The simple ignorance, misinformation, half-truths and outright malice among the anti-vax-covid-is-a-hoax-oh-the-oppression crowd just shown in this one thread is reason enough for Apple to keep its mask requirement. It's pretty clear there's a significant number of people who won't offer their fellow humans the simple courtesy of wearing a mask to help everyone stay healthy. If you won't show your neighbors respect, how can you expect it yourself?
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Apple Stores Will Continue to Require Masks for Now
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I might suggest the opposite, but you would probably consider that a completely ignorant position. Rather than assuming the opposition to be ignorant, why not assume they either have access to information you do not, or perhaps their priors differ completely. This is a question of first principles, where one group cares more about arguments from or for authority and others frame things from a perspective of negative liberty.
Frankly put, there is no knowledge about this thing. There are many perspectives, including traditional ones, where true health is generated from within, slave morality, where we are all victims that need an outside saviour, an equality perspective that sort of blends the two but focuses on access to the second, and a lot more.
As a person on the side that believes that covid is some sort of hoax, why not ask questions? Maybe bring up your papers. I would imagine that the side that opposes the mainstream is at least as educated on the subject. Why? Because the opposition is always educated as well as the normie. The reason is because their position isn't the favoured one in any zeitgeist.
Another example is this: my mate, a hippy in Japan, is anti liberalism, but not from a 'conservative' perspective, but from a traditional one. He recognises that no country is allowed to have an economic system that looks like their traditions. Ditto religion. Ditto social construction. Ditto a million things. You are a liberal or you are sanctioned. And these individuals know more about liberalism than do liberals because they attempt to live outside of the bubble whilst being fully ensconced in it.
I would wager that most pro-covid-vax people or covid-is-totally-real know less about the mafia status various medical associations wield in the world against independent medicine, whether traditional or modern, and the massive cahoots between pharmaceuticals, law makers, bankers, international stock speculators, and more, but who knows. Maybe you are as well aware of it all and accept it as completely meet for the modern age.
As a former small-l liberal, I understand hatred or distrust of tradition and the belief in a technological progressive stance aimed at a bigger and brighter future. The thing is that it is totally totalitarian. There can be no traditional ways of life allowed. All must be incorporated, gathered, and tabulated. In time, all must also be made to abandon all traditional trust systems and embrace a media and business-driven reality.
I'm afraid that, as a recent convert against materialistic totalitarianism, the truth grates against the basic tenets of absolute positive liberty couched in equally absolute conformity.
Apple's announcement comes on the heels of Costco, Publix, Trader Joe's, Target, and Walmart all announcing they're dropping mask requirements* given the new CDC guidance. Thus many folks reactions are based in seeing Apple as "digging in their heels" whilst other companies are relaxing their stance.
Perhaps you don't consider them "reasonable"?
(*) in the US, and where there aren't governmental restrictions that trump the store policies.
It's a topsy turvy world!
I want to know what some people have for evidence that this entire thing is a hoax. The ENTIRE WORLD...not just USA has had lockdowns, and deaths and spike in hospitalizations.
This is approaching flat earth conspiracy thinking an entire world can keep quiet about something....and for what reason? We have had major impacts in the world economy due to lockdowns. Why would someone make this up?
I'm pretty sure the security is compromised when you can unlock with a mask on. That does not go down well with Apple and so, TouchID will be brought back to the iPhone to cater to the mask-wearing crowd.
Not in the slightest. It only works if you're wearing an unlocked Apple Watch.
I’m glad this point can be debated online and businesses such as Apple are free to set their policy.
As mentioned above, it only works if the user is wearing an unlocked Apple watch that's paired to the phone and it seems to require at least part of the users face to be visible.
... AND it only unlocks the phone - it doesn't give access to apps which require FaceID to login such as banking apps.
So sure, it's perhaps a reduced security if you keep sensitive stuff in "open" areas of your phone. If someone is concerned about this, they don't have to enable the feature.
Alright, for all the ultra-intelligent people that still believe this garbage, it's not true.
It in fact does prevent infection in most cases and prevents you from being able to pass it.
COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC
Information and resources to help public health departments and laboratories investigate and report COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases.
Breakthrough cases are very, very, low. So low they're not even tracking them anymore unless they lead to a hospitalization or death.
Out of 115 million people vaccinated, they tracked 1,136 hospitalizations. Thats .0009%. I think that means it works. If you're scared of a .0009% chance of going to the hospital (not even dying, because thats way less), then I have a list of daily activities that you might want to stop because they are severely riskier, like driving your car.
If you are vaccinated, stop caring whether or not other people around you are or aren't. It doesn't matter, it really doesn't, it doesn't effect you. I also find it very funny that at a time when cases are at 1yr lows people are acting like everyone who is unvaccinated also must be sick.
Well then, FaceID is _not_ working well when wearing a mask. My original post stands.
COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC
Information and resources to help public health departments and laboratories investigate and report COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases.www.cdc.gov
Breakthrough cases are very, very, low. So low they're not even tracking them anymore unless they lead to a hospitalization or death.
Out of 115 million people vaccinated, they tracked 1,136 hospitalizations. Thats .0009%. I think that means it works. If you're scared of a .0009% chance of going to the hospital (not even dying, because thats way less), then I have a list of daily activities that you might want to stop because they are severely riskier, like driving your car.
It's interesting to note that only 1/5th of the hospitalized breakthrough cases were under 65 years old.
So: if the world has lockdowns, it is evidence of a virus? If reports of death read by or with or from Covid, they absolutely are to be trusted, even in light of hospitals receiving funds for deaths involving Covid, fraudulent PCR activity, changing PCR parameters, the inclusion in deaths of people who die of blunt force trauma, not to mention that there is no pandemic when viewed apart from the media? 2,5 to 3 million dead (including the most creative of reports) after 1,5 years of the pandemic, across a population of 7 billion?
The earth isn't keeping anything quiet. It is an open lie, and politicians flaunting rules, reporters doing the same, changing rules to favour vaccinated (lower PCR thresholds for them and higher for those who are not vaccinated), the insanely low death rates (even with the inflation), all speak to it. The movies and conferences that reinforced the exact scenario including total deaths years to decades before, with detailed outlines of all procedures that will be taken?
I would say from the opposite side: that if you believe there is a pandemic even after a year and a half and all you have to show for it is 3 millions, which isn't even chump change against ALL pandemics throughout history, the conspiracy theory belongs to the other side.
What's your definition of "working well"? 'cuz it seems to be different from other folks.
I use the feature all the time with various store apps to scan/check price, see my shopping list, or even use Sam's Scan&Go feature letting me check out from my phone and skip the cashier lanes.
I had a dear friend who sounded very much like yourself. I appreciate your attempt to convey information. While I may not agree with everything you've posted, you raise good questions and a different view on this "pandemic" than a lot of people.
I don't think I'm trying to enforce anything (in your response to my previous post). I don't yell at people who don't wear masks and I realize we're all wired differently.
I know people close to me who told me that they don't give a crap if people died, nothing is getting in the way of their freedom or their enjoyment of life. The common theme I see is a lack of trying to understand what is going on. Questions are good, but when no effort is made to answer those questions, what good are the questions? - (Talking about people I know, not yourself).
I have some relatives that are nurses, I've got relatives in Peru who are dealing with no hospital/oxygen/access to vaccines in South America... Compare this to some families/churches I know here in the USA that laugh at Covid, laugh at the death rates, and actively encourage people not to wear masks/get the vaccine. It's not so easy to take when I've had relatives die of this stuff waiting for an ICU bed (they were going to get vaccinated the very week they died).
How many people need to die for this to matter? 2k+ Americans who died in 9/11 matter. Yet, 585k Americans don't matter?
Yes, I very clearly understand those with existing health conditions were exceptionally vulnerable. Which is why wearing a mask (minor inconvenience) seems like the right thing to do until we understand more about this thing. Getting a flu shot / covid shot also seems a slight inconvenience if it has the chance to save others.
As far as "big business" and mafia hospitals/pharmacies and the attack on tradition - I can nod my head at and we may be more eye to eye on that than not. My thoughts/views are more directed on the fact that people can't be bothered to care anymore. That one post about how the USA scrimped and saved for rationing in World War II, that generation seems to be long gone. Americans laugh at the idea of their fellow Americans dying these days.
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Most places still are. Every place I went to yesterday, people were putting on masks to enter and wearing them when they came out. All the employees are wearing them for sure.
Gonna be honest, I've had better debates about this and other topics here than in other venues. For example, on Twitter if I made this same post in response to a thread, half the people in it would probably block me or call me names like a middle-schooler.
So, kudos to MacRumors for still being a mostly civil place for debate.
We do agree on one thing: that you are willfully ignorant. There's a very clear line between reasonable questioning and refusal to accept any information. Have you visited a hospital where covid patients are being treated? If you have, do you have an explanation for all the severe illnesses and deaths that are happening? Perhaps you reject those claims? I wonder then, if there's any evidence that would convince you of their accuracy?
You may rationalize your skepticism anyway you wish, but when you start talking about global conspiracies against "alternative" medicine as justification for rejecting reality, (in your words "there is no knowledge about this thing") it should be clear to any rational person that it is your perspective that is flawed, even if it contains elements of truth.
I don't want to derail this thread, however, yeah. The amount of entitlement in some of these posts doesn't bode well for the current generations' future.
Your post is worth quoting and repeating, and thank you for making such a thoughtful point. The level of disregard and denial for the suffering this pandemic has caused in our own backyards makes it difficult to reasonably engage with those who don't accept what has happened.
Sure. This site lists studies that show the ineffectiveness of mask-wearing and here's a popular medical site that lists studies that show the effectiveness of masks.
What you'll notice is that the studies that conclude that masks are effective have a very small sample size and/or take place in local settings, making them less reliable. The studies with larger sample sizes across larger geographic regions show that masks have little to no impact on the spread of Covid. Even JAMA's large scale studies, while listed as proof that masks work, are statistically insignificant. BTW, the Karaivonov study focused mostly on indoor medical facilities, not the general Canadian population, which is a bit misleading on JAMA's part.
Take those studies and real world evidence and I think it's clear that masks have little to no effect on the spread of Covid and much of it has to do with politics and virtue signaling (hey, look at me, I'm doing my part to slow the spread unlike those jerks who are spreading it!).
You can conclude what you want, but IMO, the scientific and real world evidence is clear; facemasks do not work.
That's why there have been large scale studies with proper controls to test that hypothesis.
Maybe I'm readying this wrong but from the link: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536
So the implication is facemasks do work. Now, if you want do split the universe into transmission and receiving, that's another topic.
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Right, so peer reviewed, scientific studies along with other highly detailed studies and data with links to sources that show the ineffectiveness of masks is considered pseudoscience and a conspiracy theory, yet you can't back up your claims that masks work with even a single real world, large scale, peer reviewed study? Oooookaaay.
I guess you have money invested 3M?
Pick the version you want and then claim those who disagree are arguing against peer-reviewed studies.
Can face masks protect against COVID-19?
Face masks can help slow the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). Learn about mask types, which masks to use and how to use them.
www.mayoclinic.org