amen, id feel more comfortable buying a particular system now then worry it will be upgraded to 2x the speed a month later
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Apple Should be Embarrassed About Mac Pricing
- Thread starter WannaGoMac
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amen, id feel more comfortable buying a particular system now then worry it will be upgraded to 2x the speed a month later
I frankly can't agree with you, and don't think you make sense.
Are you trying to say Apple doesn't care about what customer thinks? Sure if one person think Apple should make an iProduct, that apparently no body wants, Apple can ignore that person, but if many many many people believe Apple's pricing scheme is ridiculous, Apple definitely should think about it twice.
You also said that Apple doesn't have to update their hardware (to compete with competitors) just because people have no idea what's going on anyways. I think you need to re-evaluate you reality, it has obviously gone out of this world. People do actually compare specification before spending thousands of dollar, you know? Perhaps you don't (which I'm not even surprised), but others do.
Just because you don't see Dell as competitors for Apple, many people do compare Mac against PC before they decided if Mac are really worth the price tag. Sure it has a nice OS, but does that justify the price differences? Some think so, but others think not. And just because someone think not, does not make them troll.
you are most likely gonna get out-dated hardware too, are you comfortable with that?
Apple doesn't care what the enthusiast wants. They will never please them. If they put in a 8800GTX, it will cost too much or the processor isn't enough, or the bus speed is bottlenecking graphic performance.
These people, cannot be pleased. And they are not the people Apple is steadily selling Macs too. I know, I am one of them. I buy Macs but I know when something is a good value and when it isn't and I am extremely picking. See my other post where I said what I would buy no and what I wouldn't. Most people don't think that way. They need a computer. If they want an Apple, they buy an Apple. Dell, dell, etc etc.
My point is that the people complaining here are not the majority of people buying computers. Sure we can call Dell pieces of crap all day, do you really think that is stopping people from buying them? Didn't think so.
And please don't try and knock me down a notch assuming I don't compare hardware, I wouldnt even have this insight if I didn't so please. Anyhow, people can compare, but what are they comparing? Pentium Dual Core or Core 2 Duo? Hmm.. I can ask 10 people and I bet 7 out of the 10 would be clueless. People go by numbers and how much they can afford.
Hmm... 2.4 is faster than 2.0, but I can't afford that upgrade... That is how people compare. Most people have no idea what they are really buying. They buy the best numbers they can get at a price they can afford.
Moving along. Apple doesnt have to update, heck Dell doesn't have to update. WHy do they? Because AMD, Intel, Nvidia, ATI keep updating, so they follow. Most of the time due to pricing and availability. It is cheaper to keep up.
Is a Dell a competitor? Maybe. I don't know. Apples business model is different IMO. Do regular consumers compare, sure they do. Do they know what they are comparing? I would lean toward no most of the time. And I didn't call this guy a troll. I do think it is a pointless thread since no one can answer that question. Then, if you do try all of a sudden you are an Apple apologist.
The mini is crap. I agree. I even said that in the very first line of my first post in this thread. It is horribly out of date. Like I said I would guess that Apple is rethinking that part of their lineup or waiting for something. I don't know. Know one knows.
Anyhow, my point is that most people have no idea what they are looking at. They judge by price. This is more expensive, thus it must be better. And they also judge by numbers, this number is bigger. That is not a comparison, and my overall point is that people are still buying these computer regardless of what people here think. If the people waiting were really Apples main consumers they would be dead already.
EDIT: In addition, I also said in my earlier post that I will not argue about the things I feel you get when you buy I Mac. I realize everyone doesnt' think of those things the same way.
If Apple lowered the Mini $599 to $399/450 to reflect the lower CPU costs they would sell TONS...
Do you have data to show they aren't selling tons now? Or is that simply based on your opinion that they are overpriced and thus no one could possibly buy one?
Even though it is a PC, it is still a Mac.
It is the only one that'll run the Mac OS -- if you think it is too overpriced as a PC, buy a Dell and go Windows.
Your choice.
---
Even as a PC, people are still going to buy the Macs at Apple's prices -- because they lust after the design (for some odd reason.)
So as a Mac and PC, there is no reason for Apple to compete with Dell on price, when their marketshare continues to rise as fast as it does.
It is the only one that'll run the Mac OS -- if you think it is too overpriced as a PC, buy a Dell and go Windows.
Your choice.
---
Even as a PC, people are still going to buy the Macs at Apple's prices -- because they lust after the design (for some odd reason.)
So as a Mac and PC, there is no reason for Apple to compete with Dell on price, when their marketshare continues to rise as fast as it does.
Check walmart prices on computers sometime. The $399 models continually sell out very quickly...
Well, those are waiting for you, when they are in stock of course. Do you really think people buying $399 computers from Walmart are about to all of a sudden switch to a Mac because there was a price drop? I highly doubt it.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5493593
swingerofbirch
macrumors 68040
When you buy a PC, the OS is the same no matter which vendor you buy from. So the vendors compete on specs (also service, reliability, design).
You could say that Apple has a monopoly on Macs--no one else makes them. I would venture to guess that a good number of people buy Macs for the OS, not the specs. So would it be ideal for Mac OS to be on any PC? That's a catch 22 in my mind. I think part of why the Mac OS is great is because Apple has complete control over the hardware and software. I assume this requires them to write drivers, which may be why they don't like to change the components of their computers so often. Also when you buy a copy of Mac OS X it already has all the drivers for every component of every Mac that that copy of OS X will run on. If they changed components more often, it might complicate having such a simple install with no need to find drivers. I don't know any of this for sure--just speculating. Frankly having a C2D iMac, I couldn't imagine needing a faster computer. The one thing that does bother me though with Apple having a monopoly on Macs is hardware quality. Maybe it's just my bad luck, but ever since Apple's rennaisance of cool computers and regaining market share I have had logic board probs with a number of the Macs I have owned...
You could say that Apple has a monopoly on Macs--no one else makes them. I would venture to guess that a good number of people buy Macs for the OS, not the specs. So would it be ideal for Mac OS to be on any PC? That's a catch 22 in my mind. I think part of why the Mac OS is great is because Apple has complete control over the hardware and software. I assume this requires them to write drivers, which may be why they don't like to change the components of their computers so often. Also when you buy a copy of Mac OS X it already has all the drivers for every component of every Mac that that copy of OS X will run on. If they changed components more often, it might complicate having such a simple install with no need to find drivers. I don't know any of this for sure--just speculating. Frankly having a C2D iMac, I couldn't imagine needing a faster computer. The one thing that does bother me though with Apple having a monopoly on Macs is hardware quality. Maybe it's just my bad luck, but ever since Apple's rennaisance of cool computers and regaining market share I have had logic board probs with a number of the Macs I have owned...
Those systems don't directly compare to a Mini as they include the peripherals such as keyboard and mouse. Not sure why you are taking such a stand against lower pricing for the Mini. Maybe you're a SJPS?
Anyway, the fun thing about opinions is that you have yours, I have mine.
Yes, which explains why there is a premium price on a Mac and I agree with that premium. What I find so surprising is that with more than half-a-year between updating specs Apple never reduces prices to reflect cheaper components.
Someone had an interesting comment earlier in this discussion that Apple relies on Jobs announcements where he says the price is "cheaper than Dell" to stick in the mind of consumers. Might be right.
However, as someone also said in this thread, it's a new world. People can instantly compare produce specs to check how much a premium it is for a Mac. It's a brave new world
Just to respond to the price comment I made about price premium as I was INCORRECT. Though, my point wasn't the premium, just that the premium didn't stay consistent over the months.
Dell 9200 $849
2.13 C2D
1gb
250gb
20" LCD
20" Imac $1499
So the price premium is only $650, not the $900-1000 I posted. My mistake. Though I also didn't use any Dell coupons in my configuration as they come out on Tuesdays I think.
I likely didn't compare Oranges to Oranges when I did the comparison 2 weeks ago, and didn't match up all the specs which is why I got to about $900 premium.
I am not saying the premium isn't worth it!
That's not Apple customer, those buyers only buy cheap. Apple sells a complete system, a system that works. Remember their advertising slogan from the 80's, "A computer for the rest of Us". It still rings true today, you buy a Mac because it works and is easy to use. You're probably too young to appreciate what the Mac is and will always be - a computer that just works.
That said, I agree that the Mini is out-of-date, but that doesn't mean it isn't a viable computer. I would buy one, just to have a computer in my bedroom or kitchen or wherever I please, the size appeals to me. I don't want a big ugly desktop unit in those living spaces.
I currently have a range of Macs, all still work flawlessly. I keep paying Apples prices because in the end, I know that the money was well spent. Quality in my view means more than price.
Why don't you go and buy a Win box and be done with it. Have fun with the all the required software to protect the box, the required maintenance and the yearly re-formatting.
To be fair to Apple, the imac and the mac mini are not 'standard' machines like Dells where parts can be mixed and matched. In a Mac Mini, Apple can't just drop a new graphics chip or CPU in if it doesn't have exactly the same heat/electrical specs. You need to think about thermals, and if you need to redesign or re-engineer something. This is probably why they don't seem to go through an upgrade cycle as quickly as normal PCs.
On the other hand, it is outrageous that the MacPro has taken this long to get clovertowns given that its not as unique a piece of kit like the imac and mac mini are. At least the pricing on MacPros is competitive with normal Xeon workstations.
On the other hand, it is outrageous that the MacPro has taken this long to get clovertowns given that its not as unique a piece of kit like the imac and mac mini are. At least the pricing on MacPros is competitive with normal Xeon workstations.
Dells are cheaper because Dell has to price aggressively to match or beat low prices from other Windows PC manufacturers such as Gateway, HP/Compaq, Sony (*snicker*), eMachines, and Lenovo/IBM.
Apple prices according to...what they want because they have no competition which can build and sell computers that run OS X.
There's your answer.
I have a 3 year old P4 3.0c that I built to be a long-lasting machine. (Spent around $900 back in '04) Still runs great. I refuse to install Vista because Vista is trash. However I'm in the market for a new computer and I will end up with a Mac Pro probably late summer or early fall when Leopard is released. And I will gladly swallow the $4 g pill for a refurb Quad 3.0 with a 23" ACD and AppleCare knowing that that computer will run OS X like a champ and anything else I throw at it for at least 10 years because that's how Apple computers are.
IMO - an Apple is an investment. You can count on the computer to work for a long time. The job where I currently work & have worked at for 2 years just bought a low end G5 (single 1.8) 5 months before I started, and what did they have before that? A beige & white G3 running OS 9 with 64 megs of ram and they were still able to churn out Illustrator, Quark, and Photoshop work. Sure, it was slow, but that's unprecedented in the PC world.
There's no way in hell a corporation could get away with their entire company using Pentium systems running Windows 3.1 (for comparison). And by that token - I see Windows PCs as disposable. Use them for a few years, buy something new or upgrade and spend more.
...just my two cents.
Apple prices according to...what they want because they have no competition which can build and sell computers that run OS X.
There's your answer.
I have a 3 year old P4 3.0c that I built to be a long-lasting machine. (Spent around $900 back in '04) Still runs great. I refuse to install Vista because Vista is trash. However I'm in the market for a new computer and I will end up with a Mac Pro probably late summer or early fall when Leopard is released. And I will gladly swallow the $4 g pill for a refurb Quad 3.0 with a 23" ACD and AppleCare knowing that that computer will run OS X like a champ and anything else I throw at it for at least 10 years because that's how Apple computers are.
IMO - an Apple is an investment. You can count on the computer to work for a long time. The job where I currently work & have worked at for 2 years just bought a low end G5 (single 1.8) 5 months before I started, and what did they have before that? A beige & white G3 running OS 9 with 64 megs of ram and they were still able to churn out Illustrator, Quark, and Photoshop work. Sure, it was slow, but that's unprecedented in the PC world.
There's no way in hell a corporation could get away with their entire company using Pentium systems running Windows 3.1 (for comparison). And by that token - I see Windows PCs as disposable. Use them for a few years, buy something new or upgrade and spend more.
...just my two cents.
My guess is that it cost a bit more than he remembers as well.Errhhh.... How will that make it any more than 4 or 5 years old?
Errhhh.... How will that make it any more than 4 or 5 years old?
Yeesh...too early in the morning when I posted that I guess.
Mixed up my numbers and addition ability.
Turns out I built it in '04. (Seems longer/older.)
A little more. Roughly $900.
Pulled up my old orders from NewEgg where I bought everything except the case (Chieftec)...which was bought from Tiger Direct for around $80. + NewEgg was $818 and change (just checked).
Anyhow - after using the G5 at work for these 2 years, I can't wait to use OSX at home. XP works fine for me but...I yearn for OSX when I'm not at work.
Of course you pay more for the better design. Why do you think you don't have to? You always have to pay more for prettier things. You pay more for a Diesel Shirt than for a Walmart Shirt, you pay more for a pretty 20 year old stripper than for a fat 60 year old stripper.
If the price difference justifies the "pretty" rating is up to you. End of story.
If the price difference justifies the "pretty" rating is up to you. End of story.
Can you post the full config?
The build I did came to $1049, which includes $90 off and a free monitor upgrade (usually $150). I wasn't able to add BlueTooth or a webcam, so those prices aren't reflected below.
Code:
Dimension 9200 Qty 1
Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6400 (2MB L2 Cache,2.13GHz,1066 FSB), Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Basic Unit Price $1,099.00
Right now upgrade to the E207WFP for the same price as the E197FP
Expires Thursday, April 26, 2007 View Details
Save $90 on select Dimension 9200 Desktops through Dell Small Business.
Special offer
Catalog Number: 4 BDCWYFZ
Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6400 (2MB L2 Cache,2.13GHz,1066 FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Basic
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
Dell USB Keyboard
Great Upgrade! 20 Inch E207WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
No Floppy Drive Included
Dell® 2-button USB mouse
No Modem
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
Free Upgrade: Single Drive 16X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) w/ double layer
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
No security subscription (McAfee 30-day trial)
No Digital Music Software Requested
Digital Photography: Corel Snapfire Basic - Organize and Edit your photos
Warranty & Service 1 Year On-site Economy Plan
DIAL-UP INTERNET ACCESS No ISP requested
Optional Ports IEEE 1394 Adapter
Labels Windows Vista™ Basic
ACCESSORIES
Netgear WG111 54 Mbps Wireless USB 2.0 Adapter Qty 1
Dell Part# A0749471 Unit Price $40.00
Manufacturer Part# WG111-1DLUSS
Dell Part# A0749471
TOTAL:$1,049.00And I'm coming up with $1,218, and that is with only Vista Home Premium (not Business or Ultimate which would be the closer match to OS X), and certainly no software equivalent to iLife '06 is included here either. Bluetooth was not an available option so it's also not included.
You can get a brand new 20" iMac right now at Amazon for $1,424.99, so it looks like a $200 "premium" to me, not $650....
Code:
Dimension E520:
Intel ® Core™2 Duo Processor E6400 (2.13GHz, 1066 FSB) SSE64H [222-5015] 1
Operating System:
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium VHP3E [313-4911][420-5769][420-5924][420-6436][420-6481][420-6540][463-2282] 11
Monitor:
20 inch E207WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel E207WFP [320-5092] 5
Memory:
1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs 1GB62 [311-6461] 3
Hard Drives:
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ 250S [341-4211] 8
CD or DVD Drive:
16x DVD+/-RW Drive 16DVDRW [313-4579][420-6464] 16
Video Cards:
256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache NV7300 [320-5088] 6
Sound Cards:
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio IS [313-2758] 17
Mouse:
Mouse included in Wireless, Laser or Bluetooth Package N [310-1966] 12
Adobe Software:
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0 AAREAD [412-0914] 15
Network Interface:
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet IN [430-0441] 13
Miscellaneous:
Award Winning Service and Support E52005 [465-7682] 82
Labels:
Windows Vista™ Premium VPD [310-8626] 750
Speakers:
Dell A225 Speakers A225 [313-4482] 18
Keyboard:
Dell USB Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse EKOM [310-7966][310-8164] 4
Digital Still Cameras and Camcorders:
Logitech QuickCam Fusion Web Camera 516921 [A0516921] 77
Wireless Broadband Routers:
Netgear WG111 54 Mbps Wireless USB 2.0 Adapter 749471 [A0749471] 231
Floppy Drive and Media Reader:
No Floppy Drive Included NFD [341-4028] 10
Modem:
No Modem N [313-3137] 14
Optional Ports:
IEEE 1394 Adapter 1394 [320-4596] 85
Bundle:
Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD DWRK [412-0912] 22
Security Software:
No security subscription (McAfee 30-day trial) VNS2 [420-6594] 25
Dell Digital Entertainment:
Trial pack- Basic and trial products from Corel and Yahoo SEP [412-0943] 399
Warranty and Service:
1Yr Ltd Warranty and At-Home Service S111OS [950-3337][950-9797][960-2800][980-3060][985-1148] 29
Internet Access Service:
6 Months of America Online Membership Included AOLDHS [412-0933][412-0934][412-0935] 37
Total: $1,218You can get a brand new 20" iMac right now at Amazon for $1,424.99, so it looks like a $200 "premium" to me, not $650....
What about you? What data do you have?
Bravo, a honest opinion.
Or perhaps they are just smart enough to know they are being fleeced. Please explain to me why the price on a computer, any computer, should stay the same for 8 months.
It was already outdated when it first came out, now with Core 2 Duos being so common it is ridiculously outdated.
Can you point me to any other computer with the same form factor, dual core processors, and at a lower price?
The HP Pavilion Slimline s3000y series now has a desktop processor shoved into it now.
The Mac mini "Apple" premium isn't terrible compared to most other machines $600-800 range. I just wish Apple started including 1 GB of RAM as standard and a Core 2 processor on it.
~desu
How convenient, you are neglecting the fact that Vista has way more features than Tiger can ever dream of (read: Blu-ray/HD-DVD/HDMI support). Oh, and the 20" monitor is comparable to the "monitor" that comes with a Mac Mini.
You are getting more with the Dell, a lot more, I don't see why paying a little more is such a nasty thing.