Apple Sub Notebook Hints: External Optical Drive, MultiTouch Trackpad?

[sushi]

Sony TZ -- Skip it. Low quality. Not built to last.

If that's the case then the MBP is really no better.

Yeah, right.

There is no comparison between the two.

Right - and in a single drive setup I think that SATA's only advantage over PATA is NCQ.

I would think NCQ's advantage is more for server type applications. Also, I think that in certain game situations, on single drive implementations, it can actually slow access due to added latency caused by the NCQ logic.

And, since NCQ is a way to optimize delays due to head movement and rotational latency - it would seem that a PATA SSD and a SATA SSD would be equal since the SSD doesn't have moving parts.

Agree.

Unless, of course, the bandwidths are approaching the 100 MBps or so limit of PATA -- but I haven't seen any consumer level SSD that threatens the bus bandwidth of PATA so far... (I'm playing with one in the lab that needs at least a x8 PCIe interface to run at speed - but the PCIe card is about the same price as a handful of Imacs...)

Sounds cool.

I don't know why people are whining about optical drives. They really don't take up that much space or weight.

Please do yourself a favor and open up a few current laptops and take a look at the innards. Based upon your comments, you will probably be very surprised.

Personally, I like to see hard core ultraportables close to 2 lbs too.

FYI --

Toshiba R500- the lightest version with 64GB SSD is under 2 lbs (1.7lbs IIRC if you forgo the optical drive).

Sony G2 (not available in US except through importers like Dynamism)- the lightest version (without optical drive) is also under 2 lbs. Even with an optical drive, it is just barely over 2 lbs with an SSD and the lightweight battery. This model is reported to be a sturdy notebook.

Panasonic R7 is about 2 lbs (no optical drive). Also tiny... about a 10" screen IIRC.

Sony TZ with a lightweight battery is about 2.2 lbs.

Yep, 2 pounds seems to be the sweet spot for me.

I notice that your examples that weigh close to 2 pounds, do not have an optical drive installed. That is why I believe Apple will not include an optical drive in their ultra-portable laptop, and will instead offer an optional external optical drive via USB.

 

[diamond.g]

My guess is that Apple will use a low power chip, so a cooling fan will not be needed. A metal case helps for cooling as well.

I think it will be a sub 1.5 Ghz CPU. As seen HERE. And even then it has a TDP of 10 Watts, so I am still not sure if it can be ran using passive cooling.

What's wrong with PATA? PATA drives still work okay.

Right - and in a single drive setup I think that SATA's only advantage over PATA is NCQ.

And, since NCQ is a way to optimize delays due to head movement and rotational latency - it would seem that a PATA SSD and a SATA SSD would be equal since the SSD doesn't have moving parts.

Unless, of course, the bandwidths are approaching the 100 MBps or so limit of PATA -- but I haven't seen any consumer level SSD that threatens the bus bandwidth of PATA so far... (I'm playing with one in the lab that needs at least a x8 PCIe interface to run at speed - but the PCIe card is about the same price as a handful of Imacs...)

hmm, I see your points. But if the drive is user replaceable, wouldn't it be easier for them to use the same kind of drive the rest of thier notebooks use? If it isn't user replaceable, then they might as well solder the storage on the mb.

 

[anti-microsoft]

 

[sushi]

hmm, I see your points. But if the drive is user replaceable, wouldn't it be easier for them to use the same kind of drive the rest of thier notebooks use? If it isn't user replaceable, then they might as well solder the storage on the mb.

You have a good point if they use a 2.5 inch form factor.

Since we are talking about an ultra-portable, I would think we will see the 1.8 inch form factor so it won't matter in that case.

 

[CWallace]

But if the drive is user replaceable, wouldn't it be easier for them to use the same kind of drive the rest of thier notebooks use? If it isn't user replaceable, then they might as well solder the storage on the mb.

Even if it is not meant to be user-replaceable, it will be replaceable. Otherwise if you lose a memory module you need to swap the entire systemboard.

BiTMICRO just announced an 832GB SSD 2.5" HDD and appears to have an entire line-up. No pricing info, natch (since it would likely cause a heart-attack), but I imagine it is very expensive.

Courtesy of engadget.

 

[sloopy]

Problems with flash

The thing is all Flash drives have a finite writing capability. Granted its a very large number of time before a sector is unusable, but as the main hard drive for an entire computer it will be a massive failure point. Micro drives which aren't around all that much seem like a better solution. I dont know what the theoretical limit is on size, but they dont have the finite writing issue. I use them for my 20 d all the time and they are wonderful.

My personal prediction is that it will be an uber PDA. A larger version of the iphone that runs the full OS and lets you use it like a laptop so you can have all the nice stuff that you want such as ilife, utility software etc.

I am probably wrong, but everyone else probably is too.

 

[CWallace]

Nice look, but a full-length trackpad strikes me as something that would just get in the way.

That would be a sweet new MacBook.

Here, the multi-touch trackpad just duplicates what is on the screen. Seems superfluous if not confusing.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Yeah, right.

There is no comparison between the two.

Please do yourself a favor and open up a few current laptops and take a look at the innards. Based upon your comments, you will probably be very surprised.

For the blind Apple zealot there is no difference. I love my MBP very much, but the flimsy construction it has is a very annoying aspect of the design and quality. I expect more from a pro machine. The Sony TZ is definitely more solid than the MBP and has far less creaks when you pick it up.

By the way.... don't assume that I haven't opened up a current laptop before we get into a pissing match. If the optical drive in the current laptops are BIG for you, then you need to strengthen up your arms, get better glasses, or re check your standards my friend. Even the drive used in the MBP isn't that big.

Now I do know that you consider an ultra portable to be under 2 lbs. so that may be the reason why you think the OD should be removed, but I am suggesting that Apple make a machine that is just like the very successful Sony TZ, which manages to weigh under 3 lbs. with an optical drive and fully loaded.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Nice look, but a full-length trackpad strikes me as something that would just get in the way.




That would be a sweet new MacBook.




Here, the multi-touch trackpad just duplicates what is on the screen. Seems superfluous if not confusing.

Why couldn't the lazy mockup artist on that last picture just take out the left over MBP bezel and change the look of the iMac bezel to fit with the rest of the design?

 

[CWallace]

Why couldn't the lazy mockup artist on that last picture just take out the left over MBP bezel and change the look of the iMac bezel to fit with the rest of the design?

Agreed. The two colors really clash (like the white on Al keys on my iMac keyboard - of course the keys are mostly dirt-brown in color, now). At the very least, there should have been a noticeably thick Al rim around the black, extending over to the back side.

Though I'd still prefer all black (ala the second one) or all Al.

 

[zioxide]

The thing is all Flash drives have a finite writing capability. Granted its a very large number of time before a sector is unusable, but as the main hard drive for an entire computer it will be a massive failure point. Micro drives which aren't around all that much seem like a better solution.

Except small hard drives (like iPod ones) are slow as ****.

Flash is the future. The newest SSDs will last around 10 years. By then you can afford to get a new drive if you still have the computer.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Agreed. The two colors really clash (like the white on Al keys on my iMac keyboard - of course the keys are mostly dirt-brown in color, now). At the very least, there should have been a noticeably thick Al rim around the black, extending over to the back side.

Though I'd still prefer all black (ala the second one) or all Al.

Yes indeed, consistency is very welcomed. I think the many mockups on the web stem from over active imaginations. They look okay, but not very cool or practical, and what Apple needs now is hardware that competes not looks cool.

 

[Mr. Funsocks]

I'd buy that.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Ummm. This....



Looks like this...



So we can call it the MacBook Mutant.

 

[fiftydollarshoe]

I'd buy that.

No you wouldn't....... try doing one handed multi-touch gestures with your current trackpad..... what happens.... your fingers hit the keyboard or the rim of the pad itself.... they could never make enough room for both keyboard and multi-touch pad..... one handed gestures also cause cramp in one hand... now perform multi-touch gestures with two hands.... ie left hand directs the mouse/option and he right hand performs the gestures.... what happens.... much easier to perform and you have more control...... now think of the patent for the OED keyboard... so two touch-pads or one combined with part section changing in form and mode depending on function.... think about large document... one finger hits turn page and the other hand flicks the page with a right to left gesture... zoom in... one hand hits zoom and the other hand pinches the page.... it removes the need to select menu options from the top of the window or right click for context menus.... it would be so much faster to use..... Apple also put in a patent for a gesture dictionary did they not ?

Those with iPhone know that multi-touch is so much better when your phone is on a table or hard surface.... problem it has now is one hand is generally always holding the device for one handed use... typing is so much easier on the display with two hands.... now combine that with a gesture dictionary..... you could do anything without removing your hands from the touch area/screen.....

try it with your hands and see whats the easiest way to use... the design will follow from that..... Im sure apple didnt take the current MacBook and think how they can turn it into a tablet/mutli-touch device..... I'm sure they started with nothing and thought about the best way a user could interact with their information/pictures/videos etc with their hands....

 

[anti-microsoft]

No you wouldn't....... try doing one handed multi-touch... ...with their hands....

Aha! but you see it doesn't have a rim so you'd be free of bumbing your fingers against the rim of the pad.

 

[CWallace]

So we can call it the MacBook Mutant.

The sad thing is, I am really pleased with how the new 2710p tablet looks. I almost had work order me one for the office, but was successful in getting them to buy me a MacBook Pro 17".

 

[Digital Skunk]

Im sure apple didnt take the current MacBook and think how they can turn it into a tablet/mutli-touch device..... I'm sure they started with nothing and thought about the best way a user could interact with their information/pictures/videos etc with their hands....

MY GOD! You are a genius! You are surely not a mockup artist are you? If you are you must be one of the few GOOD ones out there. Where have you been?

The sad thing is, I am really pleased with how the new 2710p tablet looks. I almost had work order me one for the office, but was successful in getting them to buy me a MacBook Pro 17".

I like how the HP laptops are coming out as well. When I said Mutant I was kind of suggesting that the MacBook Pro mockup was some kind of mix matched Frankenstein's monster type of thing... especially since the artist just took the bezel from the iMac and didn't try to use their imagination.

I think many PC makers are starting to understand that design plays a key role in computer sales and customer opinion, and are making changes to adapt to a market that Apple dominates. But at the same time Apple is failing to see that consumers still want good hardware, and that there is a market for Apple computers with replaceable parts that isn't a Mac Pro. So I hope that Apple adapts to a market that is already dominated by PCs.

 

[fiftydollarshoe]

Aha! but you see it doesn't have a rim so you'd be free of bumbing your fingers against the rim of the pad.

the area is still to small for full-use multi--touch gestures.... also how would you notion to move the mouse as distinct from "delete" for an email ? iPhone works on the 3.5 screen because you don't use the gestures for constant long-term use - you make a few actions then stop... if multi-touch is a on a desktop for all functions then your hands would be destroyed in such a small space..... the keyboard has to go..... Jobs also mentioned this was the problem with smartphones prior to iPhone... the keyboard is "hardwired" into the device and it cant change..... the same would apply to tablet/MT-MacBook..... the keyboard has to go..... it will only appear when needed..... I see a dual screen DS style....

 

[anti-microsoft]

the area is still to small for full-use multi--touch gestures.... also how would you notion to move the mouse as distinct from "delete" for an email ? iPhone works on the 3.5 screen because you don't use the gestures for constant long-term use - you make a few actions then stop... if multi-touch is a on a desktop for all functions then your hands would be destroyed in such a small space..... the keyboard has to go..... Jobs also mentioned this was the problem with smartphones prior to iPhone... the keyboard is "hardwired" into the device and it cant change..... the same would apply to tablet/MT-MacBook..... the keyboard has to go..... it will only appear when needed..... I see a duel screen DS style....

What about battery power?? And you wouldn't use the multi-touch all the time...It would be like a double-function trackpad with the basic multi-touch functions of the iPhone.

 

[homeboy]

The thing is all Flash drives have a finite writing capability.

That's not something you would have to worry about because you, your children and their brand children would be dead by the time a normal person would be able to reach the point when the flash drive have reached it's limit read/write limit.

So basically that's not a draw back one would have you worry about. Your HDD drive on the other hand is very prone to failure, specially if it's in a portable device.

 

[leekohler]

I want one of these. If indeed they include an external optical drive, I want it even more.

 

[fiftydollarshoe]

What about battery power?? And you wouldn't use the multi-touch all the time...It would be like a double-function trackpad with the basic multi-touch functions of the iPhone.

I see dual screen to bend the device into the position that your in.... ie sitting down, standing up, at a desk, in an airplane etc etc etc.... the current laptop shape is not really conducive to anything but sitting down and the tablet has the same problem... it needs to be held by one hand thus rendering real interaction useless... why do we use laptops today ? because they are portable not because they are easier than a desktop to use...... multi-touch doesn't make the current laptop shape easier to use... it has to change and the keyboard has to go.....

 

[Mr. Funsocks]

No you wouldn't....... try doing one handed multi-touch gestures with your current trackpad..... what happens.... your fingers hit the keyboard or the rim of the pad itself.... they could never make enough room for both keyboard and multi-touch pad..... one handed gestures also cause cramp in one hand... now perform multi-touch gestures with two hands.... ie left hand directs the mouse/option and he right hand performs the gestures.... what happens.... much easier to perform and you have more control...... now think of the patent for the OED keyboard... so two touch-pads or one combined with part section changing in form and mode depending on function.... think about large document... one finger hits turn page and the other hand flicks the page with a right to left gesture... zoom in... one hand hits zoom and the other hand pinches the page.... it removes the need to select menu options from the top of the window or right click for context menus.... it would be so much faster to use..... Apple also put in a patent for a gesture dictionary did they not ?

Those with iPhone know that multi-touch is so much better when your phone is on a table or hard surface.... problem it has now is one hand is generally always holding the device for one handed use... typing is so much easier on the display with two hands.... now combine that with a gesture dictionary..... you could do anything without removing your hands from the touch area/screen.....

try it with your hands and see whats the easiest way to use... the design will follow from that..... Im sure apple didnt take the current MacBook and think how they can turn it into a tablet/mutli-touch device..... I'm sure they started with nothing and thought about the best way a user could interact with their information/pictures/videos etc with their hands....

Let me rephrase that. I like the design of the product even though it isn't practical. I mean hell it looks better than that HP mutant macbook with that gross black outline.

 

[sushi]

For the blind Apple zealot there is no difference. I love my MBP very much, but the flimsy construction it has is a very annoying aspect of the design and quality. I expect more from a pro machine. The Sony TZ is definitely more solid than the MBP and has far less creaks when you pick it up.

FYI, I use both and have since DOS 1.0 and the MacSE. Prefer Mac.

Side by side comparison, which I did, shows many differences. The display is a big one.

Used to be a big fan of Sony, but not any more. Waste of money IMHO. I will grant you that it they do look nice, but that is about it these days. But that's me. YMMV.

By the way.... don't assume that I haven't opened up a current laptop before we get into a pissing match. If the optical drive in the current laptops are BIG for you, then you need to strengthen up your arms, get better glasses, or re check your standards my friend. Even the drive used in the MBP isn't that big.

As others have shown via pictures in this thread, the optical drive takes up a lot of space (volume).

And the smaller the computer, the more space relative to the size, an optical drive takes. This creates structural issues for the designers.

So to have a laptop design without an optical drive allows for a smaller, lighter and stronger laptop.

Now I do know that you consider an ultra portable to be under 2 lbs. so that may be the reason why you think the OD should be removed, but I am suggesting that Apple make a machine that is just like the very successful Sony TZ, which manages to weigh under 3 lbs. with an optical drive and fully loaded.

Who knows what Apple will come up with.

But I hope we see a real ultra-portable that comes in around 2 pounds instead of under 3 pounds.

If not, I may go with a Thinkpad or Panasonic model for my next laptop.

This....

Looks like this...

So we can call it the MacBook Mutant.

This post is very revealing.

IMHO, there is no comparison between the two models. In your eyes they look similar. We definitely see things differently concerning design.