I think one thing everyone is missing here is that Apple and the accused shoplifter were under contract. Since he was using the Apple easy pay system and agreed to Apple's terms when he downloaded the app and got an Apple ID, he did nothing more then not pay up front for his agreed upon service from Apple. Because these types of misunderstandings can happen is exactly why this should be a civil matter and not a criminal matter. If the suspect continued to leave the store after being questioned by employees then the only thing I would say he did was violate his contract with Apple at which point they would have to take him to civil court. Think of it this way, if he did complete the transaction and gave Apple money for the headphones but the employees wouldn't give him the headphones because they didn't think he paid for them could he have the employee arrested for stealing his money? No, he would have to take Apple to small claims court. If you don't pay your contractor after he renovates your bathroom he can't have you arrested. All this kid did, legally, was violate the terms of his contract with Apple. This is just my opinion but I would love to hear what a lawyer thinks of this.
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Apple Store Customer Arrested for Shoplifting Says He Was Trying to Use EasyPay Self-Checkout
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Actually, if it was truly an accident, then that does often negate the intent element of a crime.
In your example, a killing which is truly an accident is either "Negligent Homicide" or "Involuntary Manslaughter". Both carry very light prison sentences, and often first time offenders don't go to prison.
How many people go to prison for accidentally killing someone? Intent is part of the judicial process. If someone accidentally killed someone else, that is very different than premeditated murder; the results of the two cases would be very different. Same as this case. If he intended to steal the headphones, that is one thing, if it's an accident, it's a whole different thing altogether.
Exactly.
Also as a former LP person, you can usually tell who is stealing something or looking to do so. They are looking around at employees, looking for security cameras, picking up something and then putting them down and doing it again. Anyone that stares at the same headphones for an hour and doesn't ask for help or questions is a little suspicious.
And yes those Bose and Beats headsets are always under watch at Apple Stores. Counted constantly through out the day...We only put one set of each out at a time for this reason. That is like the number one no no to take from an Apple store
The EasyPay system is basically the polar opposite of Guitar Centers or lumberyards where you have to submit your receipt when you exit, so an employee can verify that everything on the receipt matches the merchandise you are leaving the store with.
None of us know if this was just an honest mistake or an attempt at larceny, but Apple's system is tailor made for this type of "misunderstanding". Personally, I'll continue to find an employee.
None of us know if this was just an honest mistake or an attempt at larceny, but Apple's system is tailor made for this type of "misunderstanding". Personally, I'll continue to find an employee.
To accuse any individual of 'stealing', you need quite a bit of evidence and how is Apple so sure he had the intent of stealing? I see this happen ALL the time [Retail manager (not at Apple)] and I would just let the kid go, I personally don't think the kid had any intentions of stealing. I love Apple but i feel like with what Apple says always 'goes', but someone really needs to stick it to them, especially with what's going on here.
Keep in mind the question on almost EVERY job application is "Have you ever been arrested." This kid now has a "Yes" and if he had taken the plea bargain he would have a conviction as well. For lots of jobs a conviction for a criminal act puts you immediately in the No Pile. Yes, maybe you get out of the No Pile but probably not and not often in this economy. This is potentially a life changing moment for this kid and it might be scam or it might be for forgeting to press the last button in a process he has never used before. I press "print" at work all the time, then look back at my document later to see that all I've done is pull up the print selector and that I still need to press "OK" on. This seems like it could be very similar.
WOW i bet he wishes he just left the headphones and immediately left after getting confronted, instead of arguing with apple staff...before the police arrived
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I just had a thought, but what if it has to do with the geo-tagging and your Apple ID. The app knows when you are in what store, so it stands to reason Apple could monitor that in the back somewhere and see which IDs are processing transactions.
Not sure how they'd connect the apple ID to the customer, but that seems a logical start. I have to believe they have some form of tracking on those sales as opposed to a free for all - which would be why I've (and many people on here) have never seen anyone stopped, but this kid was AND arrested.
Not sure how they'd connect the apple ID to the customer, but that seems a logical start. I have to believe they have some form of tracking on those sales as opposed to a free for all - which would be why I've (and many people on here) have never seen anyone stopped, but this kid was AND arrested.
Because he walked out of a store with an item without paying? "I forgot to use my money" never has been an excuse. Ever.
Hopefully he gets some serious jail time for doing this. What a fool, thinking he could steal from Apple.
Its going to be interesting to watch this one play out.
Has anyone seen any similar situations? I'm sure this can't be the first.
Has anyone seen any similar situations? I'm sure this can't be the first.
Then its a crappy system. You have to prove intent for it to be theft (at least in most states I'm aware of, including NY). So, if you believe this position of mine is nonsense, take it up with Apple, not me. Because you legally can't do any better, and Apple will be wasting a lot of time and money fighting stupid cases like this. Maybe they figured this is still cheaper than paying for an extra couple employees?
NY law states:
S 155.05 Larceny; defined.
1. A person steals property and commits larceny when, with intent to
deprive another of property or to appropriate the same to himself or to
a third person, he wrongfully takes, obtains or withholds such property
from an owner thereof.
Anyway, point is, this is bad press for Apple.
The original statement was that Apple should let the kid go. My point is if you're proven guilty of a crime, regardless of intent, you will be punished some way. That's our judicial system and how it should be.
Yes, they do get punished because killing without intent is still a defined crime.
On the flip side, taking something which is not yours without intent to steal is not a crime (that I'm aware of), and it is certainly not the crime of larceny which is what he was charged with.
Common Law Larceny is:
* Trespass
* Taking
* Carrying Away or Asportation of Personal Property
* Of Another
* With the intent to steal
Not necessarily, it's really at the discretion of the judge at that point. Often times some people will get off with nothing. Again, your analogy is apples and oranges vs. this case. Are you seriously comparing a potential death of a person vs. a pair of headphones?
Basically, you're implying that a person who steals headphones should have a similar penalty to that of someone who murders another person.
If he's proven guilty of a crime, then he SHOULD be punished. But intent is the reasoning behind whether or not this is a crime. If he didn't intend to steal the headphones, it's not a crime. Simple as that. Our judicial system does take into account intent. That's what will separate a crime from an accident.
There's a REALLY Obvious solution to this:
When the Apple store employee stopped him from leaving the store, and he showed them the easy pay checkout screen, all they had to do was have him check out. When he paid, then he could go.
If there was some problem with checking out, then he could have paid cash and gone.
If he couldn't pay either way, then he could leave the headphones and go.
There was no reason for getting the police involved. In fact, even now, he should be able to pay apple, apple should deliver the headphones and drop the charges.
This story makes it sound like even Apple store employees in new york are *******s. (In my experience %80 of the *******s customers I've had were from new york, and %19 of them were from New Jersy, meaning between the two thats %99. But maybe I've just been unlucky.)
When the Apple store employee stopped him from leaving the store, and he showed them the easy pay checkout screen, all they had to do was have him check out. When he paid, then he could go.
If there was some problem with checking out, then he could have paid cash and gone.
If he couldn't pay either way, then he could leave the headphones and go.
There was no reason for getting the police involved. In fact, even now, he should be able to pay apple, apple should deliver the headphones and drop the charges.
This story makes it sound like even Apple store employees in new york are *******s. (In my experience %80 of the *******s customers I've had were from new york, and %19 of them were from New Jersy, meaning between the two thats %99. But maybe I've just been unlucky.)
