Apple states NO CASH Sales for iPhones, plastic only

[mastermix]

I bought an iPhone on Saturday, with cash. I also bought the Bluetooth earpiece and a Leopard Family Pack.... over $700.

I would have been pissed if I had been turned away considering that I wanted to buy the phone the day before, but the store was closed until 6PM due to the Leopard launch...

 

[bytethese]

The Consumerist is now reporting on this...

http://consumerist.com/consumer/no-...-enough-for-apples-precious-iphone-315923.php

So anyways, they're also adding the information that

A) No giftcards can be used to purchase an iPhone and
B) The credit card must have the purchasers name on it (e.g. you cant use one of those pre-loaded credit cards)

I think you can pay AmEx an extra few bucks to get the name on the card. Just get a friend with a credit card to get you a personalized AmEx "gift card".

 

[0098386]

I don't know which will be worse.

Walking past off-licenses and having kids asking me to buy beer/cigs for them, or walking past an Apple store and having hackers ask me to buy iPhones for them.

 

[jediistar]

This is getting ridiculous

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/29/apple-not-just-refusing-cash-also-refusing-apple-gift-cards-for/

I can't imagine how this is going to go over for the holiday season when gift card purchasing is at an all time high and the desire to receive gift cards over actual material gifts is becoming more and more common. This is not a good move and while I can understand the business aspect behind this whole charade, not accepting your own currency is borderline ridiculous. Figure out another way to get the customers information, have them activate in store if necessary.

 

[ucfgrad93]

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/29/apple-not-just-refusing-cash-also-refusing-apple-gift-cards-for/

I can't imagine how this is going to go over for the holiday season when gift card purchasing is at an all time high and the desire to receive gift cards over actual material gifts is becoming more and more common. This is not a good move and while I can understand the business aspect behind this whole charade, not accepting your own currency is borderline ridiculous. Figure out another way to get the customers information, have them activate in store if necessary.

My guess is that Apple will allow the iPhone to be purchased with gift cards after the holidays. This seems aimed at preventing the price of the iPhone from shooting through the roof in the secondary market.

 

[DickArmAndHarT]

i bought my iPhone with cash on launch day and there were a ton of others doing the same. This is certainly a nuisance for those without credit and who are to lazy to get a debit card.

 

[plumbingandtech]

sorry if anyone posted this, but there is such a law that requires stores to accept cash (excluding the internet for obvious readons).

Ever seen the part of the dollar bill that says, "legal tender for all debts, public and private"??

Incorrect.

The reason why was in one of the posts you did not read before posting this.

 

[dvkid]

Completely illegal. Did they even check with their lawyers before they did this crap?

On what grounds? Apple Stores have the right to refuse service to anyone. But in this case instead of hand picking people not to sell to which would undoubtedly launch lawsuits, they are instituting an across the board rule that applies to everyone that walks into the store.

Just as some stores opt to not accept credit at all are in no way breaking the law, neither is Apple.

Additionally, don't be surprised if similar, albeit minus the credit card requirement, rules go into place at AT&T stores through the holiday season. If Apple is angry about the phones being unlocked and resold, than AT&T is probably angry*5.

As far as not having a credit card goes, you can obviously pay by check. But if you have a checking account there is a good chance you also have a bank debit card emblazoned with the logo of Mastercard (Cirrus) or Visa. Either of those would also work, as they are processed in almost an identical manner to credit cards.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

The point is, unlocking is legal. Apple has now put themselves on the line, publicly saying they're trying to stop unlocking.

There's the sticking point. It has never been tested in the U.S. if unlocking is truly lega. (Where I don't mean violating criminal law, but violating civil laws, such as copyright.)

The 'proof of legality' that has been bandied around is that the DMCA prohibits bypassing encryption routines, except for scholarly research; but every three years, the copyright office publishes a list of 'exceptions' to the DMCA. In the last cycle, they included cell phone unlocking. This list gets re-done every three years, and there is no guarantee that an exception from one cycle will be included in the next cycle. This means that unlocking a cell phone does not (currently) violate the DMCA, but nobody has ever tested to see if it violates ANOTHER law. For example, it might be perfectly legal to lock a user into one carrier at time of equipment purchase (aka, the iPhone's software license agreement.) In which case, the DMCA exception doesn't apply, and unlocking the iPhone may very well be "illegal", in that unlocking it violates the software license agreement included with the iPhone, completely separate from the DMCA.

Oh, and the next round of exceptions gets published in 2009. Meaning, if the cell phone unlock exception might very well get taken out before the first iPhones drop off their AT&T contracts. (Those who got month-to-month service, rejoice!) And, of course, no law has ever compelled a cell phone provider to unlock a phone. AT&T unlocking Motorola SLVRs is pure "goodwill" from AT&T, they don't have to do that at all.

 

[logicalnoise]

by Apples own terms they would have to refund a giftcard if it couldn't be used in their store, correct?

 

[juliuspleaser]

I just picked up an iPhone last thursday and luckily had a US address I could use (I am canadian). I inquired about the US/Canada warranty issues and found out that US/Canada it is the same warranty so you can buy in US and get warranty work in Canada. THe only thing they stated was that if the phone is unlocked (ie. not their software on there), then they won't touch it regardless of the problem. But if you re-virginize the phone they will honour the warranty.
With finding that out, my friend went down on Sunday with the idea to buy 5 iphone (2.5 hour drive from us) to resell in Canada. Once we got down there we found out about the 2 per person limit so his plan got shot down. Then they didn't want to sell him 2 phones as he only had cash.
Luckily he used the law to his advantage and really pulled a number on them. Yes, they are within their legal rights to not accept cash, but legally if someone attempts to pay for an item and you refuse to accept their payment, they can't be charged with theft.
So he offered the cash about 3 times and then finally just gave up and left.... with his cash and the 2 iPhones. They threatened to call the cops but didn't when he told them to go ahead and explain how he tried to pay but they wouldn't accept his legal tender currency. So they just let him walk out of the store. I would never have the balls to try that myself, but my friend is a little crazy sometimes and when he is in the right he doesn't care the risks

 

[ibwb]

Luckily he used the law to his advantage and really pulled a number on them. Yes, they are within their legal rights to not accept cash, but legally if someone attempts to pay for an item and you refuse to accept their payment, they can't be charged with theft.

This is a completely false notion invented by criminals to justify their own actions to themselves.

 

[seedster2]

by Apples own terms they would have to refund a giftcard if it couldn't be used in their store, correct?

I wonder if they've added a new disclaimer and/or provided guidance to the new limitations with their giftcards? This whole approach is silly. They better offer refunds to people who received gift cards previously and cant use them towards the purchase of an iphone.

I doubt it will deter resellers from sending phones overseas. It will, at best, slow the pace and/or help with warranty servicing issues.

Only carriers have access to what phones are being used on their own networks via referencing the IMEI. As far as Apple and AT&T can tell the phone simply hasnt been activated.

 

[goosnarrggh]

For example, it might be perfectly legal to lock a user into one carrier at time of equipment purchase (aka, the iPhone's software license agreement.)

Not going to bother arguing against that point.

But you chose a bad example to support the point. Read the full text of the iPhone Software License. The words "ATT" and "AT&T" never show up anywhere at all. The words "network" and "carrier" never show up in any context that I would construe as obliging locking into any specific network.

 

[FoxyKaye]

Apple could say that they will only accept pebbles in exchange for an iPhone.

When that day happens, I am so ready for it.

I must be missing the point of this discussion, though. What's the big deal? Who buys like 10 iPhones anyhow? Likewise, even bank accounts now have MasterCard/Visa, if you don't have a charge card proper, can't you always use your debit card? I'm hard pressed to believe that someone without a bank account and no credit cards to their name would want to suddenly plunk down cash for a brace of iPhones anyhow. And I'm sure the big spenders who want to outfit their entire family with iPhones for the holidays (and there's what, like 150 of these folks in the entire country?) will find a way around the 2 phone purchase limit.

 

[FoxyKaye]

I just picked up an iPhone last thursday and luckily had a US address I could use (I am canadian). I inquired about the US/Canada warranty issues and found out that US/Canada it is the same warranty so you can buy in US and get warranty work in Canada. THe only thing they stated was that if the phone is unlocked (ie. not their software on there), then they won't touch it regardless of the problem. But if you re-virginize the phone they will honour the warranty.
With finding that out, my friend went down on Sunday with the idea to buy 5 iphone (2.5 hour drive from us) to resell in Canada. Once we got down there we found out about the 2 per person limit so his plan got shot down. Then they didn't want to sell him 2 phones as he only had cash.
Luckily he used the law to his advantage and really pulled a number on them. Yes, they are within their legal rights to not accept cash, but legally if someone attempts to pay for an item and you refuse to accept their payment, they can't be charged with theft.
So he offered the cash about 3 times and then finally just gave up and left.... with his cash and the 2 iPhones. They threatened to call the cops but didn't when he told them to go ahead and explain how he tried to pay but they wouldn't accept his legal tender currency. So they just let him walk out of the store. I would never have the balls to try that myself, but my friend is a little crazy sometimes and when he is in the right he doesn't care the risks

I call BS.

 

[pyrex]

Completely illegal. Did they even check with their lawyers before they did this crap?

It is not illegal, they do not have to accept cash, money is legal tender for all DEBTS public and private. And since you do not owe apple money but instead, want to purchase something, they have the right to refuse cash.

 

[Sobe]

I think the thread itself speaks for the wisdom of this policy.

This guy's "friend" wanted to buy 5 to resell.

What method of payment did he use?

Cash.

'Nuff said.

 

[goosnarrggh]

It is not illegal, they do not have to accept cash, money is legal tender for all DEBTS public and private. And since you do not owe apple money but instead, want to purchase something, they have the right to refuse cash.

On the other hand, consider the credit card company which is actually paying for that iPhone up front... they're the ones who are obliged to provide some mechanism by which you can make good on your debts to them by means of cash payments.

 

[/"\/oo\/"\]

There's the sticking point. It has never been tested in the U.S. if unlocking is truly lega. (Where I don't mean violating criminal law, but violating civil laws, such as copyright.)

The 'proof of legality' that has been bandied around is that the DMCA prohibits bypassing encryption routines, except for scholarly research; but every three years, the copyright office publishes a list of 'exceptions' to the DMCA. In the last cycle, they included cell phone unlocking. This list gets re-done every three years, and there is no guarantee that an exception from one cycle will be included in the next cycle. This means that unlocking a cell phone does not (currently) violate the DMCA, but nobody has ever tested to see if it violates ANOTHER law. For example, it might be perfectly legal to lock a user into one carrier at time of equipment purchase (aka, the iPhone's software license agreement.) In which case, the DMCA exception doesn't apply, and unlocking the iPhone may very well be "illegal", in that unlocking it violates the software license agreement included with the iPhone, completely separate from the DMCA.

Oh, and the next round of exceptions gets published in 2009. Meaning, if the cell phone unlock exception might very well get taken out before the first iPhones drop off their AT&T contracts. (Those who got month-to-month service, rejoice!) And, of course, no law has ever compelled a cell phone provider to unlock a phone. AT&T unlocking Motorola SLVRs is pure "goodwill" from AT&T, they don't have to do that at all.

Good point about the DMCA exception- however (IIRC) the exception essentially states that unlocked phones can only be used for personal use and that phones cannot be unlocked for purposes such as financial gain or business gain, ie unauthorized resellers selling unlocked iphones at a premium.

 

[/"\/oo\/"\]

I call BS.

As do I.

 

[megfilmworks]

Completely illegal. Did they even check with their lawyers before they did this crap?

Oh come on, what do you think?
And can you quote the law that makes this illegal?

 

[beeeen]

I didn't mind the no cash policy, but I'm upset I can't use my gift cards toward the purchase. With the holidays just around the corner, I was hoping to get a few gift cards from relatives and use them toward the phone. Honestly, that's taking it to far. Apple is shooting themselves in the foot by not accepting gift cards. I guess I'll just have to use it to buy a case/screen protectors.

 

[megfilmworks]

Until recently (with the pay as you go plans for the credit crippled)
no one could not get a cell phone without a credit check. Now people complain because they have to use plastic?
Anyone with a bank account can get a debit card which is fine for the transaction.

 

[RL600]

could one possibly purchase a gift card and buy an iphone with that?

No!
Probably cause of me. A little bit over a month ago i walked in with all $20s. I blame ATMs, They only give $20 bills! I'm only 17, what am I supposed to do?