Apple states NO CASH Sales for iPhones, plastic only

[Sobe]

you can even get a visa check card from paypal.

It's simply not an issue unless you just feel like complaining or have something to hide.

 

[plumbingandtech]

you can even get a visa check card from paypal.

It's simply not an issue unless you just feel like complaining or have something to hide.

People will always find something to complain (or conspire) about.

Mark my words.

When the SDK ships, there is going to be a subgroup of whiners because:

a) It's not "open" enough.
b) You might have to be a registered developer.
c) To get a valid public keysign, you will have to go thru apple.
d) They may be a fee to get your app tested.
e) Apple is going to require a credit card for SDK testing therefore apple is evil and part of the martian overlord brigade that really runs this country.
f) Where's my SDK REBATE???!!!!!!

 

[hotshotharry]

Yeah, Apple aleady has an estimated quarter of a million phone problem with UNLOCK/HACKED phones that may or may not upgrade their firmware properly. That's a mess. It's going to cause them to push back enhancements even further just to make sure hacked iPhone owners with possibly screwed up firmwares don't:

A.) Upgrade and brick their phone
B.) Upgrade and lose their non-authorised phone service

Either option is unacceptable for the owner's point of view, yet Apple basically is left to one or the other (A. being incidental, B. being more intentional). The only REAL option is just saying, "NO, WE WON'T UPDATE YOUR PHONE CAUSE YOU CHANGED IT". And recording all the phones IMEI's that call in, and will never get warranty service.

Man... crazy crazy.

~ CB

The real problem here is that apple should be listening to their consumers who are obviously saying we dont want the ipod touch, we want an iphone with no contract. And judging by the numbers this seems somewhat substantial. Instead of being jerks they should release the product like the people want. Instead they choose to restrict access to it! I know a lot of people who wont switch to apple regardless of how good it is because of apples smug, you will do as we say, attitude. They really need to lose the attitude.

I wonder what the world would be like if/when apple becomes a bigger player in the different markets. Will we be told how we can use our stuff? Will we not have certain features because Steve doesnt like blue tooth or games for example?

Apple has almost made a precidence of requiring updates which gives them an opportunity at every update to do something that willl prevent previous "hacked" versions from working properly or force you to live withought functionality! I personally love the fact that apple continually makes their products better, but we are also opening ourselves up for situations like these.

Its obvious the only reason they are not accepting cash is so they can trace their sales. It ensures there is a path for legal recourse if/when such a time comes. This doesn't specifically affect me in this situation, but as a whole people should fight this as it sets a precidence for unnofficial spying and tracking of ALL your personal activities. People only seem to fight for "freedom" (from terror?) they can see, however they are missing the stuff their own government and companies are doing to them.

For those of your who are offering solutions for not having debit or cc! Wake up, solutions are well known, its the principle thats the problem here. I can see apples side! but if they just offered the right product to begin with there wouldnt be a problem like this!

 

[Buschmaster]

I don't know of a phone company that requires a credit card to start service. That is crazy that people are so willing to go into debt for things nowadays. I don't think it is discrimination but I do think it makes poor business sense to deny those with money but no credit to buy an item. Next thing people will suggest is Apple stop selling equipment to tourist.

That seems strange to me, since a phone line is a form of credit, and somebody without any credit being given the opportunity to run up a $300 phone bill and leave the company hanging dry is a strange thing.

 

[DVNIEL]

That seems strange to me, since a phone line is a form of credit, and somebody without any credit being given the opportunity to run up a $300 phone bill and leave the company hanging dry is a strange thing.

Thats the purpose of the $500-$750 cash deposit when they first sign up for a plan. OR going prepaid.

 

[Sobe]

The real problem here is that apple should be listening to their consumers who are obviously saying we dont want the ipod touch, we want an iphone with no contract. And judging by the numbers this seems somewhat substantial. Instead of being jerks they should release the product like the people want. Instead they choose to restrict access to it! I know a lot of people who wont switch to apple regardless of how good it is because of apples smug, you will do as we say, attitude. They really need to lose the attitude.

I wonder what the world would be like if/when apple becomes a bigger player in the different markets. Will we be told how we can use our stuff? Will we not have certain features because Steve doesnt like blue tooth or games for example?

Apple has almost made a precidence of requiring updates which gives them an opportunity at every update to do something that willl prevent previous "hacked" versions from working properly or force you to live withought functionality! I personally love the fact that apple continually makes their products better, but we are also opening ourselves up for situations like these.

Its obvious the only reason they are not accepting cash is so they can trace their sales. It ensures there is a path for legal recourse if/when such a time comes. This doesn't specifically affect me in this situation, but as a whole people should fight this as it sets a precidence for unnofficial spying and tracking of ALL your personal activities. People only seem to fight for "freedom" (from terror?) they can see, however they are missing the stuff their own government and companies are doing to them.

For those of your who are offering solutions for not having debit or cc! Wake up, solutions are well known, its the principle thats the problem here. I can see apples side! but if they just offered the right product to begin with there wouldnt be a problem like this!

The problem is one of perspective, not substance.

The principle is that people who unlock their iPhones are effectively buying an unsubsidized iPhones at a subsidized price because hackers can exploit security flaws to let people out of paying the roughly $400 they would to apple over the life of the contract.

The alternative to thwarting Apple's business model is absurd because it only works if people buy into it.

Without people like me (and others) who are willing pay Apple ~$800 over the life of the phone, unlockers don't get an iPhone for $399 and most likely there isn't an iPhone made because Apple isn't willing to shoulder 100% of the risk on just selling phones.

This is a business not a means to give you the toys you want.

The sooner people figure that out, the less hostility they will have towards Apple and just see it for what it is -- a company trying to make a buck.

 

[Cleverboy]

This is a business not a means to give you the toys you want.

The sooner people figure that out, the less hostility they will have towards Apple and just see it for what it is -- a company trying to make a buck.

Not only that, but Apple has a roadmap that takes into account real market conditions and reality that would never occur to the average consumer. They have ample incentive to create deals that work in the best interest of their company, and people buy the products and agree to these terms, and others buy the products and do not agree, yet complain as if they were tricked into something. They scream and complain to those that don't think the terms are bad, and commiserate with others that do... but it never changes that core, immutable reality of capitalism and free enterprise.

The hostility will continue no matter what. It's the way it is.

There is only one possible end, if it were to come (but hopefully we can avoid it.) Until everything is free like the air, energy is abundant and renewable, food is plentiful and good for us, and capitalism is dead as a doornail, there will always be someone complaining about the gap between what's possible, what's not possible, and how difficult it may be to span the divide between them when the only difference is defined by civilized society.

--And when that bright sunny day dawns upon us, when we're all equal and have want of nothing... beware the night. The morlockes will come with their apetites like a long dark shadow streching out from the past.

Or something.

~ CB

PS. (Imagine for a moment, the morlocke in a black turtle neck and jeans).

 

[Sobe]

Morlockes scare me...

The whole debate leaves me queasy. It's like some bizarre Ayn Randian nightmare where people think these products are just plucked off a tree somewhere and that they have some crazy right to turn someone else's creativity, effort, and investment into whatever they want.

It's like, yeah thanks for making it, now get the hell out of my way while I take what you did and do everything with it that your design and business model sought to prevent..and while I subvert your goals and dreams in the course of pursuing my own with what you have created, I will curse you for not taking my wishes into account, having the audacity to state that my goals do not further your own, and making the fulfillment of my own desires easier with what you have offered to me.

It's rather frightening. But most of all, it's just rude.

 

[boss1]

Well that is your moral logic and you apply it toward a consumer to a business relationship but I don't. If a person I knew gave me a gift, the relationship is different and everything you just said would apply.

However this is not a friend/friend relationship nor a relative/friend relationship or anything of the likes. This is a consumer/business relationship where there was a monetary exchange for product of equal value. Once the transfer of ownership is done a consumer is within his moral rights to complain about whatever doesn't suit his/her tastes.

the fact that Apple designed a masterful work of art which is the iPhone makes this product no exception.


If I had the opportunity to hire Leonardo da Vinci for X amount of dollars to paint me portrait, I would feel free to complain about every draft & detail until I saw something that suits my needs. And after I paid for the first painting, I'd throw in my 2 cents at him about how he could improve at every opportunity, with the prospect in mind that he's working on a second revision and I may/may not purchase it.

 

[Phobophobia]

Its obvious the only reason they are not accepting cash is so they can trace their sales. It ensures there is a path for legal recourse if/when such a time comes. This doesn't specifically affect me in this situation, but as a whole people should fight this as it sets a precidence for unnofficial spying and tracking of ALL your personal activities. People only seem to fight for "freedom" (from terror?) they can see, however they are missing the stuff their own government and companies are doing to them.

How is it unreasonable to ask for credit card as payment on a product that requires a credit card to use?

 

[Sobe]

Well that is your moral logic and you apply it toward a consumer to a business relationship but I don't. If a person I knew gave me a gift, the relationship is different and everything you just said would apply.

However this is not a friend/friend relationship nor a relative/friend relationship or anything of the likes. This is a consumer/business relationship where there was a monetary exchange for product of equal value. Once the transfer of ownership is done a consumer is within his moral rights to complain about whatever doesn't suit his/her tastes.

the fact that Apple designed a masterful work of art which is the iPhone makes this product no exception.


If I had the opportunity to hire Leonardo da Vinci for X amount of dollars to paint me portrait, I would feel free to complain about every draft & detail until I saw something that suits my needs. And after I paid for the first painting, I'd throw in my 2 cents at him about how he could improve at every opportunity, with the prospect in mind that he's working on a second revision and I may/may not purchase it.

And Leonardo would rightfully say "these are the conditions under which I am willing to paint for you. You can take them or leave them."

In your example though, you'd agree to his terms then when he was off painting the Mona Lisa, you'd hire someone to change "Madonna on the Rocks" and turn it into something you wanted.

Which is fine, except that you agreed to something else entirely.

Leonardo would be completely correct to put you on a list of people he would prefer not to paint for since you proved to share a different vision of his creative powers.

And if Leonardo used novel paints which were difficult to restore or modify, going back to him and complaining should rightfully earn you a "next time don't take my art and do whatever you want with it and maybe I will help you in the future" response.

The end.

 

[Cleverboy]

Morlockes scare me...

The whole debate leaves me queasy. It's like some bizarre Ayn Randian nightmare where people think these products are just plucked off a tree somewhere and that they have some crazy right to turn someone else's creativity, effort, and investment into whatever they want.

It's like, yeah thanks for making it, now get the hell out of my way while I take what you did and do everything with it that your design and business model sought to prevent..and while I subvert your goals and dreams in the course of pursuing my own with what you have created, I will curse you for not taking my wishes into account, having the audacity to state that my goals do not further your own, and making the fulfillment of my own desires easier with what you have offered to me.

It's rather frightening. But most of all, it's just rude.

You are SO right. Couldn't have said it better. Before long, we'll be asking who is John Galt? The world had better find out before too long, 'cause he's coming to take your iPhones. The last goddamn thing I'd want to hear in this world is a customer who thinks they can scream at me for telling them the terms under which they can use my product and still receive support... violate those terms, and turn around an get angry at me when I tell them I'm not cool with it.

Some stupid kid did this recently and put it on Youtube. Walks in with a phone with no SIM card in it, and says "It's not working!" God knows what he'd already done to it, yet after screwing up the phone's software he wanted to pretend he didn't do any such thing. Meanwhile, customers simply dropping phones are getting replacements simply due to the goodwill generated by not actually violating the warranty. Go figure.

~ CB

 

[Madame Defarge]

Woz support iPhone rebels

Morlockes scare me...

The whole debate leaves me queasy. It's like some bizarre Ayn Randian nightmare where people think these products are just plucked off a tree somewhere and that they have some crazy right to turn someone else's creativity, effort, and investment into whatever they want.

It's like, yeah thanks for making it, now get the hell out of my way while I take what you did and do everything with it that your design and business model sought to prevent..and while I subvert your goals and dreams in the course of pursuing my own with what you have created, I will curse you for not taking my wishes into account, having the audacity to state that my goals do not further your own, and making the fulfillment of my own desires easier with what you have offered to me.

It's rather frightening. But most of all, it's just rude.

It's all rather frightening? Like Steve Wozniak?

You think that Steve Wozniak (sexy hunk on left) has already filled as much of your techie heart as humanly possible, and then he starts dating Kathy Griffin and you kind of don't know how that makes you feel because you were never much of a fan, and then he blesses iPhone unlockers everywhere with his glorious, sweaty Woz hands.

From a business point of view, Apple owns what they have done. They have a right to lock it. But I am really for the unlockers, the rebels trying to make it free.

I'd really like it to be open to new applications. I'd like to install some nice games. Why in the world can I not install a ringtone that I've made? How would that hurt AT&T's network? Here is Steve Jobs sending letters to the record companies saying [they] should provide music that's unprotected, but here he is taking the opposite approach with the iPhone. I don't know to what extent AT&T is involved in the thinking and direction.
Oh Woz, we don't either!!

 

[Sobe]

It's all rather frightening? Like Steve Wozniak?

You think that Steve Wozniak (sexy hunk on left) has already filled as much of your techie heart as humanly possible, and then he starts dating Kathy Griffin and you kind of don't know how that makes you feel because you were never much of a fan, and then he blesses iPhone unlockers everywhere with his glorious, sweaty Woz hands.

From a business point of view, Apple owns what they have done. They have a right to lock it. But I am really for the unlockers, the rebels trying to make it free.

I'd really like it to be open to new applications. I'd like to install some nice games. Why in the world can I not install a ringtone that I've made? How would that hurt AT&T's network? Here is Steve Jobs sending letters to the record companies saying [they] should provide music that's unprotected, but here he is taking the opposite approach with the iPhone. I don't know to what extent AT&T is involved in the thinking and direction.
Oh Woz, we don't either!!

How about you go create something that people want to spend money on.

When you have done that, feel free to adopt any old business model you prefer.

Please let me know what you have created. I will be happy to make a movement to try to "free" what you have done.

 

[seedster2]

But this is clearly targetted at people who come into stores with a wad of (untraceable) cash, buy a bunch of phones, unlock them and sell them.

Those same people will now have to use credit cards in some form. Sure they can set up straw buyers or use stolen CC #s, but there will still be a paper trail which can be used for investigation or prosecution as needed or desired.

Prosecution is where I still have questions, what can be done to a person(s) who buy a phone do not sign a contract and utilize another carrier besides AT&T?

Apple has the right to keep changing firmware and withholding unlocking codes, but consumers are protected and permitted to unlock any phone for their personal use

With numerous complaints about exhorbitant tarrifs overseas, it will be interesting to see how Apple's efforts to limit the influx of regionally diverted iphones. My guess is regardless of how many legal documents they draft it will still be an insurmountable task.

 

[Sobe]

Prosecution is where I still have questions, what can be done to a person(s) who buy a phone do not sign a contract and utilize another carrier besides AT&T?

Apple has the right to keep changing firmware and withholding unlocking codes, but consumers are protected and permitted to unlock any phone for their personal use

With numerous complaints about exhorbitant tarrifs overseas, it will be interesting to see how Apple's efforts to limit the influx of regionally diverted iphones. My guess is regardless of how many legal documents they draft it will still be an insurmountable task.

It probably wouldn't be an issue if you wiped the iPhone clean and used your own (or someone else's) software.

I suppose they could go after people who use their software on the iPhone outside of the terms of use, but I doubt they'd do that.

Most likely they'll just do what they are already doing -- make life difficult for people who want to hack and unlock and accept that some people will do it regardless.

 

[camarobh]

Simple

This is pretty simple....if you don't like it, don't buy it, and quit complaining.

 

[pedroistheman]

So couldn't someone just buy loads of apple gift cards with cash and buy the iphones with those, thus remaining untraceable???

I can't imagine Apple restricting its gift card purchases to only credit cards...


EDIT: so you can't but iphone with gift cards anymore?

 

[xy14]

the law

sorry if anyone posted this, but there is such a law that requires stores to accept cash (excluding the internet for obvious readons).

Ever seen the part of the dollar bill that says, "legal tender for all debts, public and private"??

 

[Dybbuk]

sorry if anyone posted this, but there is such a law that requires stores to accept cash (excluding the internet for obvious readons).

Ever seen the part of the dollar bill that says, "legal tender for all debts, public and private"??

Keyword is debts.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Keyword is debts.

Yup. If you owe someone money for goods/service already given, they cannot refuse cash. But for good or services not yet given, the seller may choose any form of payment they wish. They haven't already committed to anything. You have to meet their terms and conditions if you want their product.

For example, they could even specify 'barter only' if they really felt like it.

So AT&T can't refuse to accept cash for payment of your phone bill, but Apple can refuse to accept cash to purchase an iPhone.

 

[/"\/oo\/"\]

From what I've read, Apple is doing this so that hackers don't buy a lot of phones, unlock them and then resell them.

While I get why Apple wants to prevent that, this is one more example of how Apple has changed from the lovable underdog to the far less lovable corporate giant.

That's exactly what it is- apple is trying (very hard) to keep these phones from getting into the hands of unauthorized resellers and then having hacked phones getting into the hands of unknowing consumers, who are none-the-wiser that they have a phone that is not eligible for service and has better odds at being bricked by an update.

Seems to me that for the most part, apple is doing the average consumer a favor by preventing unauthorized resellers doing business.

 

[Black Belt]

Apple is Spying on you. Apple is Big Brother. Apple is betraying creativity of the marketplace to enforce greed and control over your freedom.

This is worse than 1984. Oh the irony.

 

[BigPrince]

ok, so is it two iphones per credit card?

 

[kdarling]

The point is, unlocking is legal. Apple has now put themselves on the line, publicly saying they're trying to stop unlocking.

At least before, they carefully tried to claim that any update bricking would be "accidental".

Now they're getting bolder.

It's almost like they're begging for a lawsuit, or for Congress to jump on them, so they can settle things once and for all.

Or, hmm... perhaps, looking for a way out of their ATT exclusivity.