Good news!! Bring on Apple TV 3 with full 1080p output!!!![]()
Best quote i've heard this morning "CHINA MAKES more phones in a day than people make babies" <- this is where our world has come
It's so sad to see the same old, tired, "720p is better than 1080p" arguments are still persisting.
Until 1080p content is readily and commonly available for streaming the AppleTV only supporting 720p is a moot issue.
I think there is no question about love of these devices. Many of us "1080p or bust" people probably have one. I certainly do and I love mine too. I just would like it to fully blend in with everything else I have. I've had better-than-720p HDTVs since about 2001 or so. I've shot all our precious home movies at better-than-720p since 2004 or 2005. I've got hundreds of them (edited & rendered via iMovie 2006 and newer) and it's so sad that, to view them at the fullest, I've still got to hook the camcorder or some form of storage directly to the HDTV rather than just push them there via this little box. Etc.I got an AppleTV for Christmas and love the thing.
Until 1080p content is readily and commonly available for streaming the AppleTV only supporting 720p is a moot issue. I got an AppleTV for Christmas and love the thing.
I'm the owner of twotv 2s here (three counting the one that was stolen). They've forever changed the way we enjoy our movies. I'd get another one for my daughter's room, but I fear we would never see her again.
Still, a third one may come in handy in our basement area someday.
Most of our movies are encoded for the iPod touch with only 480 pixel width, with the rare exception of visually grand movies like Avatar, Star Trek: First Contact and WALL-E which I've done at higher resolution. Even so, my family doesn't seem to mind too much, and we can squeeze lots of movies onto my daughter's older iPod touch for road trips without re-encoding.
The only time we use a DVD player now is when one of us is too impatient to wait for the movie to appear on Netflix and makes a Redbox run. My daughter watches movies several times-- her Cars 2 playcount is already in double digits, for example-- and as all of us with kids know, kids tend to be rather rough with physical discs. HandBrake +tv 2 = not having to replace that expensive Pixar disc again.
As I've been an iTunes fan since the intro of iTunes for Windows, all my media is iTunes compatible, so I've never felt the need for jailbreak or XBMC. My Airport Extreme works like a charm at nudging my iMac awake long enough to serve up a file and putting it back to sleep when it's done.
Our family'stv wishlist? OTA network integration (yeah, hang on to that dream, pal) and Vevo (we like music videos; the good YouTube ones are controlled by Vevo and marked web-only).
It's so sad to see the same old, tired, "720p is better than 1080p" arguments are still persisting.
Maybe it would be, if that argument was actual being made...I think the more tired argument, which is actually being made, is that anything less than 1080p is complete crap...1080p is better, but 720p is still pretty dang good...and under most normal viewing situations, the difference isn't even that noticeable, if at all...
where do you keep the movies? the whole idea of buying hard drives or having to turn on the MBP just to watch a movie on TV is what's keeping me still buying blu ray/dvd's. and the fact i can easily take the disks and watch on any player unlike these super high tech digital files that are locked to my itunes account and special devices
I bought an LG BD player that allows me to play high quality BD disks and still stream Netflix. Until Apple can offer downloads that have the same picture and audio quality as BD I will pass.
please, the interface on these BD Netflix players sucks -- on my Samsung i cant even browse or add to the queue. and i sure cant beam video content or mirror the display via AirPlay.
as for quality -- while nothing compares to physical BDs, the diff between streaming 720 and 1080 is largely insignificant, due to compression and distance to screen.
Today's hard drives can easily house hundreds of movies (I use the ATV2 720p preset in Handbrake, which results in file sizes from 2 to 5GB). I see your point about having to turn on the computer. It's a non-issue for me because I have a mac mini server running 24/7 anyway, but I realize that I represent a minority. However, this setup is infinitely more convenient than having to deal with physical media. I wouldn't even know where to store them. On a shelf in the living room? Maybe when you're 18! If I want to see a movie outside the home I use Air Video on the iPad, and on the (very rare) occasion I need to see it on a different player, I burn it to DVD.
Since you replied to my post, please show me where I posted anything like "anything less than 1080p is complete crap". You'll find nothing.
While these are "eye of the beholder", subjective statements: 720p is generally better than SD (DVD) and 1080p is generally better than 720p. For now- and maybe for the next decade or so- 1080p is likely to be the MAX standard for the masses. Those of us wanting this little box to fully cover that standard are simply wanting the last link in our chain to step up with that capability.
720p or less is fine for anyone happy with it. However, just because YOU may be happy with it doesn't mean that I should be happy with it too. Or more simply, arguments that seem to justify forcing the limitation of 720p upon me means I can't get what I want. Arguments that seem to justify forcing the max (mass) standard upon you means you can still get every bit of quality of 720p files that you like now. See the difference?
And, if there really are many like me, Apple rolling out a 1080pTV means that Apple can make a lot more money when all of us "1080p or bust" people buy it. Selling lots of new households a 1080p-capable
TV (instead of a Roku or BD player) adds that much more enticement to content owners to sell/rent their stuff through
TV. That means both the 720pers and the 1080pers could find even more stuff they want to watch through Apple's solution instead of resorting to non-Apple solutions.
Again, those happy with 720p lose NOTHING if Apple rolls out better hardware... their 720p files will play EXACTLY THE SAME on 1080p-capable hardware. It just doesn't work the other way.
as for quality -- while nothing compares to physical BDs, the diff between streaming 720 and 1080 is largely insignificant, due to compression and distance to screen.
You do realize that you're suggesting a picture made from less than 1 million pixels is insignificantly different from one made from more than 2 million pixels?
Do you feel the same about- say- "retina displays"? For example, is Apple wrong for jacking up the resolution on the iPhone's very tiny display due to similar insignificance?
Do you feel the same about- say- Apple displays/iMac displays? Is Apple wrong for delivering them at higher than 1080p because maybe a 1024x768 or similar would be insignificantly different?
Digital cameras? HD Camcorders?
Or does this argument stance only apply to THIS one thing?
And if Apple does roll out a 1080pTV, you both won't be interested and will rail against Apple for that (apparent) overkill?
The reality is simple: in our household we shoot a lot of 1080p video as home movies (family, kids, kids playing sports, vacations, etc). Downconverting the 1080p video to 720p so that it can play on theTV is noticeably different (not insignificant) by EVERYONE in our household almost regardless of how near or far we are from the TV. The choice is the convenient version (via
TV) or the best version (via hooking the camcorder of the very same video directly the TV or bringing over the iMovie-rendered 1080p version on a USB stick or hard drive to attach directly the TV).
If you find it insignificant to your own eyes and setup, that's just fine. But your eyes and setup is not everyone's eyes & setup. Some of us would love to fill this last gap in the 1080 source (which now includes Apple's own iPhone 4s), iMovie 1080 edit & render, iTunes 1080p storage & playback,TV, 1080HDTV. It all "just works" and is basically endorsed by Apple throughout the chain except for the ONE part where it must be down-converted.
Kill this product more like, it's half-baked at best. 720p? What a joke. It's never sold particularly well, and if Apple do end up making a TV they'd do best to start with a clean slate.
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Fixed that.
Once again, you twist opinions of 720p being good enough into anything more is "wrong" or something to "railed against"...please take the chip off your 1080p or bust shoulder...
maybe not you MWULF - but there do seem to be an awful lot of people who present an argument that I interpret as they don't want Apple to upgrade past 720p for future ATV development.
They say - I can't see a difference.
The say - there's no content.
My argument - shared by maybe yourself too - is that producing a device in 2012 that supports 1080p is more than reasonable for Apple to do.
I can absolutely see a difference.
I have suitable content for a 1080P ATV.
We all know that Apple staff are pouring over our discussions here on MacRumors, so I'm just serving my own interests to make sure an extra 30 cents in invested in each unit to meeting the 1080P threshold.![]()
Once again, you twist opinions of 720p being good enough into anything more is "wrong" or something to "railed against"...please take the chip off your 1080p or bust shoulder...
To you 1080 comment, it's because TV companies know people don't know any better and think "oh, that's better. I'll buy this set for $300 more." 1080P and 720P cannot be discerned by the human eye 51" and under... it's a fact... look it up. Now, some 1080P sets have better refresh rates that will give a better picture and and other things that reduce shadowing and blur. However, that's not because of the pixels on the screen! So no... 1080P really doesn't mean crap. Even at full 1080P the human eye cannot take all that visual information in.
mwulfz67, in the prior post you asked for examples and they are abundant in this very thread. See the post to which I made that reply or maybe post 31 (key paragraph copied in below) where the reference to "crap" you cited is actually used against the idea of 1080p, not, that "720p is crap".
My replies are to those who are arguing that 720p is good enough or that no one can see 1080p and similar. You seem to be defending such arguments by implying I have some chip on my shoulder. I'm NOT putting down 720p. It is better than SD or lower quality.
But I'm also not taking such comments as fact such as: "1080P and 720P cannot be discerned by the human eye 51" and under... it's a fact... look it up.". In fact, we have an HDTV under 51" in our own home and it is easy for EVERYONE here to see the difference between the 1080p video played from the HD camcorder and the exact same video rendered at 720p forTV.
That's not putting down 720p. That's simply not putting up with suggestions, insinuations, etc that no one should want 1080p because some say they can't see the difference, they don't want it, etc. Frankly, I'm happy for them but that doesn't change what I would like for me.
Relative to past volumes, Apple sold a lot ofTVs this quarter. They'd sell a lot more by giving other pockets of buyers what they want (too). Personally, I'd buy 2-3 of them to replace my existing
TVs the day they roll out one with 1080p playback... even if that was the ONLY change. Whether I can see it or not, sit close or far from my TV, have fast or slow internet, review "the chart" or not, and- especially in my own case- whether there is any 1080p content added to iTunes or not, Apple can have my money that first day. Until then though, it waits and some of it flows to alternatives that have already long been there. I'd rather give the money to Apple and wish they wanted it bad enough to give a customer what he wants sooner than later.
where do you keep the movies? the whole idea of buying hard drives or having to turn on the MBP just to watch a movie on TV is what's keeping me still buying blu ray/dvd's. and the fact i can easily take the disks and watch on any player unlike these super high tech digital files that are locked to my itunes account and special devices