Apple Sold 1.4M Apple TVs in Most Recent Quarter vs. 2.8M Sold in All of Fiscal 2011

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I asked for example where people have stated that 720p is better than 1080p

Actually, in post 83, it was me asking you to provide an example where I said that 720p is crap. You didn't do that... because I made no such post. Instead of doing that, you try to flip it with...

Sure, as soon as you show me where anyone has argued that "720p is better than 1080p"...

...to which I pointed to some examples within this very thread, which seems to be conveniently ignored.

I also think is not unreasonable for a company to design something with most people in mind...

This is easy to agree upon. However, the implication you seem to be making is that "most people" are fine with 720p. In reality, "most people" buying an HDTV in the last few years have probably bought one that is 1080p; are there even 720p HDTVs still available (other than maybe kitchen-sized screen)? "Most people" that bought an HD Camcorder in the last year have probably bought one that is 1080p, not 720p (are there many 720p-capped camcorders still available?). "Most people" have bought a BD player instead of an TV in spite of the latter offering so many more, EXCELLENT benefits. Etc. In short, where there are choices about 1080p vs. 720p, it appears that "most people" spending money are actually choosing to buy 1080p hardware.

If the "most people" to which you refer are TV buyers, it's easy to argue that "most people" are choosing 720p when it's the ONLY option. By that standard "most people" appeared to NOT want an iPhone 4s until Apple made it available for them to buy it. "Most people" did not want a Tablet device until they could buy an iPad. "Most people" cannot demonstrate they want a 1080p TV until there is one that they can buy.

And again, note that Apple themselves have embraced 1080p in the iPhone 4s. So if they are building hardware for these "most people" and "most people" want 720p, why make that (apparent) mistake(?) with the iPhone?

But even all that said: a 1080p TV still plays that 720p to its fullest for those "most people". They lose nothing with upgraded video playback hardware. A 1080p TV does not obsolete 720p. It just gives us an added benefit, much like a retina display over a pre-retina display (3Gs's still sell well) or quad cores over dual cores over single cores. Etc. No loss when we get better hardware to play the same software.

Feel as you wish about this topic as I will too. In the end, a 1080p TV is a product that can appeal to even more people without requiring any video quality sacrifices for those that like things "as is". Sticking with the "as is" limits the market to those sufficiently happy with 720p or less. In one scenario Apple wins another, perhaps sizable segment of new customers and more revenues; in the other, they don't.

As an Apple shareholder, I'd like Apple to sell more of these. I'd like this to rise out of "hobby" status and run with the other "legs of the table". I'd like Apple to reach brand new customers who haven't bought something from Apple before. Look how well little devices like iPods, iPhones, iPads have brought in new buyers- some of which then get into Apple enough to pay up for Macs and other Apple hardware. As an Apple consumer, I'd like to buy 3 more TVs... that don't cap off their "HD" at 720p 30fps.

IMO, 720p may have been good enough (**FOR ME**) in 2007 when I bought my first TV. But it's 2012 now and I'd really like all of my 1080HD media (like hundreds of HD camcorder videos I've shot since about 2004-5) to be TV-conveniently viewable at the resolution in which they were shot. iMovie 06 could import, edit & render them at 1080. For years now, iTunes could import them and play them at 1080. I've had >720p HDTVs since about 2001. I'd sure like that ONE remaining link in the chain to come from Apple.

 

[dXTC]

i don't have a server

Not everyone does. This setup may not be suitable for everyone.

i don't want one sucking up electricity 24x7

Me neither; that's why my iMac is set to sleep after a period of non-use.

i don't have time to rent dvd's from netflix and rip them
i have no interest in digital hoarding terabytes of data

Because I'm using a low-quality HandBrake setting for older touch/nano compatibility, my video collection takes less than 250 GB; I'm hardly to the "terabyte" level yet.

i like BD quality better than rips
i have kids and sometimes take DVD's to daycare for them to watch or to my inlaws
i don't buy that many blu rays but between netflix, itunes, amazon and other services you can stream/rent the once in a year ones and buy the ones people watch over and over

Fair enough. Again, my model is not necessarily everyone's cup of tea.

 

[class77]

Seemingly lost in all this 720p vs 1080p debate, is the fact that the chip powering the ATV2 is almost 2 generations behind. The ATV2 is the only "new" Apple product still run with a A4 chip, with a new iPad3 rumored to be coming out on an A6 chip in the next few months. The A5 chip was introduced in March/April of last year.

If they plan to keep an ATV "box" versus a "TV", they've got to update the chip which in turn will open the door for all the apps and allow 1080p movies filmed on other Apple products to be shown in their full glory

 

[kaizenmx]

Overpriced content, no live TV, no disc playback and low bit rate video that is nowhere close to Blu Ray. It doesn't even do 1080p out. Who is buying these things?

 

[Sedulous]

so true HobeSoundDarryl.

720pers -
please also make sure you get slower RAM, a 900mhz cordless phone, kodak disc film, 802.11b network, instand coffee. etc, etc, etc... You'll also notice little difference between those options and faster/newer choices.

720pers - if the ATV3 does come out in 1080p (to support among other things - the fingernail sized camera on the current iphone) may just have to prepare yourselves to be abused by that extra resolution! Save yourselves by perhaps smearing some Vaseline on your TV screen.

No need to be an ass. 720p / 1080p is irrelevant. A 1080p video can be so compressed as to look like crap. I don't mind a reasonable 720p video (I have a 55" Samsung LED). Sure, 1080p with similar compression would be welcome too. I doubt anyone here thinks 1080p would be "worse". A "nice" thing about 720p video is a more manageable file size compared to an equivalent 1080p, generally compatible with more devices, and still sufficiently better than SD. Remember, many of us live under data caps and 1080p will eat that up much faster.

 

[AndyR]

I love my 1st Gen 160Gb AppleTV, and the only thing stopping me getting the current gen is the lack of storage, as I dont have my Mac on all the time for streaming!

We use it all the time, even though we buy US iTunes vouchers online as the NZ store is crap!

Use it more than our DVD/Bluray player, and if we had uncapped internet access I'd easily use it more.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

No need to be an ass. 720p / 1080p is irrelevant. A 1080p video can be so compressed as to look like crap. I don't mind a reasonable 720p video (I have a 55" Samsung LED). Sure, 1080p with similar compression would be welcome too. I doubt anyone here thinks 1080p would be "worse". A "nice" thing about 720p video is a more manageable file size compared to an equivalent 1080p, generally compatible with more devices, and still sufficiently better than SD. Remember, many of us live under data caps and 1080p will eat that up much faster.

Appreciate that, but it's flawed to argue poor compression for 1080p video vs. better compression for 720p. Why not the other around: "A 720p video can be so compressed as to look like crap. I don't mind a reasonable 1080p video..."?

And if we want to talk about manageable file sizes and internet bandwidth, the SD versions of just about everything sold/rented in the iTunes store are also available. That is all smaller files that use less bandwidth on the download. But no one seems to argue that 480p > 720p.

And again: a 1080p upgrade in hardware doesn't force anyone to download only 1080p video from iTunes nor store only 1080p files on hard drives. Just like those of us with 720p AppleTV's now can choose the SD version of the file instead of the 720p version, I would expect the same flexibility to persist should Apple roll out a 1080p device. Anyone who buys one of these chooses whatever fits their situation. The availability of a 1080p version simply lets another pool of buyers join our little party. There are no "pain" consequences for those that like things "as is".

 

[dXTC]

Appreciate that, but it's flawed to argue poor compression for 1080p video vs. better compression for 720p. Why not the other around: "A 720p video can be so compressed as to look like crap. I don't mind a reasonable 1080p video..."?

Case in point: I've seen purportedly 720p YouTube clips that look worse than my lower-than-480 files. Compression is more of a key factor than some may realize.

The availability of a 1080p version simply lets another pool of buyers join our little party.

Exactly. This is a more inclusive choice rather than exclusive.
"Can't we all just get along?!?..."

 

[tripjammer]

We all know Apple is going to update the Apple TV later this year and also bring out a real APPLE HDTV with the setup box built in.

Also they will probably bring in the Appstore to the AppleTV.

Think Apple A6 quad core chip inside...think 1080p video, and mirroring also in 1080p. Show me another setup box that will be able to do that? Google TV failed....

Get ready!

 

[ericrwalker]

This sounds awesome, but I am not in the market for a new TV set, so if they start an app store I hope it goes for the current ATV2 and I hope they continue to make ATV's for other brand TV's.

Maybe when I am in the market for a new TV set, then I will look at the complete ATV package.

Yes Google TV failed, but I still use that in my bedroom for netflix and my wife uses it for the sling app for the slingbox we have in Japan.

We all know Apple is going to update the Apple TV later this year and also bring out a real APPLE HDTV with the setup box built in.

Also they will probably bring in the Appstore to the AppleTV.

Think Apple A6 quad core chip inside...think 1080p video, and mirroring also in 1080p. Show me another setup box that will be able to do that? Google TV failed....

Get ready!

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Case in point: I've seen purportedly 720p YouTube clips that look worse than my lower-than-480 files. Compression is more of a key factor than some may realize.

Certainly. But just about every time that's thrown out (here), it seems to always be biased. In other words, 720p with mild compression vs. 1080p that is overly compressed. Of course that's true. I shoot a lot of 1080p myself. I can take the same 1080p source and render it as 1080p with way too much compression and- say- 480p (DVD) at a highly optimized compression level and that 480p will look a lot better than the 1080p version. Of course, if I highly optimize the compression of the 1080p and way over-compress the 480p version, the 1080p version will look way better than the 480p.

Just because Apple might go 1080p doesn't automatically mean that those video files will have to be overly compressed. In fact, I would assume the opposite: when Apple rolls out 1080p rentals, they'll want to do the usual "let's wow'em" show. They'll want to compete- if not win- in some head-to-head evaluations against the various 1080p rental/streaming competitors (like say- Vudu) now. They may even want some press that gets "friends" to claim they can't see the difference between iTunes 1080p rentals and Blu Ray. I can say for nearly certain they wouldn't want to roll out overly compressed 1080p that obviously falls well short of 1080p from direct competitors. They don't want any "1080p-gate" or "TV3-gate": "You're watching it wrong"

It wasn't that long ago that the only video available in the iTunes store was SD quality. Then, 720p was added. Apple didn't overly compress 720p when 480p was Apple's (then) video standard. I wouldn't expect them to do that with 1080p either when it is available via iTunes.

If you want something better than just my opinion, look at the iPhone 4s video quality. That is Apple's crack at balancing 1080p video quality & file size compression. Is iPhone 4s video overly compressed? I haven't seen many complaints (but I have seen a lot of gushing about how great it is). iPhone 4s video quality may well be a good proxy for what we might expect should the Studios roll out 1080p videos through iTunes.

We all know Apple is going to update the Apple TV later this year and also bring out a real APPLE HDTV with the setup box built in. Also they will probably bring in the Appstore to the AppleTV. Think Apple A6 quad core chip inside...think 1080p video, and mirroring also in 1080p

I hope you are right. I'm ready to buy at least 3 of those today. If they can get it out this year, I bet it would roar during the holiday season: much better than 1.4 million in a quarter with THAT update.

 

[Sedulous]

Certainly. But just about every time that's thrown out (here), it seems to always be biased. In other words, 720p with mild compression vs. 1080p that is overly compressed. Of course that's true. I shoot a lot of 1080p myself. I can take the same 1080p source and render it as 1080p with way too much compression and- say- 480p (DVD) at a highly optimized compression level and that 480p will look a lot better than the 1080p version. Of course, if I highly optimize the compression of the 1080p and way over-compress the 480p version, the 1080p version will look way better than the 480p.

Just because Apple might go 1080p doesn't automatically mean that those video files will have to be overly compressed. In fact, I would assume the opposite: when Apple rolls out 1080p rentals, they'll want to do the usual "let's wow'em" show. They'll want to compete- if not win- in some head-to-head evaluations against the various 1080p rental/streaming competitors (like say- Vudu) now. They may even want some press that gets "friends" to claim they can't see the difference between iTunes 1080p rentals and Blu Ray. I can say for nearly certain they wouldn't want to roll out overly compressed 1080p that obviously falls well short of 1080p from direct competitors. They don't want any "1080p-gate" or "TV3-gate": "You're watching it wrong"

It wasn't that long ago that the only video available in the iTunes store was SD quality. Then, 720p was added. Apple didn't overly compress 720p when 480p was Apple's (then) video standard. I wouldn't expect them to do that with 1080p either when it is available via iTunes.

If you want something better than just my opinion, look at the iPhone 4s video quality. That is Apple's crack at balancing 1080p video quality & file size compression. Is iPhone 4s video overly compressed? I haven't seen many complaints (but I have seen a lot of gushing about how great it is). iPhone 4s video quality may well be a good proxy for what we might expect should the Studios roll out 1080p videos through iTunes.



I hope you are right. I'm ready to buy at least 3 of those today. If they can get it out this year, I bet it would roar during the holiday season: much better than 1.4 million in a quarter with THAT update.

I think you mistook what I was saying. Simply stating that 1080p is da bomb and anything less is insufficient falls short of a full argument. That is why I stated that just because something is 1080p does not always mean better quality and compression must be considered as part of the equation. As you rightly have stated (and I also tried to acknowledge), all compression settings being equal, 1080p is better. But I also wanted to note was that 1080p is great but 720p is sufficient if you look at the cost in terms of data. I regularly come close to hitting my data cap BEFORE 1080p... I am sure once 1080p is implemented in iTunes/ATV, I will be seeing the other side of that cap... as will many others. Rest assured, I am in no way saying you are wrong.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

But I also wanted to note was that 1080p is great but 720p is sufficient if you look at the cost in terms of data. I regularly come close to hitting my data cap BEFORE 1080p... I am sure once 1080p is implemented in iTunes/ATV, I will be seeing the other side of that cap... as will many others.

But this implies a perception that once 1080p is available, it will be the ONLY video file option someone in your kind of situation could download. For individuals with unique obstacles- like data cap pressures, slower Internet, limited hard drive storage, etc- why don't they just stick with 720p or SD files once the OPTION for 1080p is available? No one should be forced to only download big 1080p files unless that's what they want (and what works for their own situation).

Right now we all have choices of the 720p or SD versions of video. If my caps were very tight, or I had slow Internet, or limited hard drive space, etc, I might opt for the SD version instead of the bigger 720p. 720p isn't forced on us now just because it's available. 1080p options shouldn't be forced on us either when it is available.

 

[theluggage]

Overpriced content, no live TV, no disc playback and low bit rate video that is nowhere close to Blu Ray. It doesn't even do 1080p out. Who is buying these things?

People with iPads, iPhones or iTouches. Wireless streaming from iDevices is the killer app.

If you already have an iPad then Airplay makes it worth considering - or, if you stream from iTunes on your mac, the Apple Remote app provides a nice interface for browsing your library while the results play on your big screen + speakers.

If I want HD, I've got a blu-ray player, and DVD/blu-ray still seems the cheapest (legal) way to get movies and TV series if you don't mind waiting for it to be delivered. My TV does both over-the-air Freeview HD and offers a range of IPTV movie services. What it WON"T do is stream from my iPad or other computers (despite ostensibly supporting DNLA, which seems to stand for Does Not Load Anything).

I'd agree that the iTunes video content is horribly overpriced (especially the HD stuff) and it usually costs more than buying the disc from Amazon (sheesh, I wonder why people pirate stuff?) I might rent one of the cheaper movies occasionally if I want to watch something now, but that's about it.

 

[Sedulous]

But this implies a perception that once 1080p is available, it will be the ONLY video file option someone in your kind of situation could download. For individuals with unique obstacles- like data cap pressures, slower Internet, limited hard drive storage, etc- why don't they just stick with 720p or SD files once the OPTION for 1080p is available? No one should be forced to only download big 1080p files unless that's what they want (and what works for their own situation).

Right now we all have choices of the 720p or SD versions of video. If my caps were very tight, or I had slow Internet, or limited hard drive space, etc, I might opt for the SD version instead of the bigger 720p. 720p isn't forced on us now just because it's available. 1080p options shouldn't be forced on us either when it is available.

Who said anything about not wanting the option of 1080p? I'd welcome it.

 

[mwulf67]

Actually, in post 83, it was me asking you to provide an example where I said that 720p is crap. You didn't do that... because I made no such post. Instead of doing that, you try to flip it with...

No, I did not...I said such an argument was being made (in this thread), not that you were necessarily making it...as in comparing 720p to "instant coffee" with the not so subtle implication that instant coffee is "crap" compared to the real thing (1080p) (post #77)...I quoted you directly because you were complaining about an argument (720p is better than 1080p) that wasn’t actually being made (anywhere in this thread), and countered with my own complainant toward an argument that was actually being made…

...to which I pointed to some examples within this very thread, which seems to be conveniently ignored.

Not ignored…I just don’t think what you posted/quoted proved anyone was arguing that 720p was better then 1080p….”as good as” or indistinguishable under many situations by most people perhaps, but not better….

This is easy to agree upon. However, the implication you seem to be making is that "most people" are fine with 720p. In reality, "most people" buying an HDTV in the last few years have probably bought one that is 1080p; are there even 720p HDTVs still available (other than maybe kitchen-sized screen)? "Most people" that bought an HD Camcorder in the last year have probably bought one that is 1080p, not 720p (are there many 720p-capped camcorders still available?). "Most people" have bought a BD player instead of an TV in spite of the latter offering so many more, EXCELLENT benefits. Etc. In short, where there are choices about 1080p vs. 720p, it appears that "most people" spending money are actually choosing to buy 1080p hardware.

If the "most people" to which you refer are TV buyers, it's easy to argue that "most people" are choosing 720p when it's the ONLY option. By that standard "most people" appeared to NOT want an iPhone 4s until Apple made it available for them to buy it. "Most people" did not want a Tablet device until they could buy an iPad. "Most people" cannot demonstrate they want a 1080p TV until there is one that they can buy.

And again, note that Apple themselves have embraced 1080p in the iPhone 4s. So if they are building hardware for these "most people" and "most people" want 720p, why make that (apparent) mistake(?) with the iPhone?

But even all that said: a 1080p TV still plays that 720p to its fullest for those "most people". They lose nothing with upgraded video playback hardware. A 1080p TV does not obsolete 720p. It just gives us an added benefit, much like a retina display over a pre-retina display (3Gs's still sell well) or quad cores over dual cores over single cores. Etc. No loss when we get better hardware to play the same software.

Feel as you wish about this topic as I will too. In the end, a 1080p TV is a product that can appeal to even more people without requiring any video quality sacrifices for those that like things "as is". Sticking with the "as is" limits the market to those sufficiently happy with 720p or less. In one scenario Apple wins another, perhaps sizable segment of new customers and more revenues; in the other, they don't.

As an Apple shareholder, I'd like Apple to sell more of these. I'd like this to rise out of "hobby" status and run with the other "legs of the table". I'd like Apple to reach brand new customers who haven't bought something from Apple before. Look how well little devices like iPods, iPhones, iPads have brought in new buyers- some of which then get into Apple enough to pay up for Macs and other Apple hardware. As an Apple consumer, I'd like to buy 3 more TVs... that don't cap off their "HD" at 720p 30fps.

IMO, 720p may have been good enough (**FOR ME**) in 2007 when I bought my first TV. But it's 2012 now and I'd really like all of my 1080HD media (like hundreds of HD camcorder videos I've shot since about 2004-5) to be TV-conveniently viewable at the resolution in which they were shot. iMovie 06 could import, edit & render them at 1080. For years now, iTunes could import them and play them at 1080. I've had >720p HDTVs since about 2001. I'd sure like that ONE remaining link in the chain to come from Apple.

Stop acting like I am arguing against a 1080p ATV just because I find 720p acceptable; once again, I am all for it...I will gladly buy one when it comes out, hopefully sooner than later...

However, most people wouldn’t know the difference between 720p, 1080i or 1080p if all three bit them on the ass…Most people, even those with nice 1080p TVs, still watch most of their content in under 1080p...most people probably don't even understand or realize it...or care…

Clearly, you’re not most people…

----------

Who said anything about not wanting the option of 1080p? I'd welcome it.

If you not with him, you’re against him…

 

[richman555]

I believe Apple will produce a 1080p capable ATV3 in the near future

In the meantime, if 720p is good enough for you, then I highly recommend moving to digital downloads using ATV2.

At $99 it is also a great value.

I do recommend to make sure you have ample disk space to store your library. I have a 2TB external firewire drive which is working just fine.

I have 89 movies and 32 TV shows which have taken about 681GB.

 

[ChipmunkTX]

Works great for an Apple family

Everyone that lives at our place has an iPhone, so the ATV2 is a great fit. In fact the original remote is somewhere gathering dust. We find ourselves sitting around throwing up YouTube videos, etc. I can see why people like and dislike it, but if your house is already filled with iOS devices, it just makes things easier...didn't say better or cooler, but a big appeal is how easy Apple makes things for non tech issues.

I wasn't aware that Hulu is availiable if jailbroken... this is enough for me to try my first attempt at jailbreaking! Wish me luck.

 

[dona83]

We love our ATV2 so much I bought a second one for our bedroom. When they drop an A5 chip in and make it 1080p capable, I will buy a third and move the original ATV2 to another bedroom. I want to right now but meh I'll wait.

 

[ansalmo]

I watch iPlayer and 4OD on my Apple TV using AirPlay from the iPad but native apps would be a welcome addition.

AirPlay's OK as a workaround, but it's a rubbish solution really isn't it? Having to use a battery-powered device to stream content to a mains-powered device that actually has enough capability to run the apps itself. And it means that I can't use the iPad for anything else at the same time. I'd probably lose my job if I suggested that sort of software solution at work!

 

[ron2012]

Tim Cook still considers Apple TV a "hobby"

I guess Tim forgot that the whole industry started out as a "hobby"... or are they just holding back? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice that when mirroring for iPhone 4s and iPad 2 was enabled the Apple TV took off. Just imagine if the "Back to the Mac" project would enable mirroring for the rest of us old timers with MacBooks... How many more Apple TV would be sold? Let's throw another bone out there for the rest of older iPhone and iTouches out there, how many more Apple TV millions would be sold? It would help all thoes exec's and teachers with older products hooking up VGA (so un-cool) cables to demo there cool stuff. Come on Tim... If it is only a hobby... throw out mirroring for all of us. I know Tim you are probably thinking if I give them mirroring next there going to want iPhone and iPad apps there MacBooks. Tim I am glad you thought about it I think that's a good Idea... When is the release? Just think of the millions...

 

[jacob11]

for the price of apple tv, you can get a wdtv media player. more features, better value too.

You can't compare a apple TV with a wdtv media player.

 

[mwulf67]

You can't compare a apple TV with a wdtv media player.

Why not? The smart consumer should at least compare ATV to the WDTV, Roku, and Boxee before making any purchase...

 

[mdelvecchio]

And if Apple does roll out a 1080p TV, you both won't be interested and will rail against Apple for that (apparent) overkill?

i dont rail against anything. computers are a past-time, not my passion.

and nope, i didnt buy the 1080 atv. 720 at my viewing distance is the same.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Seemingly lost in all this 720p vs 1080p debate, is the fact that the chip powering the ATV2 is almost 2 generations behind.

A5's 1Ghz ARM A9 chip should still be more than plenty fast enough and the GPU is also pretty serviceable. It's definitely well ahead of the A4 even with just a single core.

I think the new Apple TV's A5 is hugely under appreciated and underutilized considering how much it is ahead of other competitors' processors with an up-to-date A9 core and 512MB of RAM. Other competitors such as Roku and WD TV use chips that are much slower - and presumably cheaper - as a general purpose tool. Some apps would indeed be welcome here. Interestingly Apple TV is one case where Apple is not getting enough credits for putting in some good hardware and Apple isn't saying much about it either even though it destroys competitors' hardware.