Apple Stops Signing iOS 13.7 After Releasing iOS 14, Downgrading No Longer Possible

[legatoboy]

wow that was fast. usually major updates remain open for a couple weeks

iphone 7 and iphone 7 plus camera and mic no longer usable with iOS 14.
and apple so quickly stop signing 13.7

i am sooo tired of complaining about and support just say nothing they can do. just keep the phone up to date.
that's exactly their last word.

 

[legatoboy]

I knew somebody who avoided ios10 like the plague. Did NOT want to lose Civ IV. I myself simply never bothered. My iPad is still on ios8.

you are so wise. i sometime never learn even i repeatedly made the way mistakes.

 

[legatoboy]

To those that have upgraded, what are your thoughts on iOS 14? I have the second gen SE on iOS 13.7. I have almost never done a major iOS upgrade on an iPhone in the year it is announced. Are there any features ditched in iOS 14? Any major bug issues?

iOS 14, iPhone 7 and iphone 7 plus. lost camera function. Some lost mic function also. just google that combination and you will see the issues.

although some complain that even iphone xs have some similar issues, what i have read and experienced are mostly iphone 7 and 7 plus

if you have iphone se, you may just want to wait for at least two to three dot releases before upgrade.

 

[legatoboy]

In corporate environment, upgrading software blindly is asking for trouble. I wish Apple had options to at least defer upgrades for a while.
Now with that new “auto download” toggle, let me see how it pans out.

You are right. in corporate environment, changes is a major thing and need long testing against all apps . try it for a bank. Some enterprise desktop management programs will lockdown each mac and not allow updates being done casually. But that's the same for any desktops in cops include windows.

 

[I7guy]

iOS 14, iPhone 7 and iphone 7 plus. lost camera function. Some lost mic function also. just google that combination and you will see the issues.

although some complain that even iphone xs have some similar issues, what i have read and experienced are mostly iphone 7 and 7 plus

if you have iphone se, you may just want to wait for at least two to three dot releases before upgrade.

Does any of this help?

iPhone camera not working after iOS 14 up… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

I have an xs max and frankly not experience much of any issues.

 

[legatoboy]

This is very bad : so many issues still to fix, but I guess someone didn't like
they only had 25% of people jumping in!

It seems like it's forced upgrade and post successful adoption number swiftly and show how much users like the upgrades. i turned off auto iOS update for my family members phone. my mom and boyfriend wouldn't know anything about iOS update and if automatic update is turned on (BY default with consensus ) , they just get it without knowing it.
[automerge]1600915114[/automerge]

I knew the bomb was going to drop in Sept. Glad I got my devices on 13.7. They'll be staying there until Spring

Happy for you.

 

[legatoboy]

From my experience 13.7 was really bad, quick battery drain, unexpected UI freezes, etc. on both iPhone and iPad.

14 was buttery smooth in comparison. So for those planning on staying on iOS 13, I hope you're on 13.6.x and not 13.7.

That make sense. May i ask where i can find detail tech notes on what's changed in each iOS dot releases?
thx

 

[I7guy]

It seems like it's forced upgrade and post successful adoption number swiftly and show how much users like the upgrades. i turned off auto iOS update for my family members phone. my mom and boyfriend wouldn't know anything about iOS update and if automatic update is turned on (BY default with consensus ) , they just get it without knowing it.
....

I think it’s hard to tell if these numbers are good or bad. The difference this year is there was no iPhone release hubris touting the hardware and software.

 

[unknown6656]

That's why I always save the SHSH2-blobs for all my devices when a new update comes out. With this method I could downgrade all the way back to iOS 7 if I want to...

 

[saudor]

That's why I always save the SHSH2-blobs for all my devices when a new update comes out. With this method I could downgrade all the way back to iOS 7 if I want to...

that method doesnt work with touchid/faceid devices if the latest signed SEP is not compatible. You could technically still downgrade but it goes into a boot loop. apple needs to seriously open it up more. People who downgrade using blobs generally know what they're getting into so why tighten things up so much

 

[ackmondual]

you are so wise. i sometime never learn even i repeatedly made the way mistakes.

And I thought he was being extreme! In my laziness to bother, I've been cut off from getting updates and certain new apps starting roughly last year. On the plus side, I'm still enjoying a few choice apps that never got updated.

 

[unitethenations]

That's why I always save the SHSH2-blobs for all my devices when a new update comes out. With this method I could downgrade all the way back to iOS 7 if I want to...

If I downgraded a month ago where would I find my blobs? Are they still stored on my computer?

 

[innn]

I use an older Iphone SE and 14.1 introduced for me very unwelcome changes. I can't arrange, sort add/remove widgets on that screen. There is a screentime widget there I can't get rid of it, there's one just black, like an empty placeholder. Nowhere can I find a setting to configure this.
For me it's always the changes any new version brings and if it kills battery or not.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

I know this is about iOS but something tells me those shiny new Apple Silicon Macs will suffer the same fate in the future. Once you upgrade to a new macOS, you will be cutoff from downgrading in the future after Apple stops signing the previous release.

 

[C DM]

I use an older Iphone SE and 14.1 introduced for me very unwelcome changes. I can't arrange, sort add/remove widgets on that screen. There is a screentime widget there I can't get rid of it, there's one just black, like an empty placeholder. Nowhere can I find a setting to configure this.
For me it's always the changes any new version brings and if it kills battery or not.

While you are on the Home Screen swipe right to access the Today View page with widgets, then scroll all the way down on that page to tap on the "Edit" button at the very bottom. Once you do that you should be in "wiggle" mode where you can move or delete new widgets (using the small '-' button on the top left of each one) or add new ones (using the '+' button at the top right).

 

[BaltimoreMediaBlog]

I'm not one to favor lawsuits, actually the exact opposite, but I think there should be a fair use lawsuit of this ban on downgrading to a previous OS if you have a problem. You bought the device. You own it. How can Apple make it impossible to downgrade legally?
THIS IS ONE LAWSUIT I HOPE ONE DAY HAPPENS!

 

[Apple_Robert]

I'm not one to favor lawsuits, actually the exact opposite, but I think there should be a fair use lawsuit of this ban on downgrading to a previous OS if you have a problem. You bought the device. You own it. How can Apple make it impossible to downgrade legally?
THIS IS ONE LAWSUIT I HOPE ONE DAY HAPPENS!

You own the device but, you don’t own the OS or the rights thereto through your purchase of the phone. The purchase of the phone entitles you to fair access and use of the OS as long as Apple makes it available for your model phone.

No one is forced to update their phone. And Apple is not legally obligated (nor should they be) to make any OS available to whomever decides they want to downgrade after the fact.

 

[russell_314]

You own the device but, you don’t own the OS or the rights thereto through your purchase of the phone. The purchase of the phone entitles you to fair access and use of the OS as long as Apple makes it available for your model phone.

No one is forced to update their phone. And Apple is not legally obligated (nor should they be) to make any OS available to whomever decides they want to downgrade after the fact.

Thank you!

 

[legatoboy]

I know this is about iOS but something tells me those shiny new Apple Silicon Macs will suffer the same fate in the future. Once you upgrade to a new macOS, you will be cutoff from downgrading in the future after Apple stops signing the previous release.

Of course. You get the power and hand cuffs also.

 

[waynebhayes]

I still think that stopping downgrading should be stopped. It cost me over 40 apps as Apple forced me away from IOS 10.
This is something there should be a lawsuit about.

I agree; It’s no longer just about inconvenience; with COVID there are hard consequences. I’m a professor. My university dictates that Zoom shall be used for remote lectures during COVID—no problem, I like Zoom. And Zoom worked *perfectly* last Spring on iPadOS 13.7. As soon as I upgraded to 14.X (any X), Zoom has been unstable. Lots of minor problems but the biggest killer is that screen sharing starts and then fails half a dozen times during lecture; furthermore, if I’m in another app (eg doing hand-written notes in GoodNotes, sharing my screen so the class can follow along), there’s no way for me to *see* that screen sharing has failed. My students have to unmute and tell me. Then it’s back to Zoom, restarting screen share, wait 5 seconds as Zoom counts down a warning (and during that time I can’t flip back to Goodnotes), then cross fingers and flip back to Goodnotes. It’s gotten so unstable and annoying that once I get into Goodnotes and the share has lasted longer than 5 seconds, I resolve to *stay* in Goodnotes for the rest of the lecture lest the share stops again.

It’s wasting *enormous* amounts of time. And it’s not just me. Professors all over my university, and presumably the country, are having this problem. So multiply my wanted 1-2 minutes by 1,000 classes per day (out of about 5,000) at my University and another 100, at least, for major universities across the country, and an average of 50-100 per student, and we’re talking about half a million “man-minutes” wasted per day—about 8,000 person-hours per day, or 4 person-years per day of wasted time.

All because ****ing Apple, for no good reason, won’t let me downgrade my iPad back to iOS 13.7.

I’m currently in discussions with my University’s attorneys about this. They’re a little hesitant to take on Apple legally, but I’ve told them that if they don’t do it by this coming Monday, I’ll approach some major firms in LA who are good a class action law suits. I’m sure somebody will take it on. There’s a mint to be made—but really all I want is for Apple to loosen their ****ing reigns on downgrading. Either that or pay every professor—and the students in their class—for the time being wasted due to Apple’s pin-headedness.

And don’t blame Zoom: their app worked fine on iPadOS 13, and they have plenty on their hands already with the whole world jumping on their platform.

- Wayne Hayes, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Computer Science, U.C. Irvine.

 

[Septembersrain]

I agree; It’s no longer just about inconvenience; with COVID there are hard consequences. I’m a professor. My university dictates that Zoom shall be used for remote lectures during COVID—no problem, I like Zoom. And Zoom worked *perfectly* last Spring on iPadOS 13.7. As soon as I upgraded to 14.X (any X), Zoom has been unstable. Lots of minor problems but the biggest killer is that screen sharing starts and then fails half a dozen times during lecture; furthermore, if I’m in another app (eg doing hand-written notes in GoodNotes, sharing my screen so the class can follow along), there’s no way for me to *see* that screen sharing has failed. My students have to unmute and tell me. Then it’s back to Zoom, restarting screen share, wait 5 seconds as Zoom counts down a warning (and during that time I can’t flip back to Goodnotes), then cross fingers and flip back to Goodnotes. It’s gotten so unstable and annoying that once I get into Goodnotes and the share has lasted longer than 5 seconds, I resolve to *stay* in Goodnotes for the rest of the lecture lest the share stops again.

It’s wasting *enormous* amounts of time. And it’s not just me. Professors all over my university, and presumably the country, are having this problem. So multiply my wanted 1-2 minutes by 1,000 classes per day (out of about 5,000) at my University and another 100, at least, for major universities across the country, and an average of 50-100 per student, and we’re talking about half a million “man-minutes” wasted per day—about 8,000 person-hours per day, or 4 person-years per day of wasted time.

All because ****ing Apple, for no good reason, won’t let me downgrade my iPad back to iOS 13.7.

I’m currently in discussions with my University’s attorneys about this. They’re a little hesitant to take on Apple legally, but I’ve told them that if they don’t do it by this coming Monday, I’ll approach some major firms in LA who are good a class action law suits. I’m sure somebody will take it on. There’s a mint to be made—but really all I want is for Apple to loosen their ****ing reigns on downgrading. Either that or pay every professor—and the students in their class—for the time being wasted due to Apple’s pin-headedness.

And don’t blame Zoom: their app worked fine on iPadOS 13, and they have plenty on their hands already with the whole world jumping on their platform.

- Wayne Hayes, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Computer Science, U.C. Irvine.

I'd think a class lawsuit would catch attention. Many people who have problems with an updated iOS can feel this pain. You end up with a device that can, at times, be barely usable for some after an update. I think you should be allowed to downgrade all the way to the original iOS that your device originally shipped with.

I say this as someone who is still on iOS 13.3. My 11 Pro Max runs flawlessly. If I were to need a battery replacement or another device, I'd be forced into the newest version and I'd have to accept any problems that came with it. That feels to me like I'm basically just renting this device from Apple.

 

[C DM]

And don’t blame Zoom: their app worked fine on iPadOS 13, and they have plenty on their hands already with the whole world jumping on their platform.

Does that mean that the same exact version of the app works differently under iPadOS 13 compared to iPadOS 14?

Has any sort of troubleshooting been done to see if anything helps? Reinstalling the app, resetting settings, perhaps restoring the device?

 

[I7guy]

I agree; It’s no longer just about inconvenience; with COVID there are hard consequences. I’m a professor. My university dictates that Zoom shall be used for remote lectures during COVID—no problem, I like Zoom. And Zoom worked *perfectly* last Spring on iPadOS 13.7. As soon as I upgraded to 14.X (any X), Zoom has been unstable. Lots of minor problems but the biggest killer is that screen sharing starts and then fails half a dozen times during lecture; furthermore, if I’m in another app (eg doing hand-written notes in GoodNotes, sharing my screen so the class can follow along), there’s no way for me to *see* that screen sharing has failed. My students have to unmute and tell me. Then it’s back to Zoom, restarting screen share, wait 5 seconds as Zoom counts down a warning (and during that time I can’t flip back to Goodnotes), then cross fingers and flip back to Goodnotes. It’s gotten so unstable and annoying that once I get into Goodnotes and the share has lasted longer than 5 seconds, I resolve to *stay* in Goodnotes for the rest of the lecture lest the share stops again.

It’s wasting *enormous* amounts of time. And it’s not just me. Professors all over my university, and presumably the country, are having this problem. So multiply my wanted 1-2 minutes by 1,000 classes per day (out of about 5,000) at my University and another 100, at least, for major universities across the country, and an average of 50-100 per student, and we’re talking about half a million “man-minutes” wasted per day—about 8,000 person-hours per day, or 4 person-years per day of wasted time.

All because ****ing Apple, for no good reason, won’t let me downgrade my iPad back to iOS 13.7.

I’m currently in discussions with my University’s attorneys about this. They’re a little hesitant to take on Apple legally, but I’ve told them that if they don’t do it by this coming Monday, I’ll approach some major firms in LA who are good a class action law suits. I’m sure somebody will take it on. There’s a mint to be made—but really all I want is for Apple to loosen their ****ing reigns on downgrading. Either that or pay every professor—and the students in their class—for the time being wasted due to Apple’s pin-headedness.

And don’t blame Zoom: their app worked fine on iPadOS 13, and they have plenty on their hands already with the whole world jumping on their platform.

- Wayne Hayes, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Computer Science, U.C. Irvine.

The other side of the coin is that ios 14 patched critical vulnerabilities from ios 13, so you pick your poison.

As for a lawsuit succeeding in a way that will get Apple to change it's ways, it's always worth a try. But using Microsoft as an example, if people could sue lost time relating to trouble-shooting Windows, would seem a class action lawsuit would bankrupt Microsoft. And yet, here we are today.