3 minutes? Ours is usually 30 minutes to get through all the team members and discuss anything we need to discuss. Then we sometimes chat about various things for a few minutes - bonding which apparently some here think is not as good as in person.
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Apple Staff Complain About Plans for Return to Office Work in Letter to Tim Cook
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Sorry, I got mired in responding to people who clearly have no idea what software development, or many forms of electrical engineering design work entails. My original comment was apple execs must be rolling over in their graves thinking about how much money they've spent on having the best offices anywhere and then finding out they never needed them. Also, how ticked off is Tim gonna be when he realizes his employees see words like "inclusion" to be meaningless terms they can just throw in to try to manipulate people? lol, rofl. lmao.
Then you're doing "stand up" wrong. All these things are tracked in our online task-assignment tool anyway. The stand ups are just a way for someone to grab my attention if I've missed the email notifications that their task is blocked.
Yes, 3 minutes. The non-engineers used to say it was creepy when all of a sudden all the engineers would stand up simultaneously and then silently walk to a circle. They also complimented us on how efficiently we get it done. lol. Sometimes, our product design people, who have almost no respect for the scheduling of meetings, are so late to meetings with engineering that we actually finish the entire meeting before they show up. Of course, if they do show up, they'll drag it out at least 45 minutes longer. But that's why we don't let them talk if they come to stand up.
We are working on increasing our bonding opportunities. Like I said, we are thinking about needing 1 day per week when we can do social activities. We used to have one of the most active cultures I've ever seen, lunch together every day, happy hour fridays at 4, parties once a quarter, "engineers eat extravagantly" on fridays where we always did a late lunch. Been missing some of that. Although we still do the happy hours online. Recently, it's been nothing but good-bye parties for all the people quitting to work at companies who will let them work remotely. Which is odd, given that we're all still working remotely. It's just we won't be, some day. but 3 days a week in office? no. Truth is, working remote is fine for culture as long as you have enough social contact outside of work, and you respect your coworkers by getting stuff done when you say you're going to get it done by. And social contact outside of work is what covid really killed.
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No we are not. With a team of 20 people, even a brief "what are you working on, any roadblocks, any help needed" is typically 1 minute per person.
What is a Daily Scrum?
The Daily Scrum is a 15-minute event for the Developers of the Scrum Team. To reduce complexity, it is held at the same time and place every working day of the Sprint. If the Product Owner or Scrum Master are actively working on items in the Sprint Backlog, they participate as Developers.
We have plenty of further discussion after the main 15 minutes, where we can talk more about our roadblocks or assistance which leads to the 30 minute timeframe. Also, no being in person would not improve things, as this is what it was even before the pandemic.
Seems like a lot of people against this letter either don’t have the option to work from home, or are salty for some other reason. It’s clear that working from home can work for a lot of businesses. I understand some of the arguments against these employees since Apple needs to be highly secretive, but they’ve clearly been doing it just fine over the last year. It actually seems like this last year has been slow in the rumor mill compared to previous year. Some people work better with how things are currently, others obviously not. Not everyone wants to work around a lot of people. Not everyone works at their best around a lot of people. Apple should at least entertain the idea for those that want it.
It has also been shown that one of the leading contributing factors to a person’s overall happiness is their daily commute. If you don’t HAVE to commute 1 to 1.5 hours a day back and forth in traffic, why would you want to? That’s also less pollution in the air from emissions, less accidents due to less vehicles, etc.. You people are salty for some reason, but that doesn’t make you right in this situation. It may not work for everyone to work from home, but it does for a lot of people. That has been clearly proven over the last year.
If you work a job that didn’t have the option to even work from home, you can just leave the conversation or find another job. Don’t try to call these people entitled whiners or complainers because you can’t even begin to understand.
Edit: I speak from experience. Last year, I negotiated my job be changed to work from home permanently and moved back to my home town.
There’s nothing wrong with these employees asking to change the requirements of their jobs, especially if they’ve proven to their superiors that they are responsible enough to do the job right.
It has also been shown that one of the leading contributing factors to a person’s overall happiness is their daily commute. If you don’t HAVE to commute 1 to 1.5 hours a day back and forth in traffic, why would you want to? That’s also less pollution in the air from emissions, less accidents due to less vehicles, etc.. You people are salty for some reason, but that doesn’t make you right in this situation. It may not work for everyone to work from home, but it does for a lot of people. That has been clearly proven over the last year.
If you work a job that didn’t have the option to even work from home, you can just leave the conversation or find another job. Don’t try to call these people entitled whiners or complainers because you can’t even begin to understand.
Edit: I speak from experience. Last year, I negotiated my job be changed to work from home permanently and moved back to my home town.
There’s nothing wrong with these employees asking to change the requirements of their jobs, especially if they’ve proven to their superiors that they are responsible enough to do the job right.
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It would be pointless sitting at a desk in a mask all day too. You’re not going to be at risk if the desks are suitably distanced and the office has good air flow. Most places require you to wear a mask if you leave your desk, not whilst sat at it.
I don’t understand why WFH should be a right either? It’s a perk that some companies offer and a nice one. A company doesn’t have to offer it if it’s not in their best interests.
If they are paying people to work for 8 hours a day and some of those WFH are working around 6 because of the distractions at home, then that is the employees fault, not the company. It’s not about not filling the position at all and all about finding the right people for the job.
People who refuse to go into work due to the risk but then regularly go out and expose themselves to the same risk are hypocrites. They show a lack of respect and commitment to the company. It’s one or the other, they can’t be selective just because it’s a ‘bit nicer to work from home’.
Remote working is great but if these spoiled pricks don't think there are millions of people out there HAPPY to take their place in a multi-billion dollar high tech building of the #1 company in the world, they're in a freaking psychosis.
Generation Coddled.
Generation Coddled.
No ****! We just remembered the D-Day invasion (my Dad - Combat medic on Utah) in which boys from every corner of life put their literal all on the line to literally save the world - and these delicate daisies are whining about having to go to a workplace.
i completely understand. I’d put it in these terms: ‘what’s most important, compensation or better happiness at work?’. Im in the camp of giving up some compensation for a job that provides better piece of mind.
But that’s irrelevant to the point, however. Apple Cupertino/Silicon Valley employees are some of the best compensated corporate workers in the US (Pay + bennies). Their management has now outlined 3 days a week in the office. This is not unreasonable. Otherwise these employees can go independent to do contract work, like yourself, or get a job at a much much smaller company that needs to save on RE cost and has been doing WFH from well before Covid, like myself (it my particular niche industry, much of tech support has been WFH. Saves RE cost, keeps the group geographically well dispersed in case of localized major outages).
A lot of bootlickers revealing themselves in this forum. Would love to see what y’all would have said 100 years ago about the 40 hour work week revolution. Were those factory workers who fought for it “whiny losers”?
Many other tech companies are listening to their employees. I’m proud of my company for trusting it’s adult employees to manage their own time by keeping us fully remote. I’ll never again work for a company with arbitrary in-office requirements.
Many other tech companies are listening to their employees. I’m proud of my company for trusting it’s adult employees to manage their own time by keeping us fully remote. I’ll never again work for a company with arbitrary in-office requirements.
As someone who always wished to have the ability to work remotely and was thus thrown in to remote work last March, I wouldn't want to go back to the office environment either. No commute, still having constant communication with co-workers via Zoom and Slack, no drop in productivity, etc, etc, etc. The pros are endless while the cons are but a tiny, tiny list.
Thank you for the amazing job that you do.
Thanks. You're well appreciated and I value you a lot and so do many other individuals.
But to be honest, Apple could always find better employees that play by their rule.
Many gaming companies (comparing to gaming companies) and IT Support companies (again, comparing because I have experience in this field) can find better employees. Especially nowadays.
Seems like experiences of the future make people want to stay there. Who knew people wouldn't want minders over their shoulder? Kind of like the green cities we got during the lockdown. Who wouldn't want to live in that future green reality?
And let's face it, the iPhone made working from home possible in the first place. I say embrace it. Or else.
Or else face a cultish workplace full of needy people who need in person validation. Imagine, an entire workplace full of "that guy" or "that girl".
And let's face it, the iPhone made working from home possible in the first place. I say embrace it. Or else.
Or else face a cultish workplace full of needy people who need in person validation. Imagine, an entire workplace full of "that guy" or "that girl".
Wow.....some of you really have an opinion on this. "spoiled brats", "petulant child", etc, etc.....
The fact of the matter is this. The pandemic has shifted significantly the way we all work.
My job became remote when we were forced outright at the start of the pandemic in March 2020, and when I voiced my request to go for a more hybrid approach, I was made redundant. It was the best thing that ever happened to me.
I now work entirely remotely, earning the same but with more opportunity within my career but here's the clincher.
It's one silver lining from this pandemic.
The fact of the matter is this. The pandemic has shifted significantly the way we all work.
My job became remote when we were forced outright at the start of the pandemic in March 2020, and when I voiced my request to go for a more hybrid approach, I was made redundant. It was the best thing that ever happened to me.
I now work entirely remotely, earning the same but with more opportunity within my career but here's the clincher.
- I no longer spend 3-4 hours a day commuting to work.
- I worked out I save between 9,000eur per year on travel costs.
- Fuel
- Tyre wear
- Brake wear
- Car depreciation
- (New cars as a result of the old ones wearing out)
- Workshop costs
- Toll charges
- Parking
- Lunch at work (about 8x more expensive than those at home)
- Coffees at work (about 6x more expensive than those at home)
- More time with my family and watching my son grow up more.
- Being able to help my wife with the school run and having more involvement in my son.
- Being able to exercise daily
- (Prior to the pandemic I was 95kg. I am now 77kg)
- I'm fitted, healthier, and able to enjoy my cycling more than ever.
- My times are flexible so I can finish the odd day a little earlier and then carry on later.
- I have my own workspace with the equipment I like, and I want. More productive.
- I get to sit in my home, enjoying the views that I paid for instead of an airconditioned, germ fest building where when one colleague catches a cold, the entire department gets sick
- I don't need to battle with air-con wars. (I don't believe you if this was never an issue in your office. Either ice-cold or sauna hot).
- I don't have to travel in the rain. My commute to work is up the stairs.
It's one silver lining from this pandemic.
I walk to work, how's that for you? Mh? How's that? Walk, use a public transport. Don't complain and go back to office. Most people have gained weight and I see many of my coworkers slacking off at home.
A company requesting their very robustly compensated Corp. workforce to be at the Corp office (amazing office at that) 3 days a week is equal to underpaid, unprotected, overworked factory workers of a century ago? That is hilarious. Hey, Keep up that fight to win decent working conditions for the privileged. They’ll need your ad absurdum if they’re ever going to win this momentous struggle.
That trend has been fully underway since the mid-1990s. Jobs still here have already been vetted for offshoring and the decision was made to keep it state-side.
I'm split on this. I do think the letter comes across as that of spoilt children and I don't think 3 days a week is unreasonable. It is very entitled, and unless they were signed up while this was in place, then they should realise that they accepted to work in an office beforehand and that this is almost a perk.
That being said, I am a believer of if the job is being done, does it really matter where it is? My partner works 1 day a week from home, and it makes a massive difference to both of our lives due to the ability to get other things done at the same time. All of the work she is required to do is done, and some, due to the extra productivity.
Personally, if I worked out how much of my 7 hour per day office shift was actually working rather than just being there, I could probably cram it all in to 7 hours PER WEEK.
That being said, I am a believer of if the job is being done, does it really matter where it is? My partner works 1 day a week from home, and it makes a massive difference to both of our lives due to the ability to get other things done at the same time. All of the work she is required to do is done, and some, due to the extra productivity.
Personally, if I worked out how much of my 7 hour per day office shift was actually working rather than just being there, I could probably cram it all in to 7 hours PER WEEK.
This thread is pure gold.
I fully expected Apple's new policy to not go down well.
The reality is that people have now tasted the forbidden apple (heh) and does not want to spit it out.
Talented people will start moving to companies that offer WFH. Don't expect talent to cling to Apple at all costs, there are many tech companies that will pay equal or more than Apple, and offer just as much challenge, while letting you WFH.
Spotify has decided to let anyone who wants to keep WFH, I fully expect a lot of other tech companies to follow suit.
Why work for a company that forces you to live in high expense areas just so you can fill their expensive office space?
I have no doubt Apple can "succeed" in bringing the workers back, but will it still be the talent they need?
Sure, there are a lot of people who'd gladly come work at Apple and be in the office 5 days a week or more, but they don't work for Apple now, there's gotta be a reason for that, perhaps they were deemed not talented enough?
As a tech company, is "willing to work in office space" really the kind of employee requirement that makes your company successful?
My guess: Apple's PR department is now working overtime (from home) to spin this so that Tim Cook can announce their new all-WFH policy as a major breakthrough in workplace satisfaction and environment achievement any time soon.
I fully expected Apple's new policy to not go down well.
The reality is that people have now tasted the forbidden apple (heh) and does not want to spit it out.
Talented people will start moving to companies that offer WFH. Don't expect talent to cling to Apple at all costs, there are many tech companies that will pay equal or more than Apple, and offer just as much challenge, while letting you WFH.
Spotify has decided to let anyone who wants to keep WFH, I fully expect a lot of other tech companies to follow suit.
Why work for a company that forces you to live in high expense areas just so you can fill their expensive office space?
I have no doubt Apple can "succeed" in bringing the workers back, but will it still be the talent they need?
Sure, there are a lot of people who'd gladly come work at Apple and be in the office 5 days a week or more, but they don't work for Apple now, there's gotta be a reason for that, perhaps they were deemed not talented enough?
As a tech company, is "willing to work in office space" really the kind of employee requirement that makes your company successful?
My guess: Apple's PR department is now working overtime (from home) to spin this so that Tim Cook can announce their new all-WFH policy as a major breakthrough in workplace satisfaction and environment achievement any time soon.
Even in Silicon Valley, $120K ($6,600 net) is a sizable salary. People there lived on far less. I lived in San Francisco for almost 15 years; just moved away right before the pandemic. The issue with the area is that virtually EVERYWHERE around it was overpriced and expensive. There were very few places you could escape to even within an hour's commuting distance, so I can see why people are reticent to go back to the office. For many, it probably served as a wakeup call just how much they were giving up having to live in the Bay Area.
I remember people acting like $100K ($5,600 net) in the city was starvation wages though; it's not. A decent studio could be found there in the $1,800-$2,200 range, but it might be in the Tenderloin/Lower Nob Hill. Don't get me wrong, it sucks (and is ill-advised) to spend 40% of net income on rent, but the whole point of living in SF/SV is to network and progress, not to start out bougie and spend all your money because you "have to" live in a loft, and like you said, drive a Beamer like "everyone else". Lol. That's so spoiled, especially fresh out of college, even if it's a high-demand talent. I can resonate with people being sick of California prices though, and a lot were exasperated because they felt like they had these great jobs (and some worked very hard) but did not the swift upward social mobility that the salaries sounded like they were.
As far as Apple went, I knew several in the $120K range and several in the $150-$200K range. I knew of people in the $200K-$500K+ range there, but they were often the types of people who didn't even need to work. Lots had their names on patents and such. The way Apple operated was that they knew they paid well but would never pay the best, and they really expected their employees to view it as a privilege to work there. As they grew, I don't think they could get away with it as well. Top engineers could be offered double the salary and such. What I heard from a past employee was that if they were getting poached and used it to try to justify a salary increase, the Apple managers' replies would generally just be like, "OK cool go work for Google. Have a nice day." Lol.
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I think most in this thread are giving their opinions and remaining respectful without derogatory digs, however you are an exception. It’s give and take when you work for a company and if it works for some companies to allow everybody to work from home then great. The issue I have is the opinion it should be a right available for all. Not everybody deserves the right to work from home and the pandemic exposed those who are company people and those who are not.
Seeing a different point of view doesn’t make anyone a boot licker.