Apple Store in Maryland Makes History by Voting to Unionize

[Chevysales]

As long as they behave. If not then shut down the store. It’s simply just not worth the hass

You do realize, like, unions are a perfectly normal and common thing in the EU? And yet, somehow, I don't see that people's lives are worse here, whether you're a customer or a service provider.

BTW, maybe people *should* take breaks.

Thankfully we aren’t the EU.

 

[kesenwangs]

Lol…Apple can close down any store they want to

“Can” and “will” are two completely different things

 

[kesenwangs]

Well, there goes customer service.

"Hi, can you help me?"
"Sorry, I'm on break."

I always got the vibe walking into an Apple Store that most of them look like they’re on break anyways. Super confused as to who to strike up a question to lol

 

[jlc1978]

Wasnt there a better union to join than the "Machinists" union?

I'm no union expert especially not American ones, but isn't there some sort of retail workers union that could have better knowledge of retail store operations that could better represent Apple store workers?

It's a question of clout, ability to organize, and what they can offer, and what employees want in a union. Plus, IIRC, the machinists are a pretty big union that can impact Apple much more than a retail workers union. They also might be more effective in a nationwide unionization move.

More Apple stores may follow this. I wouldn’t be surprised but this seems like a bad move. Since Apple can easily close down this store and move its location. Thus, not having to deal with a union.

A lot would depend on the collective bargaining agreement and state law. I suspect it will be easier and less costly to deal with what the employees unionized for, rather than try to move and reopen a store. In addition, unions are likely to picket Apple stores, with the resultant bad press. Picketing a store construction site could delay construction as union members don't cross the line.

Unionization makes little sense for retail employees. These are high turnover entry-level positions.

Not necessarily. Apple touts the ability to move up in recruiting, and I know long term Apple retail employees who stay because they like their overall benefits.

Grocery stores in my state are union. I used to work in them during college and a few years after. While there was high turnover, there were people who made it a career. I was part of a meat cutters union , even though I worked in deli and seafood. I didn't appreciate it at the time, but as a part time worker I was actually eligible for no cost health insurance. It was a pretty decent plan too. They still have the same no employee cost plan today.

In another store I watched the union get a co-workers job back. They fired him after he couldn't show up for work because his kid was in the hospital! Insane stuff. That store was a nightmare.

That's just it - there are good and bad sides to unionization; and a lot depends on their members. When I worked in the power industry a lot of workers came from the union hall and their benefits were through the union; so the could work 6 weeks on our site welding and then some place different when that was done.

I worked with a lot of unions early on - Teamsters, IBEW, Steelworkers and if you respect them they'll respect you. As in life, treat them like you want to be treated and you won't have a problem with them but a friend who can help you when needed.

With quite a lot of recent union drives in the US, it's been a matter of joining unions that do a better job of representing people, not necessarily joining a particular trade, from the standpoint of the employees, and keeping numbers up from the standpoint of the unions following the massive downsizing and off-shoring between about 2001 and 2010. Aside from the union here, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (which in British terms primarily represents fitters, mechanics, metal fabricators and so on in the airline, aircraft manufacturing, shipbuilding, railroad and other generally heavy industries), the United Steelworkers also has had a reputation for being effective, and they've also organized some places you wouldn't expect -- for example nurses and orderlies at previously non-union hospitals -- and absorbed some smaller unions that aren't in the steel industry, notably two major Canadian unions in the forestry and chemical industries.

Very true. Flight attendants, for example can be Association of Flight Attendants (AFA-CWA) at some airlines and Teamsters at others. The AFA-CWA is part of the Communications Workers of America, which is AFL-CIO. It's all about numbers which bring clout.

 

[vipergts2207]

Cool. So now all the current lazy employees who piss & moan about not being able to make a living on minimum wage (something minimum wage was never intended for) can be even lazier, Apple can't fire them, customer service will head to toilet and prices for Apple goods/services will be even more artifically inflated thanks to these bozos.

Well done.

Meanwhile back in reality, FDR who signed the FSLA said this about the minimum wage:

“In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By business I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.”

 

[Orange Bat]

“”

 

[lovehateapple]

More Apple stores may follow this. I wouldn’t be surprised but this seems like a bad move. Since Apple can easily close down this store and move its location. Thus, not having to deal with a union.

I agree with you completely. Even if Apple doesn't close down that store or others, the unionization movement will discourage or prevent Apple from opening other / more stores where there are unions.

 

[urnotl33t]

The machinists are abroad because American companies focus on cheap over everything. Now it is those foreign manufacturers gaining all the manufacturing experience. Over time this increasing their capabilities and increases their quality (after all does anyone complain about the quality of Chinese made Apple computers) and increases the buying power of their local employees.
Meanwhile, in the US, manufacturing facilities close, employees are lost, manufacturing experience and knowledge fades away. Fewer people can actually afford the stuff that now has to be imported. Way to go!

Nothing you said is untrue. I don't disagree on any particular point, nor even your overall sentiment. I would like to continue your line of thought and extrapolate further.

Do/does the typical manufacturing worker really truly *want* to do the heavy work with the heavy toll it takes? What if, just maybe, they could have an opportunity to choose their own course? What if there was a circumstance where they can have a genuine strings-free option of:

A) the manufacturing job (which indeed likely is "all they know" because of their local community/family/historical experience; "my dad did this work and so must I, it's all I know"), OR...
B) a chance to specialize.. perhaps be the one to design and build the very manufacturing equipment itself.

Yes this is over-simplifying and somewhat reductive, but it brings forward something that wasn't widely available previously.

The threats of automation are upon us.. robots will take over the repetitive and easily-automated tasks. This has happened since Ford's assembly line methodology. Yes, being a heavy-equipment operator is important. Those folks build bridges and all of Manhattan. However, who builds and designs the heavy equipment in the first place? Robots can't design.

Instead of being on the "output" end, what if the worker could instead be on the "input" end?

Not everyone can be a machine designer, true. Many folks have an array of untapped potential. It just needs a chance to emerge... that's all.. a chance. It's within that brief moment, where the worker can decide between the two paths, because there is now a second path where one didn't exist (or didn't exist widely).

That's the core seed of "offshore manufacturing". If that term is unsavory, then replace it with a scenario you use every day:

* Wash your clothes by hand in a bucket every morning?, or
* toss them into a machine once a week so that robot does the work while we jabber on MR on Sunday mornings?

"But the machine was a manufacturing job in America!" True. However, it's a repetitive task that stamps out identical results in a given cycle. Back it up.. it had to first be designed and invented. Then the tooling equipment had to be made. THAT is where the real opportunity emerges.

"I yield back the remainder of my time."

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Did someone ask the employees of that store why they decided to unionise ? Was there any specific reason ? Or is it just an evolution in mentality ?

Collective bargaining?

 

[ZipZilla]

The worst airlines are the ones with unionized flight attendants. This will not end well for the customers.

 

[now i see it]

Next up: Strikes

 

[Sophisticatednut]

When did selling iPhones become a career that required a union? Even the AppleCare techs are a joke. When I worked at the store we did real repair work, now they just depot it out or replace the device. Unions are a relic from the past when jobs were actually dangerous and people were being exploited. Thy still have utility in certain industries, but How does that apply to the Apple Store?

Many years ago I worked as a projectionist, local 182 was the union. I was not in it. They were the laziest and most unskilled operators I met (for the most part). One of the newer non-union theatres had a bunch of morons working for it that got that theatre unionized (the union was desperate and the idiot employees thought it would given power) which eventually resulted in a regional 2 year lockout a few months later. In the end they all lost their careers and were reduced to an embarrassing state. I imagine something similar is eventually going to happen here.

Sounds like the employee signed the wrong workers way before unions came on the scene

 

[Attirex]

OK, boys, grab yer billy clubs, Model A Fords and big clunky leather shoes...time to bust up some stills and unions!

 

[lovehateapple]

Don't see how the "Maryland Apple Store" can vote to Unionize as it's only the present employees that have voted to do so and not the store itˈself.

It depends on whether or not Maryland is a "right to work" state. If Maryland is not a right to work state, union membership could become mandatory for all apple store employees even the ones who voted against unionization. I'm not sure what the law is in Maryland.

 

[Edsel]

At the end of the day, what matters most are the monthly Union dues and the additional benefits the Apple employees may, or may not, get. Oftentimes, it is the Union executives who benefit the most from a unionization drive.

 

[tny]

Come Monday they’ll all be fired and replaced by the waiting list of those who want to be Apple employees.

Didn’t realize the working conditions were horrible? These people don’t even have to work overnights or behind a hot stove or in a mine or something similar. They sell electronics at a beautiful store.

And then the NLRB will slap the store down so hard you'll hear echos of the sound on the moon.

What's with all the people rooting for the corporation? The corporation doesn't care about you -- in the end of the day, they have to do what's in the best interest of stockholders, not employees.

 

[tny]

Apple should automate the whole store. It’s time for apple to revisit their retail business model and make some needed strategic upgrades and changes.

What do you do for a living? Do you want a corporation to automate away your livelihood?

My job isn't going away without GAI. Is yours?

 

[lindros2]

The irony being that Unions are on the rise in China and manufacturing has started to shift further South, or even to Africa.

China is communist. People don't own anything. The "unions" are very, very different from our unions.
They're just a facade to deflect from the 996 work system (996工作制) and worker barracks.

 

[aevan]

Thankfully we aren’t the EU.

I don't know what to tell you, then enjoy not having breaks at work.

 

[Chevysales]

I don't know what to tell you, then enjoy not having breaks at work.

I can assure you a union has no bearing on my breaks. But thanks for caring from outside the USA.

 

[lovehateapple]

The worst airlines are the ones with unionized flight attendants. This will not end well for the customers.

It's not going to end well for the employees either, as it will result in fewer jobs as well.

 

[philosopherdog]

Definitely not impressed by Apple’s attempts to union bust. We expect this from the likes of Amazon but Apple should either be a good enough employer to naturally discourage unionism or at least not interfere in efforts to organize. Shame on Apple.

 

[jlc1978]

First thing they will do is negotiate for better working conditions. Like a right to work from home like the corporate employees can. When they don't get that, they will, of course, go on strike for better working conditions. Lots of scabs who will want to work for Apple and cross the picket lines.

Being a scab is generally not a good idea. Once the union and company settle you are out of a job and may find it difficult get hired again any place a union member who's line you crossed works; and if you do likely to have Avery lonely work experience. Word can travel quickly.

It depends on whether or not Maryland is a "right to work" state. If Maryland is not a right to work state, union membership could become mandatory for all apple store employees even the ones who voted against unionization. I'm not sure what the law is in Maryland.

Maryland is not.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I don’t foresee this being an action that Apple would take, and unions usually spread like wildfire. Apple isn’t about to close out all its stores to prevent unionizations. They tried to talk employees out of it and they still voted to unionize. Closing store after store doesn’t seem likely.

I have never understood why you would want to talk people out of unionizing. People are till free to work without being a union member. And people wouldn’t unionize unless they had benefits from it

 

[lindros2]

Being a scab is generally not a good idea. Once the union and company settle you are out of a job and may find it difficult get hired again any place a union member who's line you crossed works; and if you do likely to have A very lonely work experience. Word can travel quickly.

Except.. unions are rare in high tech.
I can't think of a single current/recent union member co-worker.
Google? Nope. Apple Retail? this thread - one store. Microsoft? nope. IBM? not any more. The list goes on, dude - unions are very, very specific to industries and skew very much blue collar.
And if you hate unions, are willing to cross lines (I am) - why would you care about unions?