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I sold short at $194 and covered thir morning at $101 :D gonna go out and celebrate later and i'll be upgrading to a macbook pro when the new revisions come out :cool:

This is the kind of ridiculous post one might see on the yahoo finance board after grade school gets out. Anyone who actually shorted at 194 would have covered long before that, or knows nothing about the market.
 
This is an odd time to downgrade Apple, since just two days ago, analysts were raving about how much cash Apple has (I think they said $21Billion cash) compared to other computer companies. Dell and HP are selling assets and cutting jobs, while Apple does not have to do any of that because they have a huge amount of cash. Add in the income from iPhone sales (which continue every day), iMacs, and the MILLIONS of iPods that will be sold this holiday season, and Apple is looking in pretty good shape! :)

(these junior analysts will be very regretful after Apple reports earnings in October)

Worse than an odd time--it was a choreographed takedown. The language used in spinning in the RBC downgrade was a joke. In August, Changewave reported slowing computer industry sales (only 8% intended to buy a laptop and 5% a desktop), except for Apple which was booming. The survey was taken in early August. Anyone remember what was going on then (hint: until September 15). And then a month later, roughly 20 people say they no longer intend to buy a Mac in next 90 days. Think 20 out 570 might have intended to buy a Mac during promo or for back to school in general? No one bothered to mention that; instead spun that percentage which went from an all time high to just a high was biggest decrease in 2 1/2 years. When an "analyst" who is supposed to be smart enough to foresee what might be happening fails to mention the obvious, that's no accident. That's intended to tank the stock.
 
Damn them also - I voted for that freak'n idiot in the White House twice - I'm disgusted and really believe we are witnessing the failure of democracy in such a pluralistic society - government can't get anything done. :mad: :mad:

sorry off-topic..

Can you explain to a European how that is exactly possible? Especially the second time round there must have been some indication that this guy has no idea of what's going on (and I mean that in the widest possible sense).

How can people look past these things? Especially with someone who has so much power in government as the president?

And in the situation now. How is it possible that people will vote for a potential vice-president who hasn't even got a passport until recently and "knows what foreign politics is" only by reading books?
 
I moved in at $160. And am holding on with a meditative patience. I admit it is painful and disconcerting when I realize I have 68% of my savings on AAPL. I just 'know' that things are bound to bounce back. What we are seeing is a knee-jerk gut response that lacks any rational basis.

If I can afford it, I will buy more.
 
I admit it is painful and disconcerting when I realize I have 68% of my savings on AAPL.

I have AAPL stocks too, and agree that the share price will bounce back, but I advice you to spread your risk more and look for some anticyclic stocks. 68% is too much in any portfolio, unless you have bought only two AAPL stocks and your total savings are 500$


Worse than an odd time--it was a choreographed takedown. The language used in spinning in the RBC downgrade was a joke. In August, Changewave reported slowing computer industry sales (only 8% intended to buy a laptop and 5% a desktop), except for Apple which was booming. The survey was taken in early August. Anyone remember what was going on then (hint: until September 15). And then a month later, roughly 20 people say they no longer intend to buy a Mac in next 90 days. Think 20 out 570 might have intended to buy a Mac during promo or for back to school in general? No one bothered to mention that; instead spun that percentage which went from an all time high to just a high was biggest decrease in 2 1/2 years. When an "analyst" who is supposed to be smart enough to foresee what might be happening fails to mention the obvious, that's no accident. That's intended to tank the stock.

Agree. The consensus among analysts of about three weeks ago was a price target from $200 to $250. A few days later the target is suddenly $100 to $115. I cannot imagine the value of the company Apple halving because less computers will be sold in the future.. Not logical.. The analysts must have been wrong at one or either of the ends...
 
Looks like the market is set to open on the up side. AAPL is trading up almost 3 point in pre-market trading.

I have $6,500 in cash sitting in my brokerage account. I'm going to buy another 50 shares at opening.
 
More, just on AAPL alone, if you must know. I can't even think about the rest of the carnage in my portfolio. Put it this way, not long ago I was thinking I might able to at least semi-retire in ten years or less. I can forget about that now I expect. I am now further away from that goal than I was five years ago. It seems the people who are celebrating Congress' inability to act to head off a genuine crisis in the economy are living in a completely different universe than me. They get to keep their ideology pure while the rest of us get wiped out. Nice tradeoff.

I won't use the term "lost", but was also down a multiple of that on aapl alone today. However, if you gave me the choice of getting out today for 160, but having to stay out for 2 years, or sitting pat, I would stay with my present holdings. Just learn to like cat food for a while.
 
This worry about one company taking a stock hit when the entire market is having problems is like a solder in from a battlefield with an arm blown off and is riddled full of holes...yet everyone is concerned about a scratch on his forehead. :rolleyes:
 
" ... We'll get this bailout bill behind us and march back up. ..."

Is thus and ever shall be ...

Bought a boat load yesterday afternoon at around 106 ... 109, check that, 110 now and coming back ...

(The wifey has a few in her IRA and her Dad has a bunch with cost basis just over 26 ... )

Oh Blah Dee, Oh Blah Daa ... life goes on ! ... :apple:
 
I suppose you don't understand the magnitude of this issue as most people don't. The central issue here is what's happening to the credit market. The flow of credit has essentially come to a halt (or will soon if a package isn't signed into law).

There is simply no flow of credit in the banking system. What this means is that little or no lending will occur. What many people don't know is that many firms borrow to make payroll. So image this, you work for a company who needs to borrow so they can pay you. If they can't, you don't get paid. If you don't get paid, you can't make payments on a mortgage, car payment, credit card, etc ... Shall I continue?

This is a loopback effect that will bring our economy and perhaps the world economy to a standstill.

Credit default spreads have risen almost 200% in just 5 months. Most of you won't know what this means but for those of you who do, you'll know what I'm getting at.

Here's a confirmation of exactly what I was talking about. Pay close attention to the following quote in the article: 6.875%: LIBOR Tags All Time High

"The money markets have completely broken down, with no trading taking place at all. There is no market any more. Central banks are the only providers of cash to the market, no-one else is lending.''

In addition, the following is from Bloomberg:
"The cost of borrowing in dollars overnight surged the most on record after the U.S. Congress rejected a $700 billion bank rescue plan, heightening concern more institutions will fail.

The London interbank offered rate, or Libor, that banks charge each other for such loans climbed 431 basis points to an all-time high of 6.88 percent today, the British Bankers' Association said. The euro interbank offered rate, or Euribor, for one-month loans climbed to record 5.05 percent, the European Banking Federation said. The Libor-OIS spread, a gauge of the scarcity of cash, advanced to a record. Rates in Asia also rose...

Credit markets have seized up, tipping lenders toward insolvency and forcing U.S. and European governments to rescue five banks in the past two days, including Dexia SA, the world's biggest lender to local governments, and Wachovia Corp. Money- market rates climbed even after the Federal Reserve yesterday more than doubled the size of its dollar-swap line with foreign central banks to $620 billion. Banks borrowed dollars from the ECB at almost six times the Fed's benchmark interest rate today."


I rest my case.
 
I moved in at $160. And am holding on with a meditative patience. I admit it is painful and disconcerting when I realize I have 68% of my savings on AAPL. I just 'know' that things are bound to bounce back. What we are seeing is a knee-jerk gut response that lacks any rational basis.

If I can afford it, I will buy more.

Why not try a little diversification....I guess you HAD 68% of you savings with AAPL, its less now...time to ask just how much you 'know'. A lack of diversification would suggest you don't know very much.

Sorry, but perhaps you don't throw anymore money away on AAPL and then you 'know' a little more.

If AAPL goes bankrupt, how much savings do you loose? Is that risk, however small, worth it?
 
sorry off-topic..

Can you explain to a European how that is exactly possible? Especially the second time round there must have been some indication that this guy has no idea of what's going on (and I mean that in the widest possible sense).

How can people look past these things? Especially with someone who has so much power in government as the president?

And in the situation now. How is it possible that people will vote for a potential vice-president who hasn't even got a passport until recently and "knows what foreign politics is" only by reading books?

Well we aren't given very many choices is the problem. Even this time it's an old guy vs. someone who wants to spend even more than Bush. Anyone who speaks any truth that we can't keep deficit spending and need to cut back, etc... gets voted down because people love their entitlements. Owell.

Here's a confirmation of exactly what I was talking about. Pay close attention to the following quote in the article: 6.875%: LIBOR Tags All Time High

"The money markets have completely broken down, with no trading taking place at all. There is no market any more. Central banks are the only providers of cash to the market, no-one else is lending.''

In addition, the following is from Bloomberg:
"The cost of borrowing in dollars overnight surged the most on record after the U.S. Congress rejected a $700 billion bank rescue plan, heightening concern more institutions will fail.

The London interbank offered rate, or Libor, that banks charge each other for such loans climbed 431 basis points to an all-time high of 6.88 percent today, the British Bankers' Association said. The euro interbank offered rate, or Euribor, for one-month loans climbed to record 5.05 percent, the European Banking Federation said. The Libor-OIS spread, a gauge of the scarcity of cash, advanced to a record. Rates in Asia also rose...

Credit markets have seized up, tipping lenders toward insolvency and forcing U.S. and European governments to rescue five banks in the past two days, including Dexia SA, the world's biggest lender to local governments, and Wachovia Corp. Money- market rates climbed even after the Federal Reserve yesterday more than doubled the size of its dollar-swap line with foreign central banks to $620 billion. Banks borrowed dollars from the ECB at almost six times the Fed's benchmark interest rate today."


I rest my case.

You know, I'm calling FUD here. Just because someone won't buy something from you for the price you want doesn't mean it can't be sold (and definitely doesn't mean we need more gov. help). The threat of a bailout means banks are holding onto their bad paper with the hopes of getting more for it from the gov. than the open market will bring. The discount window is already open and taking pretty anything you bring as collateral. The gov. doesn't need to bring anymore of this mess on their books.

Are there some tough times ahead? Sure, but it won't be the end of the world. More banks will fail, but many banks are doing just fine because they refused to write the risky loans. Is getting a loan harder now? Yes, but the credit markets have not stopped. The only thing that has stopped is free flow credit to people who didn't deserve to begin with. A friend is buying a house this week and had zero problems getting a loan (with a crazy low fixed rate to boot!).
 
I won't use the term "lost", but was also down a multiple of that on aapl alone today. However, if you gave me the choice of getting out today for 160, but having to stay out for 2 years, or sitting pat, I would stay with my present holdings. Just learn to like cat food for a while.

To borrow a phrase, thanks but no thanks. I'm not a novice investor. I've been in AAPL since 1997. I rode out the big slide of 2000 and the years afterwards of being a forced long term investor. It paid off, but now most of that payoff for my patience and averting my eyes from the carnage, is gone. How much more patience should I have? Add to that, this is the second time in less than ten years we patient investors have been slammed hard. At this point, I'm looking for an exit. If I'm beginning to feel this way, I can assume that many others are as well, and not just about AAPL, but about the stock markets overall.
 
Here's a confirmation of exactly what I was talking about. Pay close attention to the following quote in the article: 6.875%: LIBOR Tags All Time High

"The money markets have completely broken down, with no trading taking place at all. There is no market any more. Central banks are the only providers of cash to the market, no-one else is lending.''

In addition, the following is from Bloomberg:
"The cost of borrowing in dollars overnight surged the most on record after the U.S. Congress rejected a $700 billion bank rescue plan, heightening concern more institutions will fail.

The London interbank offered rate, or Libor, that banks charge each other for such loans climbed 431 basis points to an all-time high of 6.88 percent today, the British Bankers' Association said. The euro interbank offered rate, or Euribor, for one-month loans climbed to record 5.05 percent, the European Banking Federation said. The Libor-OIS spread, a gauge of the scarcity of cash, advanced to a record. Rates in Asia also rose...

Credit markets have seized up, tipping lenders toward insolvency and forcing U.S. and European governments to rescue five banks in the past two days, including Dexia SA, the world's biggest lender to local governments, and Wachovia Corp. Money- market rates climbed even after the Federal Reserve yesterday more than doubled the size of its dollar-swap line with foreign central banks to $620 billion. Banks borrowed dollars from the ECB at almost six times the Fed's benchmark interest rate today."


I rest my case.


Thanks, I liked this article.
 
Let me guess... you are going to vote for this McCain and his irresponsible choice of VP, the person that has never visited any land outside of the US and Canada... because they are also republican?

Not piling on you specifically, but... oh well. Enough said. This is probably not the proper forum for this type of discussion.

It's probably not the best place for discussion, indeed...we have some EXCELLENT censorship going on here...

What amazes me most is that deleted texts are not even marked as deleted for knowledge of the person posting the message...time to evolve in your rules, MacRumors admins...transparency is ALWAYS a good thing.
 
sorry off-topic..

Can you explain to a European how that is exactly possible? Especially the second time round there must have been some indication that this guy has no idea of what's going on (and I mean that in the widest possible sense).

How can people look past these things? Especially with someone who has so much power in government as the president?

And in the situation now. How is it possible that people will vote for a potential vice-president who hasn't even got a passport until recently and "knows what foreign politics is" only by reading books?

Actually she knows a lot because she lives "close" to Russia...as for the archaic voting system in the US, it's based on State voting...

So if the majority in your State votes for one candidate, ALL the votes for other candidates are simply discarded in counting who wins an election...a wonderful display of fake democracy, if you ask me.
 
I sold short at $194 and covered thir morning at $101 :D gonna go out and celebrate later and i'll be upgrading to a macbook pro when the new revisions come out :cool:
Uh, no you didn't.

Your short option would've expired long ago, if you bought the option at $194.
 
Once the stock bounces back, hopefully to $180 or so, I intend to sell a couple hundred shares and diversify into non-tech stocks, and something that kicks out a nice dividend. I have two other stocks so far, but one is flagging and the other is just spinning its wheels in anticipation of a go ahead on one of its mines next year.

Diligence in having the press realize ideas about P/E ratios and other technical indicators not applying to Apple as Apple is a radically different company that defies convention will certainly help.
 
This is an odd time to downgrade Apple, since just two days ago, analysts were raving about how much cash Apple has (I think they said $21Billion cash) compared to other computer companies. Dell and HP are selling assets and cutting jobs, while Apple does not have to do any of that because they have a huge amount of cash. Add in the income from iPhone sales (which continue every day), iMacs, and the MILLIONS of iPods that will be sold this holiday season, and Apple is looking in pretty good shape! :)

(these junior analysts will be very regretful after Apple reports earnings in October)

Not really that odd, they are viewing the future economic situation and believe that with Apple offering a premium product, the credit markets ina big squeeze and the overall economic outlook looking poor they do not see Apple continuing with strong sales.

The recommendations they are providing are more for the investors who go through their organization. They can't post a rosey picture of Apples future sales when the market is not looking strong. Quite a few brokers got caught recommending stocks when in fact they knew the stock was no where near as good as they suggested, they were getting benefits in return for providing positive ratings on stocks that they had other interests in which were either not disclosed or not disclosed properly.

As stated many times, Apple itself is just fine, they have little to no debt and significant cash on hand, but that does not determine the stock price. Sitting on lots of cash and doing nothing is no different than sitting on no cash and making bad decisions as there is no value to the stock holders and thus the stock goes down. Apple's problem is that they sell what is viewed as premium products, this is especially true in the computer market, less so in the media player market. When the economy is poor people do not feel confident to make big purchases, they act conservative. That being said, a current Apple computer owner is highly likely to replace their current system with another Apple computer, BUT, if they are not in a position where they MUST upgrade (failed computer) they will hold off on making the purchase until things improve.

For people not necessarily tied to Apple products, do you buy the $500 PC replacement or the $1000 Apple? In good times the jump to the Apple isn't out of the question, in bad times it is hard to justify the price difference. If Apple had some products that were priced at say a $100-200 premium to the PC market then although people will give a lot of though to the price difference it is a more acceptable price jump in a conservative market.

As to the discussion about "but Apple offers a better product" or "but Apple's computers are priced much closer to the similar performance PCs", reality says that in this kind of a market, the cheaper product is more appealing as price is a more influential factor. There will be plenty of people buying Macs, just the potential market shrinks a bit.
 
AAPL will recover!

Cheer up. Investors, out of panic, are overreacting to all stocks instead of ones backed by fragile housing market. Even gains on September 30 are significant.
 

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