Apple Starts Improving Vision Pro Personas in visionOS 1.1 Beta

[rukia]

Meta's latest Codec Avatars are way better than Apple's Personas:

If you insist on comparing oranges to llamas then Hollywood does even better using motion capture equipment and specialized workstations. Unfortunately the time required to set things up will make me think long and hard about making that FaceTime call.

 

[kevcube]

In my business, I would ban this for workplace calls. Being able to see people's faces and actual expressions is important to build trust in a workplace. It's already hard enough to build a cohesive, productive team with people working remotely.

These cold, dead, waxy ghosts are creepy and weird. They are the opposite of 'authentic', they are entirely synthetic and artificial. A 2D video feed of someone that is their actual face is more authentic than a 'spatial representation' that is entirely computer generated.

I'm going to put these in the same category as the 'facebook is going to cure loneliness' predictions of 2011.

that sort of luddite attitude toward banning novel things would have me considering leaving your business.

these will only get better and are more engaging in their current state than a flat person on a zoom call. they probably increase the attentiveness of call participants too.

 

[kevcube]

Just read The NY Times review on the AVP. In a nutshell, the first generation headset lacks polish and purpose.

are those your thoughts or theirs?

 

[vegetassj4]

Great, now you look like a improved ghost of yourself

Did some say ghost avatars?

 

[tomtad]

Apple always used to talk about how their devices were tools, and you'd use the best tool for the job. A iPad for drawing, a Mac for work etc.

Surely the best tool for a video call will never be something where no one can see you on video. Just take the thing off and use something else.

This is, and always will be, an animated phone call. What is the point?

 

[tcgjeukens]

Does the update come in new colours

 

[tobyringle69]

Call me crazy, and weird, but when it comes to these headsets, I'd be way way happier for them to totally scrap persona's, totally scrap spooky-eye-vision and 100% focus on a MUCH W-I-D-E-R field of view, and pass through quality.
For me, a VR Headset (which this is) is all about MY experience, so I want this to be the best it can be.
If I want to talk to others I have multiple ways to do it already without a Vision Pro.
I want Vision Pro to focus on the things that a headset main function is. MY VIEW.

Both of these features are "optional". No one is forced to use them.

 

[wikiverse]

that sort of luddite attitude toward banning novel things would have me considering leaving your business.

these will only get better and are more engaging in their current state than a flat person on a zoom call. they probably increase the attentiveness of call participants too.

If someone were arrogant and stupid enough to resign a well paid job because they can't use the equivalent of an emoji avatar in a zoom meeting, then they're definitely not the kind of person I'd want continuing to work in the business and it would be a blessing to see them leave.

The same is true for someone shallow enough to care about the attractiveness of call participants, rather than the quality of their work or the ideas and skills that they bring to the job.

 

[8KYUP]

Call me crazy, and weird, but when it comes to these headsets, I'd be way way happier for them to totally scrap persona's, totally scrap spooky-eye-vision and 100% focus on a MUCH W-I-D-E-R field of view, and pass through quality.
For me, a VR Headset (which this is) is all about MY experience, so I want this to be the best it can be.
If I want to talk to others I have multiple ways to do it already without a Vision Pro.
I want Vision Pro to focus on the things that a headset main function is. MY VIEW.

Hi,

Have you tried a light seal with a lower depth number (middle of the 3 sizing characters)? From experience that can greatly improve or eliminate FOV issues as well as glare issues, etc.

Sizing and coding for the Vision Pro light seal

Hi guys, it seems (internet) that Apple Vison Pro Light Seals use a three character code. In the example 23W The first character (2) represents overall width the second character (3) represents depth and the third character (W) represents nose bridge width (N=narrow, W=Wide). Apple Vison Pro...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[anthogag]

The new Persona is better. It needs more skin surface and hair resolution.

 

[NMBob]

And now we run into the opposite problem: It's too HD. That detail is really distracting, that fake greasiness is trying to look realistic but in an awful way, and there's that weird uncanny dead look in those eyes.

I hate to say it, but that ugly cartoon version of Zuck has more the right idea. A good artistic style ages more gracefully than trying to make the most realistic model possible. The problem is they need to find an artistic style that isn't absolutely atrocious, blinding, or corporate and soulless

This one?

 

[jdavid_rp]

You think that these things are sitting in boxes? How would there not be usable data?

No, but I suppose you need lots of input to get conclusive information and that would take time and internal testing

 

[Mr_Ed]

You think they're not working on that? The team creating personas isn't the same working on the hardware to get a wider FOV.

I’m sure you are correct, but this still sort of makes @Piggie ‘s point. Why are resources put to Persona when the users’ own experience should be so much better? Yes, Apple is huge and can “walk and chew gum at the same time”, but whether intentional or not, these kinds of announcements speak to “priorities” in a lot of people’s minds. Example: on my last college semester I started interviewing with a number of companies but I avoided interviewing with one in particular because they had a dress code for SW engineers. It was not that I was dead set against wearing whatever, it was that the organizational priorities projected by the rules were off.

 

[newyorksole]

They've gone from PlayStation 3 to PS4 quality. Weird that this happened so fast, they could've saved themselves a bunch of negative press by just delaying a few weeks. March would still be early 2024.

eh you know what they say “no such thing as bad press”. the bad Personas got people talking and now people are going to be like “oh wow the VO does XYZ and they also improved Personas?! it just got even better.”

I think something like that going from bad to much better does well for sales, but who knows.

 

[steve09090]

I’m sure you are correct, but this still sort of makes @Piggie ‘s point. Why are resources put to Persona when the users’ own experience should be so much better? Yes, Apple is huge and can “walk and chew gum at the same time”, but whether intentional or not, these kinds of announcements speak to “priorities” in a lot of people’s minds. Example: on my last college semester I started interviewing with a number of companies but I avoided interviewing with one in particular because they had a dress code for SW engineers. It was not that I was dead set against wearing whatever, it was that the organizational priorities projected by the rules were off.

Meanwhile Samsung are working on the next version of Smart Tags. This is version 1 of AVP. People spoke a lot. I mean A lot about this being a developers AVP, yet consumers are loving them. Let them develop and when V2 comes out, we can complain about priorities.

eh you know what they say “no such thing as bad press”. the bad Personas got people talking and now people are going to be like “oh wow the VO does XYZ and they also improved Personas?! it just got even better.”

I think something like that going from bad to much better does well for sales, but who knows.

Just like Stickers seems to be a 'thing'. Apparently. People lap this stuff up.

 

[gwhizkids]

I bet it needed training data from real world use.

I doubt that if, by “real world use”, you mean since the AVP was available to the public. The beta would have been in development for many weeks before being released yesterday. But I’m sure they’ve gotten internal feedback from those who’ve been dogfooding the device internally.

 

[Orange Bat]

I know it’s become a “thing” to make fun of the Personas feature, but this is perhaps the most amazing feature on Vision Pro. A device that can render a pretty decent representation of a human being and their facial expressions in real-time is a ”sci-fi become real” kind of thing. And it’s not done on some high-end computer, but an M2 chip in headset. That’s remarkable, even if it isn’t perfect.

While there is no way I’d buy an AVP at this stage, I think the technologies that it presents are pretty amazing. However, they AVP doesn’t seem quite ready for primetime and I hope that this thing is successful enough and in 5-6 years I may take another look when the tech is more mature.

 

[Orange Bat]

I get the idea behind shipping the product before ironing out a lot of these features. You get lots of attention from the initial release and then drip feed updates to keep content creators pushing out "check out this latest update" to stay being the main product people are talking about. Seems to work well.

Nothing improves consumer technology like getting it in the hands of users. Apple gets data from how people use their devices and use that data to improve the technology.

 

[jimbobb24]

Personas is built off Portrait Mode isn’t it 😏

The lighting and depth effect look exactly like the early versions of Portrait Mode minus the additional (new) rendering.

No..or maybe? When you make a persona you can select the type of lighting you want. Portrait mode and its effects are one of the options.

 

[gwhizkids]

The Uncanny Valley appearance aside, you can see the impact of the data they’ve gathered to optimize this via the Memoji app. I’m sure that was built into iOS more as a test bed for this tech more than for the amusement of iOS users.

 

[miguel cortez]

Meta's latest Codec Avatars are way better than Apple's Personas:


View attachment 2346645

That's what having a detailed 3D scan taken in a special studio for a number of hours will get you. VERY different process than looking at a camera for a few seconds and having the device stitch it together in about a minute.

 

[law0915]

These personas remind me of a deceased person coming back as a spirit in a movie or something and that they have to be portrayed as not the actual living person. Maybe that's why people are freaked out by it. That and the hair people have complained about.