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The ship dates on Apple's web site have all ready slipped to the 3rd week of November. A friend of mine at work is getting his tomorrow and ordered last week.

I ordered at 8AM launch day from the VZW site and had my phone launch day. Work friend wanted to know how I got it so quick.

The 12 Pro's are proving to be a popular item this year...
 
I am really dubious about Apple Glass. I have been playing around with the iPhone 12 Pro, and AR is still so bad. Things still don't "stick" perfectly, there is noticeable lag when moving the iPhone, and the phone gets crazy hot. The improvements necessary to make something like Apple Glass work seem so far away.
I hear you... I think these rumors about launching 2021 or 2022 or even 2023 are too optimistic, at least in terms of something that is really compelling. However, in the 5-10 year window I think we will finally start to see some truly "magical" new AR devices.

I love the approach that Apple is taking, introducing one new element of our AR future at a time. ARKit, more powerful neural networks (AX bionic), more efficient graphics (Metal), camera/ISP improvements, U1, LiDAR, spatial audio, hi-res displays (micro-level, eventually), Siri (still iffy lol), motion/gesture tracking (watch and MX chips), power efficiency improvement across the board... All of these will eventually be foundational to a truly compelling AR/VR experience.
 
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- brighter display
- extra camera
- Apple ProRaw
- Dolby vision
- Lidar
- 2GB of Ram
- More luxurious back and frame

I would like to argue these differences are bigger then a 11 pro vs 12 pro update >.<
Dolby vision is available on both. Albeit 30 vs 60 FPS. “Luxurious” back and frame is debatable, I don’t feel “the luxury” in my 11 pro max. I would argue that 6.1 iPhone 12 and 6.1 pro are extremely alike, but, to each it’s own :)
 
We’re on phones 5-6 hours a day. More and more people are willing to shell out more for their companions. Especially now that they’ve learned to sell them used, and recoup a large cut of the investment.

Spot on assessment. It's an essential product. And for those that keep their phones for three years, such as myself, that works out to less than $1 per day.
 
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Do the 12 Pro and 12 Pro Max use exactly the same Lidar chips? Hence delayed 12 Pro Max launch currently snaffling Lidar chips and slowing up 12 Pro builds.

(Feeling grumbly my 12 Pro order shows no sign of arriving before 09/11/2020. :( )
It'll arrive before you know it and, coming from a 6, it will be worth the wait. Enjoy!
 
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It is better to be a Pro. Shooting higher quality pictures is always better.

The next iPad Pro should also get much better cameras.
 
The regular 12 is just pointless to be honest, they should have just simplified the lineup with the 12 mini, 12 pro and 12 pro max.
Finally somone else who agrees with me. I have been on many forums saying this and get blasted every time. There are literally articles on cult of mac saying there is no need for the pro because the 12 is ”that good.” I couldn’t disagree more. The price difference is just not great enough to make the 12 a “value” any more compared to the pro. The difference on a carrier plan is 6-8 a month so i agree 100 percent, there is no reason to get the standard 12 this year. The pro is actually the more “value” when you consider the 12 starts at 800 with only 64gb. Loving my pro
 
Are you really stupid? checkout apple.nl....you can see the numbers yourself. The iphone 11 didnt drop in price since the release of the 12, so you can still compare.
The 11 did drop in price and you added 50€ to the 12 price.
 
Who'd have thought that raising the price of the regular iPhone 12 to within $120 of the Pro (for the same storage tier, and ignoring the $30 "instant discount" when buying a carrier phone directly from Apple) would lead to many more people going with the Pro? 😉 I doubt that Apple is caught off guard by the demand; I suspect they have allocated a lot of component supply to Pro Max production and the LiDAR chip is supply constrained. The 12 is simply not the relative bargain that the 11 was (bigger screen, longer-lasting battery, and $300 cheaper than the Pro? A steal! OLED vs LCD probably wasn't a huge selling point for many users).
 
The regular 12 is just pointless to be honest, they should have just simplified the lineup with the 12 mini, 12 pro and 12 pro max.
Or 12 Mini Pro, 12 Pro, 12 Pro Max. This idea that people who want a small screen also want ***** features is infuriating. Similarly, the idea that people who want a big screen must also want high power pro features.

There's no reason at all that Apple couldn't have released 12 Mini, 12, 12 Max, 12 Mini Pro, 12 Pro, 12 Pro Max.

And MacBook Air 12", 14", 16", and MBP 12", 14", 16".
 
The real reasons the 12 Pro is selling so well are:

1) The price between the 12 and the 12 Pro isn't that much relatively, if you can afford a 12, then you can afford a 12 Pro. The 12 Pro got a price drop over the 11 Pro, and the 12 got a price increase over the 11.

2) The coolest new colours are only on the 12 Pro, with the 12 stuck with lame outdated pastels.

3) The new form factor will likely stay around for years. You can pay extra for a Pro now and keep it for years and it will still look like late model kit.

I'm not one bit surprised the 12 Pro is outselling the 12.

As an aside, I think there are a lot of people who want the Mini size, particularly women, and I bet they are furious that they can't get a Pro Mini, with the nice camera and nice colours. I think Apple dropped the ball with this one.
 
So the lack of charger and pods didn't really affect phone sales of the iphone 12?
Because only Apple can do this, even with less stuff and more price increases each year, people are don't mind to shell out their money for latest iPhone. Usually start with denial and kvetching at first time, but in the end they still bought it eventually.

I assume when iPhone 13/14/15 released without any ports, no physical button, not include anything except device itself, it still sell like hotcakes...
 
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The real reasons the 12 Pro is selling so well are:

1) The price between the 12 and the 12 Pro isn't that much relatively, if you can afford a 12, then you can afford a 12 Pro. The 12 Pro got a price drop over the 11 Pro, and the 12 got a price increase over the 11.

2) The coolest new colours are only on the 12 Pro, with the 12 stuck with lame outdated pastels.

3) The new form factor will likely stay around for years. You can pay extra for a Pro now and keep it for years and it will still look like late model kit.

I'm not one bit surprised the 12 Pro is outselling the 12.

As an aside, I think there are a lot of people who want the Mini size, particularly women, and I bet they are furious that they can't get a Pro Mini, with the nice camera and nice colours. I think Apple dropped the ball with this one.
I gave serious consideration to skipping over to Android (or whatever variant). Ended up that I would be laying out a lot of money for something which did not convince.

Colour is no issue for me. Yes, of course I have preferences, but not enough to change model. (Having not seen any in reality, I had to decide based on general experience of the real world and photos.)

I don't care if it does, or does not, look like late model kit. (If I did, I wouldn't still have a 6s.) This is one reason I didn't want Pacific Blue. It is too tied to this specific model - even if Apple continue to make it available into the future.

You point 1) sums it up. I'd hate to have paid the price of a 12 and then regretted not getting the 12 Pro. (Mind, I made the decision based on features I want - not just potential regret.)
 
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Or 12 Mini Pro, 12 Pro, 12 Pro Max. This idea that people who want a small screen also want ***** features is infuriating. Similarly, the idea that people who want a big screen must also want high power pro features.

There's no reason at all that Apple couldn't have released 12 Mini, 12, 12 Max, 12 Mini Pro, 12 Pro, 12 Pro Max.

And MacBook Air 12", 14", 16", and MBP 12", 14", 16".
I agree with you in theory, but I would guess 1) the market and 2) hardware constraints have led Apple to their current "Pro = large" philosophy. Basically... Professionals may be more likely (on average, not across the board) to want a larger canvas to work with, and packing in more power and features requires larger space and batteries, which naturally lends to getting bigger devices on that end of the spectrum.

All that is to say, I think there are valid reasons against a 12 Pro Mini. However, I completely agree that there should be a 12 Max (non-pro). Lots of market for it (older folks with bad eyesight, casual gamers/artists, binge streamers, etc.) that aren't going to care about RAM or stainless steel or dolby vision frame rates or whatever.
 
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I agree with you in theory, but I would guess 1) the market and 2) hardware constraints have led Apple to their current "Pro = large" philosophy. Basically... Professionals may be more likely (on average, not across the board) to want a larger canvas to work with, and packing in more power and features requires larger space and batteries, which naturally lends to getting bigger devices on that end of the spectrum.

All that is to say, I think there are valid reasons against a 12 Pro Mini. However, I completely agree that there should be a 12 Max (non-pro). Lots of market for it (older folks with bad eyesight, casual gamers/artists, binge streamers, etc.) that aren't going to care about RAM or stainless steel or dolby vision frame rates or whatever.
I have no doubt the market for the models I suggested are smaller than the market for the models they do produce, and might even be trivial for Apple. But I would very very happily take on that part of the business if Apple don't want it, and I'm sure I'd make enough to be retired in a matter of weeks or months. And even if it is chicken feed for Apple, it's about creating great products for the customers.

Talking about pros, well I am a professional software developer, and I need the portability of a laptop, but it doesn't have to be super light, and I want the biggest screen I can get (I used to use a 17" MBP back when they existed). But modern processors are all super computers these days, and I'm not doing any graphics processing, and the software I write doesn't have any massive compile times, so the bottom spec processor and graphics option of a MBA is well and truely enough for me. I do however run a lot of large software packages simultaneously, and although none of them need much cpu power, they do soak up a decent chunk of RAM and SSD. So for me, I need a big screen, largish RAM (16GB suffices at present, but 32GB is only around the corner, and 8GB is not enough), largish SSD (1TB is barely enough, 2TB+ would be needed soon), basic processor and graphics. Do see my point - I'm a pro, but I don't have the needs that Apple tries to shoehorn me into (which costs a damn huge amount). And I'm a pretty typical software dev, and there are a hell of a lot of us that use MacBooks, and a damn lot of us would be very happy with a 16" MBA with bigger RAM and SSD options (which don't take up any extra physical space, Apple simply hasn't made the options available, and you can't self upgrade after purchase anymore (don't get me started on that!!!)). Currently, the only choice I have that Apple sells right now is a 16" MBP, and because I can't upgrade the RAM and SSD after I've bought it, I would either put 16GB/1TB in it, knowing that I'll have to upgrade soon and have to sell it and buy a new one; or put 32GB/2TB in it. Both options are incredibly expensive. So for now, I happily sit on my 2015 15" rMBP with 16GB and 1TB (which I have already upgraded, and could well upgrade again to 2TB before I buy a new laptop), and wait for Apple to make something that has the specs I need, but doesn't massively and unfairly eat into my snowboarding budget (oh, and doesn't have weird flaws, but I'm not holding my breath on that one). The reality is, I will probably use this laptop until it dies, begrudgingly buy a new overpriced machine, hold onto it for 7 or 8 years, and repeat.
 
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I gave serious consideration to skipping over to Android (or whatever variant). Ended up that I would be laying out a lot of money for something which did not convince.

Colour is no issue for me. Yes, of course I have preferences, but not enough to change model. (Having not seen any in reality, I had to decide based on general experience of the real world and photos.)

I don't care if it does, or does not, look like late model kit. (If I did, I wouldn't still have a 6s.) This is one reason I didn't want Pacific Blue. It is too tied to this specific model - even if Apple continue to make it available into the future.

You point 1) sums it up. I'd hate to have paid the price of a 12 and then regretted not getting the 12 Pro. (Mind, I made the decision based on features I want - not just potential regret.)
I get you on the Androids, I also looked into that, and realised they aren't any cheaper if you want something that works well. And nothing really stands out as a winner, so stuck with the devil I know, and got a 2020 SE a couple of months ago. I was holding off due to the removal of the jack (I was still on a 6 I bought brand new many many years ago ha ha), but was swayed by the experiences of a few friends with AirPods, and seeing how convenient and well designed they are. And yep, the SE looks just like the 6 it replaced, and like you, I'm not super fashion driven, so am fine with it. But that's not to say I aren't aware of the sexiness of a new 12 Pro, and that I wouldn't buy one if it wasn't for my income going down the toilet somewhat since covid. Thankfully that's back on the rise!
 
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I get you on the Androids, I also looked into that, and realised they aren't any cheaper if you want something that works well. And nothing really stands out as a winner, so stuck with the devil I know, and got a 2020 SE a couple of months ago. I was holding off due to the removal of the jack (I was still on a 6 I bought brand new many many years ago ha ha), but was swayed by the experiences of a few friends with AirPods, and seeing how convenient and well designed they are. And yep, the SE looks just like the 6 it replaced, and like you, I'm not super fashion driven, so am fine with it. But that's not to say I aren't aware of the sexiness of a new 12 Pro, and that I wouldn't buy one if it wasn't for my income going down the toilet somewhat since covid. Thankfully that's back on the rise!
Am still using a 6s. 12 Pro should arrive Monday. :)

And I use Xiaomi ear pods - entirely satisfactory for my purposes and cheap.

The killer on Android is support. Who thinks they can guarantee full Android support on a Huawei? Will Xiaomi, even with the best endeavours, actually be able to support the operating system for five years? With the possibility of bitter trade wars, we can't bank on long term support.

Hope the income stays on the rise!
 
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