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Apple Stores Pulling Non-Universal Binaries?
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Keebler said:
The original message said, they are pulling PPC only software from the Apple Store. There is nothing said about running PPC software on intel Macs, which will hopefully be possible for a long time.
And about Microsoft: For supporting older software they are actually really good: Some applications written for windows 3.1 and even some for DOS can still be run on current Windows versions, while with the new Intel Macs everything pre-OSX won't work any more.
jahutch said:
I fail to see your point. If you mean to say that users DON'T need the latest and greatest, then there's no reason not to buy CS2 for PPC and run it with rosetta. If you are saying that people DO need the latest and greatest, then isn't it in those people's best interests to wait until Adobe can come out with a fully optimized version and not waste resources on converting CS2 into a half-baked semi-update?
Umm... I don't think you are getting it. The point of what I wrote is that just because Apple isn't selling a PPC (only) software title in your local Apple Store doesn't mean you can't get the software title somewhere else. I always order from Amazon anyway ... free shipping and lower prices.Eric5h5 said:
Here's the quote from TS: sources have learned that Apple is currently planning to pull all software from store shelves in July that isn't available in Universal Binary format. The policy is presumably designed to improve customer experience with new Intel-based Macs, as native Universal Binaries perform considerably better than PowerPC software running under Rosetta on Apple's newest systems.
It only makes sense for an Apple Store to only sell Intel/PPC universal apps when they are only selling Intel processor Macs (after July).
Another well thought out Apple move. NOT!
So Apple wants to inconvience 99.9% of it's current customer base so that .1% won't pick the wrong software.
Boy I bet the software developers are shaking in their boots! Apple has 3 intel based machines, which hit the market a little over a month ago. Think of the lost sales of universal binary software!
Now current PPC users might as well not even go to the Apple stores. I guess they'll just have to buy the software they want somewhere else and Apple store loses the business. Brilliant, Steve!
Hasn't Apple heard about moving shelves to specific areas of the store, so that PPC machines are grouped with PPC software and intel machines are grouped with intel software.
Of course new Mac users must be too stupid to read labels or stickers. Geezsh. Just how dumb does Apple think we users are. No wonder their stock has been tanking for the last few months.
So Apple wants to inconvience 99.9% of it's current customer base so that .1% won't pick the wrong software.
Boy I bet the software developers are shaking in their boots! Apple has 3 intel based machines, which hit the market a little over a month ago. Think of the lost sales of universal binary software!
Now current PPC users might as well not even go to the Apple stores. I guess they'll just have to buy the software they want somewhere else and Apple store loses the business. Brilliant, Steve!
Hasn't Apple heard about moving shelves to specific areas of the store, so that PPC machines are grouped with PPC software and intel machines are grouped with intel software.
Of course new Mac users must be too stupid to read labels or stickers. Geezsh. Just how dumb does Apple think we users are. No wonder their stock has been tanking for the last few months.
Thinking about the stores themselves, I have no doubt that Apple can make gobs more money using shelf space for high-margin iPod accessories than for third party software.
However, they need to remember that some prospective switchers are likely concerned about the myth that there's "no software" out for Mac. Shelves and shelves full of Mac software are definitely a good thing for a possible Mac purchaser to see, and I hope that the software section does not diminish too much
.
However, they need to remember that some prospective switchers are likely concerned about the myth that there's "no software" out for Mac. Shelves and shelves full of Mac software are definitely a good thing for a possible Mac purchaser to see, and I hope that the software section does not diminish too much
.
No, it didn't. The original message said they are pulling PPC-only apps that DON'T SELL. If a PPC-only app sells well, I expect it will continue to be available, based on this statement.2ndPath said:
LOL, no kidding! Thedestroyboredom said:
confusion and wrong assumptions from this TS report shows what a smart move it is for Apple to pull the PPC only software in favor of Universal Binaries when they are only selling Intel Macs.EDIT: If you do not understand my statement above or are not quite sure what the Apple store is doing when with PowerPC software, my advice to you is to go read the original source, the ThinkSecret article, 3 times, and if you still don't get it, then stop reading this thread and move on to the next rumor.
DougTheImpaler said:
No, it says that Apple will be pulling poor sales performance apps and beyond that, it will also be pulling all non-universal binary applications after July. The only exceptions were Adobe & Microsoft.
digitalbiker said:So Apple wants to inconvience 99.9% of it's current customer base so that .1% won't pick the wrong software.
Boy I bet the software developers are shaking in their boots! Apple has 3 intel based machines, which hit the market a little over a month ago. Think of the lost sales of universal binary software!
Now current PPC users might as well not even go to the Apple stores. I guess they'll just have to buy the software they want somewhere else and Apple store loses the business. Brilliant, Steve!
Hasn't Apple heard about moving shelves to specific areas of the store, so that PPC machines are grouped with PPC software and intel machines are grouped with intel software.
Of course new Mac users must be too stupid to read labels or stickers. Geezsh. Just how dumb does Apple think we users are. No wonder their stock has been tanking for the last few months.
1 Since they'll be stocking *universal* versions, they won't be inconveniencing anyone. So PPC users still have plenty of reason to go to Apple stores, they can still run every last piece of software on the shelves.
2 In fact, the average person doesn't understand the whole concept of universal binaries. Even with a sticker, people don't realize that some apps may not run and some may run slow. How dumb does apple think we are? Considering that it sounds from your post that you don't understand how UB's work...I'd say they have the right idea.
DougTheImpaler said:
That's not what the article says.
"Further, sources have learned that Apple is currently planning to pull all software from store shelves in July that isn't available in Universal Binary format."
milo said:
OK, so you can start with the insults if you want but I won't follow you there. Of course I know what Universal Binaries are, and yes I know that they will run on a PPC machine.
But the inconvience I was talking about is all the other software that will be missing from the store.
Like Maya, most all of the existing games, VectorWorks, etc. etc. I can't even list them all but there are many more titles that are PPC only than are Universal Binary.
In addition for a PPC user a universal binary is unneccessary. It is just a bunch more bloated code that I don't need taking up space on my harddrive.
I know that this sounds radical. But I really think it is to everyones advantage if Apple made it impossible to run ppc Photoshop under rosetta emulation.
First: it doesn't look good for Apple or Adobe to emulate Photoshop on an intel mac.
Second: CS2 runs fine on ppc and will continue to until Adobe comes out with CS3 that is Universal Binary. I am not saying that Adobe shouldn't support ppc machines, I'm saying Apple shouldn't suppoet Photoshop under emulation.
This way it would make Adobe move a little faster. And yes they can move faster... Right now they are complacent. But if New intel machines couldn't run photoshop until it was native then they would move on it.
The reasoning that everyone would all of a sudden go out and by PC's is not true. The business that i I am in would never do that. They would just wait for Adobe to catch up. As long as Adobe doesn't feel pressure, they apparently don't care how slow their software is running. As for apple - I think they jumped the gun a bit. All these companies think they have everyone by the balls, but if consumers stopped buying everything the second it comes out the consumers would have more leverage. Yes I am dependent on Apple and Adobe, and Apple and Adobe are dependent on their customers. With few exceptions, I think most people can get by for another 6 to 9 months with out buying up everything the minute it comes out. Most business don't upgrade imediately anyway, cause if there is a reall problem it can affect their product or bottm line.
People with money to burn, well, sell them the guinea pigs...
Basically, I think if Mac users stopped buying CS2 products for the next 9 months, CS3 would be moving a lot faster.
First: it doesn't look good for Apple or Adobe to emulate Photoshop on an intel mac.
Second: CS2 runs fine on ppc and will continue to until Adobe comes out with CS3 that is Universal Binary. I am not saying that Adobe shouldn't support ppc machines, I'm saying Apple shouldn't suppoet Photoshop under emulation.
This way it would make Adobe move a little faster. And yes they can move faster... Right now they are complacent. But if New intel machines couldn't run photoshop until it was native then they would move on it.
The reasoning that everyone would all of a sudden go out and by PC's is not true. The business that i I am in would never do that. They would just wait for Adobe to catch up. As long as Adobe doesn't feel pressure, they apparently don't care how slow their software is running. As for apple - I think they jumped the gun a bit. All these companies think they have everyone by the balls, but if consumers stopped buying everything the second it comes out the consumers would have more leverage. Yes I am dependent on Apple and Adobe, and Apple and Adobe are dependent on their customers. With few exceptions, I think most people can get by for another 6 to 9 months with out buying up everything the minute it comes out. Most business don't upgrade imediately anyway, cause if there is a reall problem it can affect their product or bottm line.
People with money to burn, well, sell them the guinea pigs...
Basically, I think if Mac users stopped buying CS2 products for the next 9 months, CS3 would be moving a lot faster.
You are not wrong, and Im really tired of people not reading or doing their homework and finding out the truth. Universal means UNIVERSAL! It works on both ppc and intel.Twenty1 said:
If you removed every post that was based on misinformation this thread would be two pages shorter by now and a whole lot easier to read.
The scene last week:
Potential Switcher: I'm kind of new to this Mac thing. I need a machine that can run Microsoft Office. Do you sell Microsoft Office?
Hapless Apple Store employee: Why, yes.
Potential Switcher: Well, I'll have an iMac and Office please. *hands over credit card*
The scene next week:
Potential Switcher: I'm kind of new to this Mac thing. I need a machine that can run Microsoft Office. Do you sell Microsoft Office?
Hapless Apple Store employee: No.
Potential Switcher: Oh, ok. I'll just get a Dell. *walks to Best Buy*
Seriously Apple: you need to be a little more selective. I agree putting pressure on non-UB producers is a good thing, but you'll do no end of damage if you just ban everything.
Potential Switcher: I'm kind of new to this Mac thing. I need a machine that can run Microsoft Office. Do you sell Microsoft Office?
Hapless Apple Store employee: Why, yes.
Potential Switcher: Well, I'll have an iMac and Office please. *hands over credit card*
The scene next week:
Potential Switcher: I'm kind of new to this Mac thing. I need a machine that can run Microsoft Office. Do you sell Microsoft Office?
Hapless Apple Store employee: No.
Potential Switcher: Oh, ok. I'll just get a Dell. *walks to Best Buy*
Seriously Apple: you need to be a little more selective. I agree putting pressure on non-UB producers is a good thing, but you'll do no end of damage if you just ban everything.
raster said:
Why is everyone always banging on Adobe?
They came out almost immediately after Apple announced they were moving to Intel and said that they would support intel macs in their next release cycle which is to be CS3.
It didn't make economic sense for Adobe to put a significant effort in making CS2 universal. Instead of wasting that effort they chose to put all of their effort in CS3.
Adobe knows the CS2 universal binary market will be extremely small for the first 6 -12 months. They wouldn't even have been able to charge existing CS2 users for the upgrade because it wouldn't have upgraded any features just support for intel hardware.
By the time the intel mac market started to get more significant CS3 would be released and Adobe could charge a decent upgrade price for the new software. It just makes sense, it is not a shot at Apple, it is not because they are lazy, they are not taking advantage of anybody. It is just the right way to run business.
YOU PEOPLE HAVE REALLY LOST it
Apple is NOT stocking Non-converted software because converted software RUNS FASTER AND MAKES MAC LOOK GOOD !!! They are clearly concerned about industry wide benchmark testing !
THIS ONLY AFFECTS PROGRAMMERS.
Universally binaries work with compilers at a very low level to make the software compatible.
Notice it says that Photoshop and MS software will continue to run.
Thus, the software that makes PPC software compatible and run SLOWLY, it is a live translation, is still there AND ALWAYS WILL BE THERE !!!
As for forcing MS and Adobe to update their software quicker by shutting them out of the live translation software -- THIS WOULD BE STUPID !!!
What would be smart would be for Apple to ship their own dwigital dark room software.
And since they all ready have an Office software replacement MSs slowness is good for Apple, too bad they have not shipped an improved spreadsheet YET, or did they ???
Apple is NOT stocking Non-converted software because converted software RUNS FASTER AND MAKES MAC LOOK GOOD !!! They are clearly concerned about industry wide benchmark testing !
THIS ONLY AFFECTS PROGRAMMERS.
Universally binaries work with compilers at a very low level to make the software compatible.
Notice it says that Photoshop and MS software will continue to run.
Thus, the software that makes PPC software compatible and run SLOWLY, it is a live translation, is still there AND ALWAYS WILL BE THERE !!!
As for forcing MS and Adobe to update their software quicker by shutting them out of the live translation software -- THIS WOULD BE STUPID !!!
What would be smart would be for Apple to ship their own dwigital dark room software.
And since they all ready have an Office software replacement MSs slowness is good for Apple, too bad they have not shipped an improved spreadsheet YET, or did they ???
freeny said:
People DO know what it means but YOU are the one that is missing the point. The number of universal binary applications available is very small. The number of PPC only apps available is very big.
Therefore if you are a PPC user and you want to have a wide selection of software available in one place you obviously can't go to an Apple store because they will only have a very small selection of software after July.
Eventually when a lot of the software goes UB then you can go back to the Apple Store.
peharri said:
Umm, that scenario won't happen as Apple has said that it'll special case Adobe and MS products, so you'll still be able to purchase the PPC only version of MS Office (as a side note, Office 2004 Trial is part of the bundled apps on the Intel Mac CD's, though I don't think it's installed by default, you have to actively install it)
Anyway, what is the big fuss? Apple is pulling PPC *only* software from their stores. If there's a Universal version, then it'll work on PPC and Intel, so where's the problem in that situation?
So you need an app that is PPC only, well, you purchase it direct from the developer or a reseller.
Regardless of what Steve might say, creating a Uni version isn't 5 mins worth of work, unless the app is very simplistic. Otherwise, you're looking at a fair amount of development work.
Another factor to slow arrival of Universal builds is that most people initially thought we'd see the first Intel based machines in June this year, not January, so we thought we had a bit more time to work on things. However, they came in Jan and so most people have been playing catch up. Plus there is the fact that the DTK's are different from the released machines, and thus there are differences, so you need to test against the released machines to ensure full compatibility, and so you have to wait for the DTK Exchange programme to kick into effect before you can switch your DTK for an Intel Core Duo iMac, or you have to purchase a new machine if you don't want to wait.
One last comment, on the subject of not going Intel because VPC for Intel isn't out. You should check out Q. I've been using it on my 17" Core Duo iMac and the latest build is working very well for me, and runs both Win98SE and XP Pro SP2 quite happily.
i think it is a bad idea to stop carrying PPC software.
There are alot of people who own PPC machines out there. I do own a mac mini dual core, and will buy a macbook pro soon. but i do have other machines that are not intel.
so what should apple do?
have a universal shelf, and a non-universal shelf.
hell, in the gaming section alone, they would have hardly any programs that are universal, so this is NOT in their interest.
sell BOTH products with great labeling
There are alot of people who own PPC machines out there. I do own a mac mini dual core, and will buy a macbook pro soon. but i do have other machines that are not intel.
so what should apple do?
have a universal shelf, and a non-universal shelf.
hell, in the gaming section alone, they would have hardly any programs that are universal, so this is NOT in their interest.
sell BOTH products with great labeling
The REAL issue here....
OK.... if everyone can stop bickering back and forth about this for one second!
The REAL issue here is that if Apple starts pulling software from their shelves that might be considered "slower sellers" then this is going to put a crimp on the availablke selection in the actual store. As it is now, the local Apple Store is the only place in my area to find a decent selection of Apple Software. Sure I've got a CompUSA, but have you ever tried looking for the software you really wanted or even games there? It's almost impossible.
So everyone just calm down about this. I myself have a negative feel to this story but it has nothing to do with Universal Binaries. It's just that a lot of the software out there on shelves is not Universal yet and I don't feel like having to wait for them to come back out, if at all, just so I can purchase them. I know that Universal will work just as good on my new PowerMac G5 if not better than a new Intel iMac. I just don't want to have to deal with a more limited selection when I'm window shopping at the Apple Store.
OK.... if everyone can stop bickering back and forth about this for one second!
The REAL issue here is that if Apple starts pulling software from their shelves that might be considered "slower sellers" then this is going to put a crimp on the availablke selection in the actual store. As it is now, the local Apple Store is the only place in my area to find a decent selection of Apple Software. Sure I've got a CompUSA, but have you ever tried looking for the software you really wanted or even games there? It's almost impossible.
So everyone just calm down about this. I myself have a negative feel to this story but it has nothing to do with Universal Binaries. It's just that a lot of the software out there on shelves is not Universal yet and I don't feel like having to wait for them to come back out, if at all, just so I can purchase them. I know that Universal will work just as good on my new PowerMac G5 if not better than a new Intel iMac. I just don't want to have to deal with a more limited selection when I'm window shopping at the Apple Store.
mdntcallr said:
You don't need two shelves because the bianaries makes the software work on PPC !!! That is why its called universal, now if all you care about is raw speed only on PPC, then make two shelves and buy the PPC software while you still can
The bottom line is, if you are not a developer don't worry about it !