Apple Stores Pulling Non-Universal Binaries?

[kenaustus]

I have a feeling that Adobe is working very hard to get the Universal version out. I also believe that there is some very old code and functions involved - some probably going back to v 1.0 - and it is going to be a huge task for them. The benefit is that everything will have to be looked at and updated - providing the potential that the new products will be far better than the older ones. Lots of pressure on Adobe to get that taken care of.

Since I can't go Mactel until VPC 8.0 is released for it (I have to demo one Win only app to prospects) I'll need to be happy with PPC software. Not a problem as there is a ton at the Made4Mac section of Apple's site and almost 14,700 OS X apps listed at http://osx.hyperjeff.net/Apps/

What else do I need?

 

[milo]

...I thnk it is wrong and pulling Adobe off the shelf will do Apple more damage than Adobe...

Read the article. They're not pulling adobe or Office.

Personally I feel a bit cheesed off at this moment because I paid for DVDSP3 and there was/is no upgrade path and if I move to an Intel Mac I have to dump the programme. It is slow enough as it is without making it worse by running it in Rosetta.

There certainly is an upgrade, you just have to upgrade DVDSP3 to 4 first (there are still some around, but they are getting more scarce). You're looking at about 400 bones to go to the latest universal version of the full FC studio, not too bad.

 

[BornAgainMac]

This is really good news. In some ways it also sends a message to Adobe and Microsoft that they are slacking. They will still have stuff in the store but it will look dated compared to everything else.

 

[Twenty1]

I really disagree with most of you. This is absolutely ridiculous from Apple. First they state they will support the PPC platform for the next years, now stop selling 'PPC only' software?
If that happens, it will be the last time I bought software from Apple. There are enough alternatives where to buy the stuff these days. There is really nothing hard to build multiple departments within their store, one for universal software, one for PPC software and if they like an 'Intel' only one.
And no, it does not confuse consumers when you mark it clearly!

Having worked some retail in the past, consumers can often become intimidated by technology. To the average consumer, especially someone who is new to Mac, they don't know the difference between PowerPC apps and Universal apps. (Why do you think Dell makes so much money? They play off of consumers ignorance by selling them sub par machines.)

It's very similiar to when Apple transitioned from OS 9 to OS X. New consumers would become very frustrated when they realized they purchased an app that runs only in classic mode. In many of those cases, the software manufacturer did not clearly state if it would run in classic. The manufacturer would say that it runs in OS X, but then neglect to say that it runs in classic mode within OS X. So yes, it runs in X, but in classic - it just depends on your perspective.

Obviously the software manufacturer has an obligation to clearly state product specs. However, the consumer isn't going to go back to the Apple Store and say, "The software company sold me software that doesn't run well on my machine." The upset consumer will be ticked off at Apple, not the software company, for selling them something that doesn't work well.

Also, unless I'm completely wrong, universal apps run on BOTH PowerPC and Intel (hence the name "universal"). If you have an existing PowerPC, your universal software runs just as well. Plus, if you upgrade to a new Intel Mac in the upcoming years, your existing universal software still works on your new machine.

Apple will continue to support PowerPC in the future, but that doesn't mean they're going to make or actively promote PowerPC computers or software. I would assume that OS 10.5 would be both PowerPC and Intel and also any new iLife or iWork apps. After that, I wouldn't count on 10.6 or beyond for PowerPC. Just as with OS 9, at some point you have to nail the coffin shut (to borrow a metaphor from Jobs.)

 

[ImAlwaysRight]

I really disagree with most of you. This is absolutely ridiculous from Apple. First they state they will support the PPC platform for the next years, now stop selling 'PPC only' software?

One thing to note in this is that this won't take place until July. I sense all Macs will be Intel by then, including the Power Mac.

Also, it is not that all PPC software is going to be completely unavailable. Software titles you nor I would not buy (hence, "poor sales performance software") is what is going to be pulled. The Apple Store does not carry every available title anyway. I doubt you will miss anything they pull. And, if by some slight chance, you go looking for Virtual Underwater Basket Weaving for PPC and it is not in your local Apple Store, you will still be able to get it at Amazon, MacMall, MacConnection, etc. This is such a common sense move on Apple's part it is crazy for anyone to object over this. What other alternative is there for Apple?!? There is only so much space on the shelf, folks.

 

[2ndPath]

Apple ought to pull all Adobe products NOW. And make it impossilbe to run the old crap on intel macs
Then Adobe will have to stop piddling around

That would be really a great move on Apple's side. People dependent on applications like photoshop or office are told: You can buy one of our obsolete PPC Macs or if you really want to use Photoshop on a fast machine, go and buy a Dell and use Windows.

And other people not needing the geatest performance would just postpone an upgrade of their hardware and thus reducing profits for apple and slowing down the intel transition.

 

[chukronos]

I think it needs to be done. There is time for developers, it isn't happening tomorrow. This also tells me that the switch to intel should be complete by July. I am sure many already anticipated that, but you can never be too sure.
-Chuck

 

[i.Feature]

Also, it is not that all PPC software is going to be completely unavailable. Software titles you nor I would not buy (hence, "poor sales performance software") is what is going to be pulled. The Apple Store does not carry every available title anyway. I doubt you will miss anything they pull. And, if by some slight chance, you go looking for Virtual Underwater Basket Weaving for PPC and it is not in your local Apple Store, you will still be able to get it at Amazon, MacMall, MacConnection, etc. This is such a common sense move on Apple's part it is crazy for anyone to object over this. What other alternative is there for Apple?!? There is only so much space on the shelf, folks.

Exactly. This isn't about Apple not supporting the PPC platform. This is about Apple making sure their Retail Stores just work.

 

[hscottm]

I dont like the "We'll make exceptions for MS and Adobe".

I am fine with them pulling under-performing software (which may in fact correlate highly with non-universal titles by summer), but to do it in 2 steps isnt fair ("oops, cant pull that one, MS makes it and we have to remind people that MS still makes Office for mac").

As mentioned above, most games wont be made universal. To pull some PPC games but leave MS and Adobe up just smells bad.

What about all of the companies who have supported OSX for a long time that arent MS and Adbobe? Or are too small to be able to afford the resources to convert? You're screwing some of your most loyal developers.

 

[mox358]

Its All About The First Impression

People hear all the time how simple Macs are, how they "just work" and aren't shackled with lots of the problems that Windows machines are. If my grandma goes into an Apple Store to buy a new Mac, and starts looking for software there is NO WAY in hell she's gonna know what Universal Binary and PPC only mean. Apple is simplifying things for people like my grandma. These are the switchers, and the first impression counts for everything. Having some Apple store salesperson trying to explain Universal binaries to a potential switcher is the last thing Apple wants. They just want you to be able to take your shiny new Mac over to the software section and pick out anything they have, knowing it will run natively. People like us will always find a way to get the software we want, be it PPC or Intel. But alot of switchers put their faith in the Apple Stores. It's all about reputation, simplicity, and like I said giving switchers a great first experience, not confusing them with now their software is made.

 

[raster]

That would be really a great move on Apple's side. People dependent on applications like photoshop or office are told: You can buy one of our obsolete PPC Macs or if you really want to use Photoshop on a fast machine, go and buy a Dell and use Windows.

And other people not needing the geatest performance would just postpone an upgrade of their hardware and thus reducing profits for apple and slowing down the intel transition.

I have PPC, I have CS2.
What I was saying was - to make CS2 not work on Intel macs.
CS2 is ppc native, it still works on the pro mac models that they are selling.
Do creative professionals who use Photoshop professionally really work on PC's. (I think some in large old school press houses) but I mean modern people... And I do not see Creative professionals switching to PC's because they can't get photoshop for 9 months. (a lot still use photoshop 6 or 7)

If people held off on buying PPC photoshop - Adobe would speed up.
And I do not think it's easy overnight change.
But we did hear about the intel switch some time ago.

 

[Eric5h5]

Also, it is not that all PPC software is going to be completely unavailable. Software titles you nor I would not buy (hence, "poor sales performance software") is what is going to be pulled. The Apple Store does not carry every available title anyway. I doubt you will miss anything they pull. And, if by some slight chance, you go looking for Virtual Underwater Basket Weaving for PPC and it is not in your local Apple Store, you will still be able to get it at Amazon, MacMall, MacConnection, etc. This is such a common sense move on Apple's part it is crazy for anyone to object over this. What other alternative is there for Apple?!? There is only so much space on the shelf, folks.

You're not quite getting it. Universal Binaries are...universal. They work on PPC and x86. Hence, "universal". This WOULD BE a profoundly stupid move even if they somehow manage to get Intel Power Macs out by July--if it actually meant pulling PPC software. But it doesn't.

However, I haven't seen anyone point out that this move is basically an admission by Apple that Rosetta isn't as great as all that and x86 isn't as fast as all that.

Oh, and let's knock it off with the "slacking"...some apps are trivial to make UBs, but many require a huge amount of work. When Apple moves up its transition to x86 by 6 months, what do you think is going to happen?

--Eric

 

[milo]

As mentioned above, most games wont be made universal.

I don't know about that. There are a few shipping already, with more announced in the near future.

 

[netmonkey]

This is really good news. In some ways it also sends a message to Adobe and Microsoft that they are slacking. They will still have stuff in the store but it will look dated compared to everything else.

Microsoft and Adobe products should be put in the "oldies" section next to some old records.

 

[mikeray]

This will just ensure that the lagging developers will quickly get their software universal. After all, I don't see why it's taking them so long -- I thought Steve said it's just 2 lines of code and you can change it in 5 minutes blindfolded with over mittens on.

Fishes,
narco.

yeah, but that is only if you used apple's own developement environement to create your application. otherwise, it is a lot more work. think low-level programming...it's so ugly.

 

[tk421]

Having worked some retail in the past, consumers can often become intimidated by technology. To the average consumer, especially someone who is new to Mac, they don't know the difference between PowerPC apps and Universal apps. (Why do you think Dell makes so much money? They play off of consumers ignorance by selling them sub par machines.)

It's very similiar to when Apple transitioned from OS 9 to OS X. New consumers would become very frustrated when they realized they purchased an app that runs only in classic mode. In many of those cases, the software manufacturer did not clearly state if it would run in classic. The manufacturer would say that it runs in OS X, but then neglect to say that it runs in classic mode within OS X. So yes, it runs in X, but in classic - it just depends on your perspective.

Good point. That is very true. But I do think it's good that they retain Adobe and Microsoft products because they are so widely used.

 

[iBunny]

I know most of you think apple is a company formed by God her self, however....

They wont be supporting PPC that much longer. Who cares if some of us or most of you have old G4s and stuff... too bad, go buy a new Intel Mac then.... thats not comming from me, but thats buisness at its best. They want to make money. They want you to fork out 2000$ for a new intel box...

I am telling it straight like a buisness man.

PPC will be supported only up until the end of the year... Im sure 10.5 will be UB so PPC users like G5s can use it, but thats it... thats the last OS to have support for it... im sure. I know alot of you are going to disagree with me... but what better way to make money? If I make my software not work on your computer, you are forced to buy a new computer.

It would be my goal anyway. Beleive me, apple is not different. Just becasue Jobs cares about its users more than gates, dosent mean hes not in on it for the Money.

 

[destroyboredom]

While this makes perfect sense, I think you also need to remember that OS X has been pretty much 'Universal' since it's inception, with Apple developing for PPC and Intel (as Plan B) since the beginning. I'm not so sure they would hault developement on the OS and core Apps (ilife suite) for the PPC platform so quickly, especially since newer revisions would just be building on what is already there.

OS XI (11) or other completely new applications might be a different story.

I know most of you think apple is a company formed by God her self, however....

They wont be supporting PPC that much longer. Who cares if some of us or most of you have old G4s and stuff... too bad, go buy a new Intel Mac then.... thats not comming from me, but thats buisness at its best. They want to make money. They want you to fork out 2000$ for a new intel box...

I am telling it straight like a buisness man.

PPC will be supported only up until the end of the year... Im sure 10.5 will be UB so PPC users like G5s can use it, but thats it... thats the last OS to have support for it... im sure. I know alot of you are going to disagree with me... but what better way to make money? If I make my software not work on your computer, you are forced to buy a new computer.

It would be my goal anyway. Beleive me, apple is not different. Just becasue Jobs cares about its users more than gates, dosent mean hes not in on it for the Money.

 

[VIREBEL661]

I really disagree with most of you. This is absolutely ridiculous from Apple. First they state they will support the PPC platform for the next years, now stop selling 'PPC only' software?
If that happens, it will be the last time I bought software from Apple. There are enough alternatives where to buy the stuff these days. There is really nothing hard to build multiple departments within their store, one for universal software, one for PPC software and if they like an 'Intel' only one.
And no, it does not confuse consumers when you mark it clearly!

I'm with you. I'm not sure how to take this news. I actually may be purchasing one of the last PPC Macs just to have Classic support (believe it or not - I still need this) - I also need VirtualPC NOW - I use it evrey day, so I can't wait... Not really impressed with the MacBooks - it would be really cool if they had the same bells and whistles of the last G4 Powerbooks - built in modem (faxing for me), and also the faster DVD burner... I dunno - we'll see how this all shakes out I guess...

 

[2ndPath]

I have PPC, I have CS2.
What I was saying was - to make CS2 not work on Intel macs.
CS2 is ppc native, it still works on the pro mac models that they are selling.
Do creative professionals who use Photoshop professionally really work on PC's. (I think some in large old school press houses) but I mean modern people... And I do not see Creative professionals switching to PC's because they can't get photoshop for 9 months. (a lot still use photoshop 6 or 7)

If people held off on buying PPC photoshop - Adobe would speed up.
And I do not think it's easy overnight change.
But we did hear about the intel switch some time ago.

While I agree, that there might be a positive effect on the speed of Adobe making CS2 univerals, I think the negative effects of preventing CS2 to work on Intel Macs would by far outweigh that.

Apple will probably finish switching to Intel before a universal version of CS will be released. At that point you couldn't even buy a Mac, which runs the current version of CS2. And there are people now using CS2 on intel Macs (I, for example, use Illustrator CS2 on a MacBook Pro). If Apple broke the support for running it, it might increase the pressure on Adobe, but for the user the company to blame would be Apple in the first place. I don't know, what the legal implications in that case might be, but Adobe is in a good negotiation position by have a kill application with Photoshop, for which there is no competition on the Mac.

I for my part certainly would prefer to have a unversial version of Illustrator for my MacBook, but still prefer having an emulated PPC version instead of none at all.

 

[Keebler]

boy oh boy

I'm quite surprise by this, if it's true. There are tons of us still using PPC software. I was lead to believe that apple would continue to support PPC for an extended period of time. I understand that they would want to make a clean 'break' from the PPC world to solidify their processes around Intel-Mac, but this would be screwing a ton of PPC people. Also, would they not be screwing themselves in the very near future as who in God's name would buy a PPC mac with this announcement? They'd really have to drop the price on their current PPC models for me to bite.

i understand the need to stop selling low sales product..that's just smart business for any company.

stopping support of PPC in a short period of time would be something like microsoft would do.

i guess the only positive idea from this would be the earlier-than-later launch of Power-IntelMacs?

 

[usclaneyj]

as long as Apple and its contributors continue to make universal binary applications, the power pc will have software to run.


they aren't abandoning it. they are simply including its sibling.

 

[milo]

I'm quite surprise by this, if it's true. There are tons of us still using PPC software. I was lead to believe that apple would continue to support PPC for an extended period of time.

This isn't dropping support for PPC. Universal binaries run on BOTH chipsets.

 

[Azmordean]

I too wish Apple would go ahead and pull ALL products that are not universal - INCLUDING Microsoft and Adobe products. I have the distinct feeling that, if they wanted to, MS and Adobe could release crossgrades in a matter of weeks. I am convinced they know most people don't NEED the latest and greatest version of Photoshop and Office (for example, on PC, many people still use Office 97 and have no troubles with it).

Their thought process is, how can we force people to pay our ridiculously high new version upgrade prices when they don't need the features?

OF COURSE! Insure the current version runs like a slow dog in comparison. Having to upgrade for what should be a $20 crossgrade option is downright ludicrous in my opinion.

I know I personally will be seeking viable alternatives to MS Office if and when I purchase an intel mac.

 

[destroyboredom]

It's really not as bad as some of you make it out to be. Unless you buy your software from a retail Apple store, you have nothing to worry about. Even if you do, what software will you be buying outside of MS and Adobe that won't be univeral by the time the change happens?