations and things will become very messy indeed.
Sorry but the election isn't till 2020 and the government doesn't run the trains anymore, corporations do.
You think this will be cleared up by 2020? Time will tell on that one. Lets see where we are in March.
The corporations run the trains but people will blame the government.
No people do not blame the government when 'Virgin' trains are late! And it had to be concluded by 2019 as that's written in the article 50 rules. Any other questions?
The article 50 has to be concluded by 2019.. That's the seemingly easy part.
The multiple trade negotiations, numerous laws - something our best legal minds have stated we have virtually no idea how to tackle without outside help and the overwhelmingly huge task of getting that all in play will take far longer than article 50 - best guess is a decade.
That's the positive outlook if Europe goes easy on us.
No people don't blame the government when the trains are late. I didn't say TRAINS BEING LATE.. Strikes are a different kettle of fish. Government has to step in to get the country running again. If they fail they look weak.
People remember that come election time.
pennies is all they paid! while breaking both Irish & EU law.
Facebook isn't doing quite what Apple is doing, but one look at the Facebook numbers below should illustrate what's going on in Ireland in relation to tax and give an inkling why the EU Commission is taking action against Ireland.
Last year, Facebook (Ireland):
Reported €7.89bn in Irish Revenue. This represents approximately 50% of Facebook's total global revenue being funneled through Ireland.
Recorded just €77.5m in staff costs in Ireland
Had €7.7bn recorded as an expense. Under the typical Irish tax arrangements, this would broadly be payments made outside of Ireland but within the corporate group to shift profit (again) to an non-resident offshore/stateless entity with the net result that the profit broadly vanishes.
In short, FB paid just €16.53m in income tax in Ireland on just under €8bn in Irish "revenue".
Numbers here, and comments from FB that broadly mirror those from Apple and others under the microscope.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/we-do-not-avoid-tax-insists-facebook-35289024.html
Looking at it this way, it's not hard to see why the EU Commission and other EU member states have a hard time with this and with Ireland.
Last year, Facebook (Ireland):
Reported €7.89bn in Irish Revenue. This represents approximately 50% of Facebook's total global revenue being funneled through Ireland.
Recorded just €77.5m in staff costs in Ireland
Had €7.7bn recorded as an expense. Under the typical Irish tax arrangements, this would broadly be payments made outside of Ireland but within the corporate group to shift profit (again) to an non-resident offshore/stateless entity with the net result that the profit broadly vanishes.
In short, FB paid just €16.53m in income tax in Ireland on just under €8bn in Irish "revenue".
Numbers here, and comments from FB that broadly mirror those from Apple and others under the microscope.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/we-do-not-avoid-tax-insists-facebook-35289024.html
Looking at it this way, it's not hard to see why the EU Commission and other EU member states have a hard time with this and with Ireland.
Last edited:
I think that proves that this system is really "sick". Can't blame other countries and the EU, but I think that Ireland is also a victim here as they had become corporations' bi**... I mean hostage
Ireland gives them unfair benefits and in return they create some jobs and pay laughable taxes. I don't know how exactly does it look in Ireland, but we have similar situation in Poland: a big corporation comes in announcing they want to open up a factory and the government or local authorities give them nice benefits. What we get in return is the creation of a couple hundred, sometimes a 1000 simple, low income jobs. Which is better than nothing, but on the other hand it doesn't move the community forward as the company can move the factory East and people will go back where they were.
Nope. Australia made a trade deal with the US in just 18 months. A lot if it is scare mongering rubbish, your wrong on the strikes too.
Not going to say anymore as this isn't the thread to discuss the EU in depth really...
Last edited:
You think America, China, Japan are just going to roll over and give you good terms. Why would they ? The UK alone is too small for them to care that much about - you just don't have a big enough market for them to be that bothered. More likely you will make a weak ass deal with China, because that is all they will offer you and there will be a sweetener in it for the British establishment, and then get flooded with cheap Chinese goods, that you are currently protected from by European trade deals, putting even more British firms out of business.
History is on my side regarding strikes.
Might be scaremongering. Might be the fact that the UK is so fractured. If it was just England then we might be ok but with Ireland, Scotland and Wales pulling at the reigns it's not going to be a smooth ride.
Might also have something to do with huge bag of lies and already discarded promises spread by the leave campaign.
Anyhoo, this has already resulted in an unelected leader making all the decisions for the UK. Weird considering it was unelected politicians making decisions for the UK that was a huge issue in the first place.
But I do hope your optimistic view wins through.
