CB1234
macrumors 6502a
If Apple was made to spend this cash on benefits of Irish community, I am pretty sure they would do a better job then any government bureaucrats.....
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Set to Appeal EU Tax Ruling This Week
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
If Apple was made to spend this cash on benefits of Irish community, I am pretty sure they would do a better job then any government bureaucrats.....
Not the same way.
This whole legal case is based on the fact that Apple's specific tax accounting structure has been approved by Irish authorities and therefore the deal is specific to Apple (which Ireland and Apple are saying is not the case or not valid but then of course as the parties found guilty or being impacted they will dispute the legal argument, which doesn't mean they are right in disputing it).
I think what you are mentioning is that on top of this specific legal battle there also is a wider political one against tax avoidance, and you don't understand why Apple is being targeted first (I have no doubt others are coming next). I think the simple answer is that the EC is going after the biggest and easiest fish first: they had good legal arguments against apple and given the company's size and exceptional mastery in using tax loopholes the EC knows they will be making a statement. It is a very understandable strategy really: if Apple's credit and collections team is looking at chasing bad payers, they would also start off with focusing resources on the worst offenders, largest accounts, and the ones they have the mosts legal/practical arguments against to force them to comply.
Last edited:
macfacts
macrumors 603
Apple's lawyers must suck if they have to pay about $14 billion when there is zero proof ....
Or maybe there is proof and you haven't read it.
From my experience working with similar multinational companies, they can be efficient and do good things but the problem is they would only spend as little as possible on projects which give them as much positive publicity as possible (which is fair enough for such organisation but is not what public service should be about). This is why you need the government bureaucrats even though they are not always the most efficient: when it comes to delivering infrastructure or services to local communities governments don't only focus on small "sexy" short term high return projects as a for profit organisation would.
Last edited:
niun
macrumors 6502a
I'm not sure.. It'd pay for a crap load of Indonesian bribes... Sorry, R&D.
Apple has to answer to the shareholders - (of which I am one - full disclaimer). Governments have to answer to the general public.
Of course, thinking about it.. That is no guarantee.
Last edited:
Atlantico
macrumors 6502
I'm going to chalk this post up to lack of reading comprehension. See, being an Apple fanboi is fine and all, but it don't make ya smart, y'all.
CB1234
macrumors 6502a
Bribes are paid to "Government bureaucrats", just because it happens in Indonesia or other 3rd world countries, doesn't mean it doesn't happen in EU....
These same bureaucrats who are "grand standing" against Apple, will long since be retired by the time court gives it final judgement on legality of this penalty against Apple/Ireland. Whether these bureaucrats did right or wrong, they won't be answering to any public, they will be long gone..
EwanMcTeagle
macrumors 6502
But that won't give Apple the access to the EU market and thus would mean Apple products wouldn't be competitive in the EU. I don't know about taxes, but I guess that wouldn't satisfy Apple as well 🙂 They might open another fictional Apple offspring company in the UK to sell solely in the UK, but that adds costs - mainly for lawyers hired to figure out ways to avoid UK's taxes. And they're already paying lawyers to help them avoid taxes in the EU.
niun
macrumors 6502a
Heh maybe. Had Apple set up Brussels HQ this might not have been an issue.
Speaking as a member of the general public I'm glad the EU finally got their finger out and started poking around.
If anything I hope this shut's up Apple's, holier than thou message.
CB1234
macrumors 6502a
dv8r
macrumors 6502
We have yet to see what kind of association agreement the UK will get with the EU. Norway is a part of the internal markets and incorporates roughly 75% of all directives into their own laws. I can see the same thing being worked out for the UK.
niun
macrumors 6502a
Considering the clusterfudge that is going on over a Whitehall I'm guessing the only thing the UK is going to get out of the EU is a t-shirt and maybe a, "good luck" gift basket.
EwanMcTeagle
macrumors 6502
Where did I say that only Apple avoids taxes?
The thing is, people are fed up with the way the world works. Because it works against them in a way. The public paid the costs of financial crisis: in the US, in Ireland and other countries. Meanwhile those responsible got bailouts.
The leaked Panama Papers proved that the rich get richer (companies, celebrities etc) by doing tax acrobatics. Apart from being unethical it's also unfair, because being able to pay low taxes depends on how rich you or a company is. A small, local company who would like to manufacture smartphones wouldn't have the same tax possibilities as Apple simply because they wouldn't be able to afford. The same with celebrities like Messi or Ronaldo. I simply can't afford evading taxes like they do.
And that's why "the people" are saying: enough. Because their effective tax rate is multiple times higher that those who make X times the money and who also benefit way more heavily from "public" infrastructure etc.
Back to the case in question:
No one is saying Apple should be taxed to death. They should've paid 12,5% tax in Ireland. They've paid 0,005%. And the case the EU is making is that was under a special agreement which equals "state aid" given by Ireland. And that's forbidden because it gives Apple advantage in an "equal" capitalistic market of the EU.
I'm sure that if Google, Facebook and John's Bakery had several arrangements then they will eventually be in the same situation as Apple. But now it's about Apple.
This isn't a case of whether I can or cannot afford Apple's products. It's about people blindly opening their wallets without realising they're just justifying Apple's madness which cannot be allowed to continue. Also Apple giving very, very little back to the community as a whole. They take and take and take, because people like you are gullible enough to buy their bullcrap.
More likely they would "invest" it in a Cayman Islands infrastructure project (still better than the civil servants could do though).
lowendlinux
macrumors 603
Why would the EU grant those privledges to the UK which helped build the EU then backed out? Dyson vacuums because Ms. May is hot? The UK offers nothing in negotiations to the EU other than a fractured populous and vacuums.
Zirel
Suspended
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=EUR&view=5Y
Euro is worthless.
If you can't afford a MBP, you can't. The previous one wasn't cheap either.
As the year is winding down, I am beginning to gather all my paperwork for tax time. I like to get that over with early so I can move on to other things in 2017. I work through all the tax laws and I do everything I can to ensure that I pay what I am supposed to pay. In the process, however, I look for every ability to leverage the tax law to reduce my liability wherever possible. There is no credit or deduction too small for me. I will carry over losses from last year and ensure I am using the tax law to my advantage as much as possible. If you say I am using loopholes to pay less, well, sure I am as long as it's legal. For Apple, they did the same thing and took full advantage of tax laws in Ireland. If the people of Ireland feel they are not getting their fair share, they should change the tax law and begin to collect what is required. But to punish a company retroactively based on a disqualification of a law years later by a foreign entity is a very dangerous thing. If someone comes to me and says that the IRS has changed a rule and that I now owe back taxes and penalties, it would really get ugly.
My take is that if this is a problem change the law and force apple to pay 100% taxes going forward, or whatever the number is. Regardless of how this goes down, I would not be surprise to see the tax revenue in Ireland actually go down as companies decide to move because of this.
My take is that if this is a problem change the law and force apple to pay 100% taxes going forward, or whatever the number is. Regardless of how this goes down, I would not be surprise to see the tax revenue in Ireland actually go down as companies decide to move because of this.
niun
macrumors 6502a
I don't understand how people are still confused by this. Ireland and Apple broke an EU law. It's taken a long time for the EU to get to the point of taking action. It'll take even longer to get this wrangled through the courts.
The corporate structure Apple put in place to avoid the tax in Ireland is incredibly complex. The EU Law is incredibly simple.
mossy
macrumors regular
MH01
Suspended
It's okay, I use British pesos...just wait till mark, Europeans invade London each week for shopping.
You are correct. Apple didn't do the traditional Double Irish, they went further.
It's also not clear to me whether Apple actually has any jurisdiction to appeal right now. It would be more likely that Apple's appeal would be against an assessment from the Irish tax authorities which more likely than not hasn't been raised yet. Ireland can and has appealed the EU ruling, I'm far from certain that Apple has the jurisdiction to do that yet.
Last edited:
Maybe it's because he feels that if he is paying back to society so it can afford hospitals, infrastructure, welfare etc., so should other companies/individuals...