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Well we were talking about a product that is better than what we have today. Right now, that isn't the case. You could be right of course, but people have been talking about the iPad and Mac converging for years now and Apple has always had a stance - they don't want to create a hybrid product that isn't fully optimized for the form factor. It wouldn't surprise me if they continued this stance, but we will see.
Of course, it remains to be seen. But we also know of recent Apple patents for flexible displays. Patents don't mean anything is inevitable, but seeing that there is enormous potential in foldable smartphones, it would be common sense to believe Apple will throw their hat in the ring in the near future in this category.
 
Apple's "core business" used to be the Macintosh. Then it was the iPod. Now it is the iPhone. It will likely next be Services.

Even with the huge drop, they still posted their third best quarter in company history so the underlying fundamentals still seem to be strong.

During the iPod, there was still Mac to fall back. Apple has been putting the all money in iPhone and slacking in other products. They need to be careful, they could be the future of blackberry.
 
Couldn’t disagree more. What it means is that people see value in buying Apple products. From YOUR (biased) point of view you believe customers pay more for Apple products than a similar product from another manufacturer. From an apple customer point of view (such as myself), Apple has a higher value to cost ratio than the competitors.

But only less and less number of customers value (with reduced sales volume), yes their valuation becoming more expensive each and every year....
 
The solution is simple. INCREASE THE PRICES MORE, AGAIN;)

If Huawei and Samsung charging 2K for a foldable phone. I would expect Apple is 3-4k dollars. It would be the fastest foldable phone Apple has ever made. ;)
 
The appeal of a folding iPhone is obvious. If you don't see it, there really is nothing I can say to you mate.
You could say what makes it obvious to you. Just saying "it's obvious" over and over just looks like you can't actually think of anything but I'm happy to be proved wrong.
 
You could say what makes it obvious to you. Just saying "it's obvious" over and over just looks like you can't actually think of anything but I'm happy to be proved wrong.
Do you really think I’d use such a word when I had no examples in mind? That makes zero sense.

An iPhone that folds out to an 8” display that fits in your pocket. Do I really need to list the potential uses for such a device???
 
Personally, I could care less about iPhone's market share, as long as a declining market share doesn't eat into developers' willingness to create/update apps for iPhones.
 
Apple has simply made the most basic mistake of pricing yourself out of the market it’s a classic mistake that companies avoid well not Apple, never charge too much or you end up pricing yourself out of the market and once that happens there’s no real way of coming back.

Apple smartphone business is basically over.
Why does it matter how many phones Apple sells when the revenue generated remains high? And as has been pointed out here many times, Apple’s base of iOS users is HUGE. The number of iPhones sold second hand can’t be tracked and those people will use Apple’s services etc. they are shifting their approach smartly. Yes their phones are expensive, but where’s the outrage about the Pixel, Note, and $1,000-$1700 Galaxy S10/Plus?
 
There are a hundred million active Macs and how many billion active iOS devices are there now? That is a tremendous user base for them to draw upon to sell those services.

The smartphone market in general is saturated in the "developed world". Most everyone is seeing contraction. Hence the shift to servicing (literally and figuratively) your existing customer base to generate income.

And of all the major smartphone manufacturers, Apple is the most well-placed to do so.





I won't argue that. In it's current form, Capitalism is all about "returning shareholder value" which means extracting as much cash as you can from customers.

But let us be honest - if the iPhone Xs had been released at $500 instead of $1000, would 100% of iPhone X customers have upgraded to the new model? Would 90%? 75%? 50%?

I am sure more would have then did, but I don't think it would have been a significant portion of the customer user-base because the biggest upgrade was the camera and the iPhone X's camera was already pretty decent.

Where their prices are really hurting Apple is India. Apple may have believed they could do in India what they did in China - sell expensive phones to the upper income tiers based on aspiration and/or vanity. And that has not worked as Apple just can't make a dent in the market, even with lower prices (that are still at the upper-end of the spectrum).

I think there is a large pent up demand for iPhone upgrades, but the costs are too high. I truly believe there would be considerably more sales if they brought prices back down to reasonable levels. Sure there is saturation of the market but that market still likes to upgrade their devices - perhaps not as regularly as before but there's still a strong desire for it.

I and those around me only provide anecdotal evidence but I really think it's pretty widespread. I'm a married middle class professional with no kids as of yet. We're Apple's core demographic yet we're holding onto our phones and MacBooks far longer than before. Not because we don't want to or can't afford to upgrade, but because the prices being asked have become outrageous.

I paid I think $600/$650 for my iPhone 6S and my wife paid less for her SE. To get the latest and greatest we now need to pay $1000 - that is an absolute huge jump and is price gouging. The XR which admittedly is a better device isn't all that different from my 6S yet costs around 1/3 more. We are not OK with that sort of pricing.
So instead we just bought a few more shares and kept our devices another couple of years.

I would happily buy an XS - but I will not pay more than $800 for one. The XR should be $600/$650.

Same for the MacBooks, they just go up and up in pricing under Cook. This is the same Apple of the 90's. Have a few hugely profitable years but the future raises a lot of questions.

You're right in that Apple has a huge user base, but my point still stands, that base can fairly quickly shrink if people stop going to Apple for new phones and Macs. Especially with their lack of focus on keeping Macs up to date with the latest silicon.

I'm not anti-Apple here. I do love their products and the XS is the best smartphone on the market. But their pricing and leadership is no longer OK with this customer. Also India was never a good market for Apple, it simply does not have a large and wealthy enough middle class to support large volumes of sales. India's GDP is less than the UK's with 1/20th the population. Plus they have some rather punitive and unfair import tariffs.
 
During the iPod, there was still Mac to fall back. Apple has been putting the all money in iPhone and slacking in other products. They need to be careful, they could be the future of blackberry.

Well fortunately Mac revenue is stronger now than it was in the iPod days.



I think there is a large pent up demand for iPhone upgrades, but the costs are too high. I truly believe there would be considerably more sales if they brought prices back down to reasonable levels.

The iPhone XR is a solid upgrade for anyone on an iPhone 6+ or 7+ and the price is the same as or even cheaper than those phones at launch. Yes, it's $100 more than the 6 or 7 at launch, but you get more phone (literally) for the price. And if you don't want a "Plus-sized" replacement, there is still the iPhone 8 at $599 (which is cheaper than what people paid for the 6 and 7 at launch).

So it is not like $1000 is the minimum you can pay for a current-model phone with current-generation specs and you can get a pretty darn nice phone from the previous generation/model for a bit over half that $1000.



I and those around me only provide anecdotal evidence but I really think it's pretty widespread. I'm a married middle class professional with no kids as of yet. We're Apple's core demographic yet we're holding onto our phones and MacBooks far longer than before. Not because we don't want to or can't afford to upgrade, but because the prices being asked have become outrageous.

I'm unmarried with shedloads of disposable income and I don't replace my iPhone, iPad Pro or iMac every year because I don't see the value proposition of replacing it even if they were half the price they are. And Apple themselves notes they know their customers are holding on to their devices longer because of the work they put into them making them hold their value to their customers longer. Hence why they are pushing into Services.
 
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"Ignorance is bliss".


Which is higher priced than than the far superior Huawei P30Pro where I live. The XR is hardly very affordable for most and very poor value to boot. It's basically only in America Apple is price competitive.
Keep telling that to yourself. If you want gimmicks go for droid.
 
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Dunno how Tim Apple is taking the news but Apple investors must be taking it very well because as of 13:00 on 1 May Apple shares are exploding on the market with Apple Inc. up 13.5 points or almost +6.75%.

“Must be” is the magic word. Only reason why the Apple stock went up is that Apple bought back stock worth 75 billion dollar.
 
With all the sentiments of doom and gloom being expressed in this message board keep one thing in mind:

Apple Inc.'s shares are up 13.51 points as of 13:00 on 1 May. This represents an increase of almost 7.00% in market value. Their current market value is just over $1 trillion. An awful lot of buyers must not share in the doom and gloom. Obviously.

The only buyer who isn’t sharing in the doom and gloom is Tim Cook who’s directed the company to buy back 75 billion dollars worth of stock to make it look like Apple stock is in higher demand.

Only an idiot would believe that Apple can survive on “services”. Who are they going to sell their software and online services to? Windows users? Android users? Apple devices are rapidly disappearing. 30% lower sales in just one year is a feat that only one major global company has managed in recent years: BlackBerry. Hint: they’re also selling “services” now.
 
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There are a hundred million active Macs and how many billion active iOS devices are there now? That is a tremendous user base for them to draw upon to sell those services.

The smartphone market in general is saturated in the "developed world". Most everyone is seeing contraction. Hence the shift to servicing (literally and figuratively) your existing customer base to generate income.

And of all the major smartphone manufacturers, Apple is the most well-placed to do so.





I won't argue that. In it's current form, Capitalism is all about "returning shareholder value" which means extracting as much cash as you can from customers.

But let us be honest - if the iPhone Xs had been released at $500 instead of $1000, would 100% of iPhone X customers have upgraded to the new model? Would 90%? 75%? 50%?

I am sure more would have then did, but I don't think it would have been a significant portion of the customer user-base because the biggest upgrade was the camera and the iPhone X's camera was already pretty decent.

Where their prices are really hurting Apple is India. Apple may have believed they could do in India what they did in China - sell expensive phones to the upper income tiers based on aspiration and/or vanity. And that has not worked as Apple just can't make a dent in the market, even with lower prices (that are still at the upper-end of the spectrum).

How many BILLION of active iOS devices? And people who bought new Macs when you could still type on their keyboards are not going to buy Apple “services” (what do they even mean by that? 3$ per month storage upgrades on iCloud???)
 
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Yes. That's precisely what I'm asking you to do.
Honestly it’s utterly ridiculous that you feel the need for anyone to have to do so. It’s quite obvious. But I’m happy to spell it out for you.

I’m a former iPad Mini user. 6 years until I got the iPad Pro. Instead of using a Plus/Max in conjunction with an iPad Mini, I could have used a foldable iPhone that was essentially both devices in one. That means a tablet experience in situations on the go when an iPad Mini was never going to be an option. This means bringing one device on a trip instead of two.

Specific scenarios are endless. A tablet experience when a smartphone was the only option before. You can use an unfolded tablet as your cars navigation system. It goes on and on.
 
a'ight but if u don't know my hood girls Altis u need to be ballin. No bank no bang u know what i mean?
I hope you’re being facetious. Who the hell wants a woman like that hanging around anyway.
[doublepost=1556740997][/doublepost]I do wonder if we see standard storage of 2019 iPhones rise to 128GB, with zero price increase. I think they should update the XR processor and camera, but keep design and storage options the same and drop the price to $699. It would sell even stronger.
 
How many BILLION of active iOS devices?

Okay - 1.4 billion.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/29/18202736/apple-devices-ios-earnings-q1-2019


And people who bought new Macs when you could still type on their keyboards are not going to buy Apple “services” (what do they even mean by that? 3$ per month storage upgrades on iCloud???)

I bought a Mac when you could "still type on their keyboards" and I have iCloud storage and I intend to subscribe to Apple TV+. I'm also considering doing Apple News+ since I subscribe to enough magazines already to cover the price and if I listened to music I would be an Apple Music subscriber.
 
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I think that Apple overdid it with the pricing of the iPhone. No phone is worth more than 1000$ and there should be a reduction of prices, or we will continue seeing declines in sales. On top of that, carriers have stopped subsidizing phones when you get a new contract (or they have reduced them), and consumers are shocked by the prices of smartphones without any subsidy. The whole market has declined and has gotten mature. It is normal to have this kind of saturation in the market.
 
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I'd like to see what the install base is. Perhaps that would be iOS ver Android... but it would give an idea of how much the switch is changing. Leaving an Ecosystem is not so easy.
 
Apple is 4th not 3rd.
Oppo, Vivo and OnePlus is owned by same company - BBK.
We don't have OnePlus numbers to see if BBK is actually 2nd or 3rd but according to the published numbers Apple is 4th...
 
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