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Apple Should be Embarrassed About Mac Pricing
- Thread starter WannaGoMac
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He probably thought the link was good enough...
At any rate, here's a typical Dell el-cheapo config:
Price: $709
Intel® Core 2 Duo Processor E4300 (2MB L2 Cache,1.8GHz,800FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
160GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability
256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
IEEE 1394 Adapter
19 inch E197FP Analog Flat Panel
But it's a Dell. You don't get OS X. If you can live without OS X, you could build the same system for ~$100 less, and have a system that is not a Dell (a "plus" IMHO)
But, this is a "desktop" system,using an Intel Socket T (desktop) cpu. Apple doesn't make a true "desktop" (they use Socket M "mobile" cpus), and so comparing this Dell (or homebuilt system) to a Mac isn't a fair comparison.
One more time...
These are Intel Socket T cpus.
Apple DOES NOT USE Socket T cpus.
WannaGoMac said:
Guess what - - - - WRONG.
Dimension 9200
Have to add this to get iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD-like capabilities:
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista™ Ultimate
Had to bump this up:
MEMORY 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
Had to bump this up:
HARD DRIVE 250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM)
Had to put this in to get a DL drive:
Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
Ooops - had to ADD SPEAKERS to even be able to listen to anything:
SOUND Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
I'm guessing you forgot PC's get viruses:
SECURITY McAfee SecurityCenter with anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall, 24-months ANTI-VIRUS & SECURITY Webroot Spy Sweeper - 5 Users
Grand total?
$1467
Plus you have to look at some clunky tower and ugly monitor.
I'll take the iMac for $32 more, thanks.
Next.
Newsflash:
Anyone complaining that Apple overcharges because they can configure a Dell for $x less is a cheap bastard.
Go buy your Dell and I'm sure you'll be happy as a pig in **** knowing you bled every last ounce of value out of your dollar.
Then perhaps you can go to a Lotus forum and complain about the Elise, which is largely unchanged from its 2005 US debut and costs even more. The horror! And only 190hp for 44,000? You could get a 400hp Corvette for just $1,000 more. Have they no shame?
Anyone complaining that Apple overcharges because they can configure a Dell for $x less is a cheap bastard.
Go buy your Dell and I'm sure you'll be happy as a pig in **** knowing you bled every last ounce of value out of your dollar.
Then perhaps you can go to a Lotus forum and complain about the Elise, which is largely unchanged from its 2005 US debut and costs even more. The horror! And only 190hp for 44,000? You could get a 400hp Corvette for just $1,000 more. Have they no shame?
I'd be surprised if Apple didn't bump the memory up on the next revision, at least for the more expensive model (like they did with the MacBook).
I don't suppose you remember when the cheap mini shipped with a 1.25GHz G4 processor, 256MB, no WiFi, no BT, a 40GB HD, and only 2 USB ports?
I will try to respond without the hostility and defensiveness as I understand you are SJPS. I am assuming you are 110% mac person and don't know the PC world very well. Let me try to help by addressing each of your points...
1) Vista Ultimate, Iphoto, Idvd, imovie etc. Sorry, not really applicable. Personally, I still prefer Picasa to Iphoto, idvd I tried to use it and was very disappointed in that I couldn't even re-master a DVD I owned! Otherwise, Windows Media Player classic etc
2) Memory -- It came with 1gb RAM. Why would you bump it and to what?
3) Hard drive, uh I DID bump it to 250gb so what are you talking about???
4) DVDR -- Now you are really losing me. The unit I configured and priced came with a DVDR. What ad are you even looking at from Dell???
5) Speakers -- Wow, you finally got one thing I missed. Congrats on the $10 miss on my part. I apologize.
6) Soundcard - comes with soundcard
I know you are a SJPS, but could you at least comment on the best reason -- the fact the CPU is NOT a mobile C2D. In your little rant you missed the most obvious and focused on things that were wrong.
Also, if you want to nitpick. Does the Mac come with 6 months free dialup internet? Perhaps that should be applied to your costing of the mac? lol
Here is the $849 machine I configured:
Processor:
Intel® Core2 Duo Processor E6400 (2MB L2 Cache,2.13GHz,1066 FSB) SE64B [222-3544] 1
Operating System:
Genuine Windows Vista Home Basic VHB3E [313-4911][420-5769][420-5924][420-6436][420-6481][420-6533][420-6577][463-2282] 11
Memory:
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs 1GB62 [311-5119] 3
Hard Drive:
250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache 250S [341-3257] 8
CD or DVD Drive:
Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability 16DVDRW [313-4422][420-6464] 16
Monitor:
20 inch E207WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel E207WFP [320-5119] 5
Video Cards:
256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache NV7300 [320-4944] 6
Sound:
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio IS [313-2758] 17
Miscellaneous:
9200 92DM64 [466-4615] 82
Labels:
Windows Vista Basic VBD [310-8625] 750
Floppy Drive and Media Reader:
No Floppy Drive Included NFD [341-3865] 10
Modem:
No Modem N [313-3607] 14
Speakers:
No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system) N [313-4514] 18
Keyboard:
Dell USB Keyboard EK [310-7963] 4
Mouse:
Dell® 2-button USB mouse SM [310-7965] 12
Office Productivity Software (Pre-Installed):
Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD DWRK [412-0912] 22
Security Software:
No security subscription (McAfee 30-day trial) VNS2 [420-6594] 25
Warranty & Service:
1 Year On-site Economy Plan B111DNO [412-0359][950-9797][960-2800][980-1740][984-9287][986-4227] 29
DIAL-UP INTERNET ACCESS:
6 Months of America Online Membership Included AOLSMB [412-0933][412-0934
Oh, here is the link to the Dell I priced, maybe it will work for ya...
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bddwygl&s=bsd
This was not to be a thread discussion on price comparison between Dell and Macs. I am not sure why the SJPS are just focusing on how the dell is not really cheaper.
I said in my original post about the Dell config that MAC WAS WORTH THE PREMIUM! My complaint was that Apple doesn't adjust their price 8 months (or 5 months) after the initial release to pass on the savings to the consumer. That was all!
Not sure why fanbois always jump to such defensiveness. I never once stated that the Mac wasn't worth the price premium, in fact i said IN BOLD it was!
Phew, please calm down. This was just to be a friendly discussion on why Apple never lowers Mac prices in the new Intel world, or update it's models more frequently than 2x / year (on average), and what the possible impact was on these business decisions.
I wasn't looking or trying to start another boring thread on PC vs Mac price comparison.
Yes, and then I posted later that I was WRONG (with bolding) and the amount wasn't correct so I corrected it AND said with bold letters HOW THE PREMIUM WAS WORTH IT! lol.
In interest of introducing a bit of levity, here is a comment I thought was quite funny on slashdot:
"Most secure Windows® ever"
Isn't that kind of like being the prettiest checkout clerk at Wal-Mart?
I personally don't care whether it is cheaper or not. I wouldn't buy one. Regardless, what is the point of arguing or whining about it? Apple does it, get over it. They maintain prices even with old technology.
One thing this does is keep resale values up, which I like.
Regardless, my point is that you and the few here are not going to make a dent in Apples sales, thus making them realize their errors. If it becomes cheaper or upgraded, fine. If not, fine too. But I am sure there are still people buying them right now.
I'd say part of the reason they don't lower the price is that it's not part of the "Apple Culture". Typically they introduce small bumps in specs that helps them keep their prices where they are. Right now, most everything seems to be lacking (except the MPs). I suspect because they've got their hands more or less full with the iPhone and 10.5. Once those 2 are available on the market, I'd expect to see more of the spec bumps.
Ok. Apple doesn't do it. Move along. I don't know why you want to argue this. You know as a consumer it is not worth the value. That is called being a smart shopper. Good job.
Why don't they adjust prices? I have no idea. Nor does anyone here. They do what they do and as if you were buying anything else it is your job to make sure what you are buying is a good value. End of story. /thread
just for the record, with regard to the imac, i just spec'd up comparable machines on both the dell and apple websites (for the 20" imac), and the mac was just £30 more. when your spending lots of money, £30 quid is nothing, especially when you consider the os and ilife that would cost more on the dell, potentially leveling things out.
one place where dell do 'win' however is their insurance policy thingy, which includes accidental damage and costs about the same as applecare!
one place where dell do 'win' however is their insurance policy thingy, which includes accidental damage and costs about the same as applecare!
You're bitching about price, and when it comes down to it, you don't even like or value the software it comes with. Fact of the matter is, when comparing prices, you have to upgrade to Vista Ultimate to get features that are standard on the Mac. Doesn't make a difference if you like them or not.
Not the standard Dimension 9200 I configured.
Not the standard Dimension 9200 I configured.
The iMac comes with a dual layer DVD drive standard, the Dell does not.
How humble of you.
???
Also, if you want to nitpick. Does the Mac come with 6 months free dialup internet? Perhaps that should be applied to your costing of the mac? lol
Who wants dial up? It's almost impossible to do ANYTHING on teh Internet today with dial up. That's like offering 10 free pounds of oatmeal with every computer - who wants it? (By the way, make sure you ad $20 for the dial up modem.)
And I hope you don't plan on using that free dial up without any virus software, which is the way you have your computer configured. That machine would be dead in ten minutes without the software I had to add on.
So you reconfigured another machine without many basic items necessary to put it on the same level with the mac... why am I not surprised?
You're trolling for responses at this point. I'm done.
Great, glad you're done, still wrong, and appreciate you leaving the thread. Good-bye.
Here is the link to the exact Dell I configured since the brain-trust above couldn't bother to use the link he was so brain-washed into being a SJPS:
This thread is almost as bad as the gaming section was before the mods decided to slash and burn...
In the words of Paulie Shore "Chill out budddddy"
In the words of Paulie Shore "Chill out budddddy"
The link he gave earlier went to the computers Dell had "on special". If you priced it out there, it is less expensive than if you priced out a 9200 elsewhere on their site.
What initial release are you talking about? Minis and iMacs have been around for YEARS. For most Apple products, the price remains the same, but when they get rev'ed, they offer more hardware for the same price-point. Again, remember when the cheap mini's only came with 256MB, 40GB hard drive, no BT+WiFi, and only 2 USB ports?WannaGoMac said:
It's important to remember the original mini, for ~$500, used a old(er) G4 PPC processor, e.g., it was not an Intel machine.
The "cost savings" issue of his argument is bogus. however. This is no "savings" that Apple could pass along to its customers. Why do I say that? Because (one more time) -- Dell uses (cheaper) Socket T cpus (which have come down in price). Apple, on the other hand, uses Socket M cpus (which haven't really come down in prices, other than a few dollars @)
If you want to compare Dell to Apple -- price laptops -- that use the Socket M processors.
I'm not defending anything.
I'm saying ante up or leave the table. Just don't sit there telling me it costs too much to open the pot.
If you don't want a mini or an iMac, that's your problem. If you don't have enough money, that's your problem. If you have the money but it's too dear to part with for a system that's a few months behind the bleeding edge, that's still your problem!
I'm waiting for Apple to update the Mac Pro. I've got enough cash squirrelled for an 8 core. You think I give a **** what any Dell costs? You think I care about the comparable value? Hell no. I want a Mac. And I ain't too goddamned cheap to put my wallet on the table for one. And I'm not selfish enough to think Apple's product line updates revolve around me.
I'm with you, I don't care about cost. I want only Macs, not some Windows box that will give me grief. My money is socked away for another Mac desktop, because that is what I want.
In my opinion apple should be charging more, you get a lot more with a mac ex. iLife and they last way longer, and of course they are way better looking.