Apple Staff Complain About Plans for Return to Office Work in Letter to Tim Cook

[MacBH928]

I didn't read the letter nor the article, but for people commenting on the employees being brats well thats what you get when you preach "soft" culture. I am all for equality and fairness, but I am also for responsibility. Its one thing to have equal pay and getting your rights, but its another thing when you start a mental health support program for people who had a nervous breakdown because a stranger at the coffee shop looked at them in a demeaning way.(exaggeration is intended)

Tim: guys we spent 87 billion dollars on this building, now haul your asses back in here.

My god... I didn't realise it was that much. Are they even sane? I thought $10B tops and that is a looney number.
Thats probably more expensive than buying whole towns.

I’m 100% on Team Remote Work. I’m so much happier working at home now. I’m saving thousands of dollars a year on gasoline, and reclaiming 5-10 hours of my life per week from not having to commute. From an employer’s perspective, I’m more productive, too, and I’m never late getting to work or to a meeting. Luckily, my company has been very accommodating, and embraced working from home, so we’ve been able to reduce our office space lease from an entire floor of a large building to a couple of small offices, saving us close to $150K a year.

If the employee can do 1:1 of the work the same, I am all for it the gains are just too much. I never understood going to the office when the same can be done at home. The money and time savings in enormous benefits as you mentioned, plus think about how much less traffic you are causing to people who have to go to the office not to mention all the carbon dioxide saving on the environment.

That thousands in gas price is scary, thats a real difference. Didn't imagine gas can be so expensive per year.

 

[citysnaps]

Google and other companies that are flexible about home working would be more than happy in taking disgruntled Apple employees.

And Apple would be more than happy to let unhappy employees go and find happiness.

 

[ctucci]

Problem was that it seemed they deliberately leaked the letter to theverge. Perhaps to generate an uproar to pressure Apple into capitulating.

This isn’t the tone of someone with a “it won’t hurt to ask” mentality. It’s akin to someone banging their fists on the table and going “my way or the highway”. To their boss.

No matter how magnanimous I may be, if I as the boss were to give in to their demands here and now, what sort of example would I be setting and what sort of message would I be sending? That it’s okay to sidestep proper channels and use this sort of pressure tactics to get their way?

I will never be able to hold my head up high in front of all the other employees ever again.

Apple can’t stop people from continuing to pull this exact same tactic in the future, but they can send a very strong message that it will not have the desired outcome they are hoping for.



Then perhaps we should be that to the test. If these people are as valuable and indispensable and you make them out to be, they would have no problems looking for a better job elsewhere and Apple would be in big trouble from the exodus of talent.

You all should be clapping and cheering.

Ain't gonna lie, if they leaked it to boost pressure instead of simply submitting it up the chain, then as management, I'd probably take the same position as you describe.

 

[citysnaps]

I wonder how SJ would react. Probably would just fire all those who were in that letter.

True that!

 

[cmaier]

Nothing did happen. Have you seen Apple's revenues for 2020?

You think the stuff they sold in 2020 was designed and engineered in 2020?

 

[cmaier]

My god... I didn't realise it was that much. Are they even sane? I thought $10B tops and that is a looney number.
Thats probably more expensive than buying whole towns.

An 8000 square foot lot in Cupertino costs north of $2 million. The whole town is more than 3x10^8 square feet. So that would put the town at $75B.

 

[Abazigal]

You seem to think Apple is a burger joint of some sort. When you're hiring talented and scarce labor, the power relationship goes the other way.

And we genuinely wish them all the best in their next job where they would hopefully be able to negotiate for the working conditions they so desire.

Though if I were their next employer, and I was aware that they left their previous job after trying to pull such a stunt (and leaking it to the press no less), I am not sure I want to be potentially dealing with such an issue in the future. No matter how talented they may be. Feels like I am just digging a hole for myself to lie in.

I hire employees to solve problems for me, not cause them.

 

[Powerguru]

Reduce these employee’s salaries by 60%. If they want to WFH then why would Apple hire Americans in America. These Apple employees are way over spoiled. “Union mentality” Apple, Google and Amazon are about to get taste of their own medicine. Allowing employees to speak their mind in such issues is never a good idea. Employees will never see the bigger picture. That’s why there is something called management and rest are employees. If they don’t want to come to office then reduce their pay or let them take their decision.

 

[gene731]

Soooo, if I’m willing to go in all 5 days, just for a job there, will I be called a scab? 😅

Only if you’re crossing a union picket line do you earn the title of “scab”

 

[triptolemus]

You think the stuff they sold in 2020 was designed and engineered in 2020?

Judging by the bugs, yes.

 

[Apple_Robert]

While there have been some jabs thrown back and forth between opposing sides, overall, it has been a good discussion even if we don't agree on everything. That is very unusual for MR. Thanks, guys.

 

[citysnaps]

Judging by the bugs, yes.

I purchased an M1 MBA and iPhone 12 in 2020. Both outstanding.

 

[return2sendai]

Wow! A “union-like” list of demands. But will Apple coders et al. strike in Cupertino like Apple store employees have in Japan?

 

[jcmoney10]

Some of the entitlement displayed in these threads is astounding. If I worked for a company that:
1. Supported me through the pandemic
2. Gave some form of extra remuneration to help me through it
3. Didn’t fire me
4. Gave me a raise/bonus as if nothing has happened
5. I’m basically whole in June 2021 while plenty of people had terrible circumstances…

I would be like: “what do you want me to do?” Not making the employer out to be the bad guy.

lol and if you don’t think that company won’t think twice about firing you the second they no longer find you valuable, then you’re nuts. A company only does those 5 things you mentioned because it’s advantages to them. You don’t “owe” a company for doing the right thing.

 

[triptolemus]

If you made it this far, you deserve a prize.

 

[jcmoney10]

And yet Apple pays engineers less than other companies in the valley. So maybe it isn’t about pay and benefits.

Not sure where you’re pulling that info from (assuming the clouds, but would love to be proven wrong), but when I did a quick search of the average engineer pay at Apple vs Twitter (my original example). They were almost the same, with apple paying slightly more.

 

[cmaier]

Not sure where you’re pulling that info from (assuming the clouds, but would love to be proven wrong), but when I did a quick search of the average engineer pay at Apple vs Twitter (my original example). They were almost the same, with apple paying slightly more.

Twitter is a very different kind of company than Apple. Twitter doesn’t make hardware. I am comparing jobs for electrical and semiconductor design, based on personal experience. It’s also a very commonly-spoken thing in Silicon Valley.

 

[falainber]

Some of the entitlement displayed in these threads is astounding. If I worked for a company that:
1. Supported me through the pandemic
2. Gave some form of extra remuneration to help me through it
3. Didn’t fire me
4. Gave me a raise/bonus as if nothing has happened
5. I’m basically whole in June 2021 while plenty of people had terrible circumstances…

I would be like: “what do you want me to do?” Not making the employer out to be the bad guy.

Apple did not do anything different from other tech companies. If other companies offer remote work now, why should not Apple employees consider switching the employer?

 

[Sheldrake]

“Campus culture” is dead. it was a BAD idea to begin with.

Now what to do with that new building…

 

[fuchsdh]

Problem was that it seemed they deliberately leaked the letter to theverge. Perhaps to generate an uproar to pressure Apple into capitulating.

This isn’t the tone of someone with a “it won’t hurt to ask” mentality. It’s akin to someone banging their fists on the table and going “my way or the highway”. To their boss.

No matter how magnanimous I may be, if I as the boss were to give in to their demands here and now, what sort of example would I be setting and what sort of message would I be sending? That it’s okay to sidestep proper channels and use this sort of pressure tactics to get their way?

I will never be able to hold my head up high in front of all the other employees ever again.

Apple can’t stop people from continuing to pull this exact same tactic in the future, but they can send a very strong message that it will not have the desired outcome they are hoping for.



Then perhaps we should be that to the test. If these people are as valuable and indispensable and you make them out to be, they would have no problems looking for a better job elsewhere and Apple would be in big trouble from the exodus of talent.

You all should be clapping and cheering.

I mean, it's the employees' right to do that. Obviously releasing it to the press is a PR stunt, but I doubt it'll really affect things one way or another, especially considering this is something basically every other company is grappling with. Nor do I think Apple's really going to be petty and vindictive on the people who wrote it—I mean, they could, but that's not a great strategy either. However to your point about "how will that make them look if they capitulate"—operating your company like a totalitarian regime where any sign of weakness means disaster is a terrible way to run a company.

The reality is Apple can be tremendously bad about responding to stuff until the press gets involved. See for example how many developer stories of woe only get solved when John Gruber or Joanna Stern or similar trumpet it out.

There's definite advantages to working remotely, but there are perks to the office as well. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want to work partially or fully remotely, nor do I think companies that want people back in the office are just out for power tripping and micromanaging, especially a company like Apple that has a giant campus they own and operate for a large staff (not like you can just rent it out if you're not using some of the space) and prides itself on close-knit collaboration.

To me the only truly unreasonable positions are at the extremes: the companies who refuse to admit anything's changed (Covid accelerated trends, but this has been a long time coming) and the workers who want all the benefits of remote work without accepting downsides (you can live wherever you want but Apple is going to factor cost-of-living into their wages if you're not in the Bay Area, and I have to imagine being a fully remote worker is going to hurt your overall chances in the company if you're looking for promotion, just the way social creatures operate.)

 

[355922]

What a bunch of BS. Get back to work or step aside. There are plenty of other people willing to work for a paycheck. What a world we live in today. 🤪

Apple btw breeds this insanity with some of their messaging trying to be woke.

 

[I7guy]

Apple is one of the most profitable companies in the world. They'd be nothing without these very employees. Stop defending corporations over real people.

Stop defending the type of entitlement seen in this thread.

 

[I7guy]

lol and if you don’t think that company won’t think twice about firing you the second they no longer find you valuable, then you’re nuts. A company only does those 5 things you mentioned because it’s advantages to them. You don’t “owe” a company for doing the right thing.

Absolutely correct on every count. By the same token an employer doesn’t owe an employee a guaranteed WFH schedule of the company’s choosing.

 

[I7guy]

Apple did not do anything different from other tech companies. If other companies offer remote work now, why should not Apple employees consider switching the employer?

Every situation is different. Apple is entitled to their policies. The flip side is they risk losing valued employees. Only Apple can make that determination. But I totally get your point.

 

[triptolemus]

I mean, it's the employees' right to do that.

I don't care where you work. Read that employee handbook and it'll talk about some policies with regards to things like social media and besmirching the company's reputation. The word "right" is terribly overused in this context. While it may be their "right" to do this, Apple has a few "rights" of their own, which typically manifest themselves as "consequences" to the employees who pulled this stunt.