Apple Sued by U.S. Department of Justice, Says Lawsuit is 'Wrong'

[kwikdeth]

So confused.
I despise TC and what Apple has become under his leadership.
I also despise government overreach and frivolous lawsuits.

It reminds me of the tagline of that Aliens Vs Predator movie from years ago... "No matter who wins, we lose."

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

More like a Biden shakedown

I suppose the multiple countries are shaking them down huh 🙄

 

[spazzcat]

So confused.
I despise TC and what Apple has become under his leadership.
I also despise government overreach and frivolous lawsuits.

It reminds me of the tagline of that Aliens Vs Predator movie from years ago... "No matter who wins, we lose."

Pretty much everything in this lawsuit came under Jobs.

 

[Onelifenofear]

Good.

Besides folks on macrumors, everyone wants this. How many complaints do I get from people in the us about broken group chats because Apple? Pixelated videos, reactions not working etc. it's all Apple's fault.

On what? What are you gibbering about?

 

[NT1440]

actually, it's apple has a monopoly of apps on an iOS device... which i mean is quite real.

but also it can't be argued that apple has market power over app developers, which is really the key.

When can I sue John Deere for having a monopoly on John Deere cupholders for their mowers?

When can I get Spiderman for PlayStation on my Xbox?

It’s an incredibly stupid and pedantic argument. You buy an iDevice knowing you’re not installing Android app versions.

 

[wilhoitm]

I really don't understand the so-called "Apple monopoly" premise.

I know right! How can a Wall Garden be a Monopoly? People are just hating on Apple's success!

 

[The_Gream]

Why was this filed in the District of New Jersey and not the Northern District of California like the Epic lawsuit? Wouldn't it be easier to go before the same set of judges?

Probably because Apple was not found to be a monopoly in that district and only lost on the anti-steering clause of their TOS.

 

[Onelifenofear]

No most developers are not happy with the 15/30%
They are just not big enough to take Apple on

We are. I was happy with 30%. I am ecstatic with 15%. I would like to be in the 30% bracket! In the bad old days of software we were lucky to take home 15%.

I get that the large corps want to scratch the last penny - But Epic just want to have free access to all Apple's hard won clinets and goodwill and pay them nothing. "I want everything for free. Stamps feet"

And what have Epic announced... 12%... Whoop-di-flipping do.

 

[Onelifenofear]

Or more like a Mac from 2024.

eh?

Sense make you not. Like Yoda you speak.

 

[Onelifenofear]

If we elect Trump does this lawsuit go away? What a thing to run on.

You can guarantee the orange Buffoon will be working up a nonsensical diatribe right now, will probably blame Mexico or Canadians or something.

 

[bsolar]

Why was this filed in the District of New Jersey and not the Northern District of California like the Epic lawsuit? Wouldn't it be easier to go before the same set of judges?

The complaint alleges specific violations of New Jersey antitrust law:

Fifth Claim for Relief: Violation of the New Jersey Antitrust Act (Monopoly Maintenance)

 

[Someyoungguy]

Why doesn't my Kitchenaid blender allow other attachments for other blenders to work. The DOJ needs to get on this ASAP

There are many third party attachments that fit the kitchenaid mixer. And there is no 30% fee.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Did I propose Apple to license iPhone clones for equality? If you understood that

No, not at all.

You equated Apple's market power or "dominance" to McDonald's in the burger market and then various Android manufacturers to a variety of burger restaurants.

I disagree that and believe it's a flawed comparison.

👉 We're talking about software and functionality defined by software. Not hardware. No one is saying that Apple abuse their market power by preventing other manufacturers from making or selling hardware products. They aren't preventing smartphone vendors from selling other brands of smartphones in addition to iPhones. But they do limit, restrict and charge on software and software functionality.

Android is still Android. The fact that there are several manufacturers of Android phones doesn't impact the market power of Google (and Apple combined).

👉 There is only one comparable alternative to iOS - and that's Android.
And there's only one comparable alternative to the Apple App Store - and that's the Google Play store.

Also: a lack barriers make this a flawed comparison.

👉 There's a very low barrier in setting up and alternative burger restaurant and becoming successful with it - while there's a almost insurmountable barrier to create a mobile OS or application store to rival Apple's and Google's (particularly without regulation).

👉 And there are considerable barriers from consumers switching between Android and iOS and back overnight. Whereas your choice of McDonald's today does has no bearing whatsoever on your choice of restaurant tomorrow.

I just said there are other choices if you do not agree with a business model or product

There aren't dozens of alternatives to iOS as an operating system and the Apple App Store as a store.

There but one alternative - Android and Google Play. There's a of lack of alternatives (relevant alternatives that offer a comparable range and depth of apps).

 

[laptech]

People need to stop and give serious thought to what Apple actually provides to developers of apps. All they provide is the programming tools and a server to host the apps and that's it and they charge EVERY dev $99 a year for it. The dev's do all the programming, the artwork, audio, text, layout design, everything. Then they test everything to make sure it works. Apple does NOTHING to help in this design and build process and yet they want their blood from every dev. They cannot tell their users of sales or promotions that are outside of the app. They are not allowed to use any pay system except Apples and to do so incurs extra costs. Now with the EU's DMA ruling, instead of Apple allowing dev's to just edit their code and put in links that takes users away from the app, Apple design an API/Softkit that dev's are required to use in their app that is designed to allow links in the app and of course, because Apple have designed an API/Softkit for this purpose, Apple can claim that using it incurs a cost

It amazes me how many members in here do not want to see how deplorable Apple are behaving.

 

[seek3r]

Google, Amazon, Meta, Microsoft, Anheuser Busch, ……..

Don’t look for this Apple complaint to be settled anytime within the next five, probably ten years. The companies listed above are all on the government’s hit list.

Good. We need a good round of trust busting, it's been a while.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

When can I sue John Deere for having a monopoly on John Deere cupholders for their mowers?

When can I get Spiderman for PlayStation on my Xbox?

It’s an incredibly stupid and pedantic argument. You buy an iDevice knowing you’re not installing Android app versions.

None of the examples you gave are arguably its own marketplace.

but just taking your spiderman example: you as a consumer has no right to force spiderman on xbox. but perhaps if spiderman wants to launch xbox and xbox forces spiderman to cost more than their own games, than yea they'll probablyb e sued.

 

[javisan]

For the Apple pro-bono lawyers on this thread, I would greatly appreciate if you could help answer the following:

1. In Mac OS, I can install software from the Mac App Store, but also from third-party identified developers and unidentified developers (after clicking through the warning). Why can't I do the same on my iPhone?
2. In Mac OS, I can install any third-party web browser, and these browsers are free to include any features that they like. For example, I can install Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome, and both browsers can offer the use of extensions. Why are third-party browsers forced to develop their iOS browsers with WebKit? And even while using WebKit, why can't third-party browsers in iOS offer users the usage of browser extensions, something that only Apple can offer via Safari?

If the honest and truthful answer to the above questions is that Apple has concerns over security and privacy, then answer this: Why doesn't Apple force the same limitations in Mac OS?

Where is Apple's courage to be consistent and apply the same rules in iOS and Mac OS?

 

[GrayFlannel]

I think the DOJ is going to have a hard time proving the commission is abusive…

The case looks to be about locking in users and locking out competition, not about commission.

 

[wilhoitm]

A company doesn't need to have 90% share to be in violation of antitrust laws, and having one or more alternatives does not negate antitrust laws. There are only two major players in the mobile OS market (iOS having the largest share in the U.S.) and an investigation and potential lawsuit against Apple regarding its alleged anticompetitive behavior is warranted.

Just because Microsoft's killed their smart phone does not mean Apple is a Monopoly!

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Because iOS is not windows or Mac and it was not designed as such.

Akshually...

From a developer point of view, they are very similar.

In fact, that's why macOS and iOS apps can share a nearly identical codebase.

 

[wbeasley]

Yes, it will— because people who don’t know any better will download apps or click on a link that installs something outside of the App Store and boom! Then they will complain about less security.

And wait until those bad agent apps get access to their contact lists and bank details and see the consequences of letting people load anything they want.

We had years of buying anti virus software until they gave up that they couldnt stay ahead of bad coders (and anti virus ware became bloated and caused problems as well). We do not need another level of tech we carry or wear to have the same support issues that open desktop/laptops have.

 

[roar08]

Apple’s time is ending. Their monopoly is over.

This is one monopoly that was allowed to run for too long.

Government opinion aside, how is Apple a monopoly in your own words?

 

[bgillander]

I can see some of the complaints, but "users who purchase the Apple Watch face substantial out-of-pocket costs if they do not keep buying iPhones"?

My case for my old phone doesn't fit my new phone, my old wheels don't fit my new car. Is every company going to be held to the standard of making every accessory interoperable with everything?

Don't get me wrong, as I think far more things should be re-usable and interchangeable, rather than disposable, but this seems like a very specific expectation of a rather high standard that doesn't seem to exist in this world.

Technically, those users face substantial out-of-pocket costs if they DO keep buying iPhones, too. Now a Rolex, I guess that'll save you some substantial out-of-pocket costs, as it is interoperable.

 

[wbeasley]

Akshually...

From a developer point of view, they are very similar.

In fact, that's why macOS and iOS apps can share a nearly identical codebase.

code base is different to OS though.

iOS has much tighter controls hence the drama of this fight to open things up.

It's great you can write code once and compile it to different platforms but there are still many many differences (including devices with touch input - a fairly significant one which changes user experience and interactions).

 

[NT1440]

None of the examples you gave are arguably its own marketplace.

but just taking your spiderman example: you as a consumer has no right to force spiderman on xbox. but perhaps if spiderman wants to launch xbox and xbox forces spiderman to cost more than their own games, than yea they'll probablyb e sued.

Wouldn’t iOS vs Android be “sub” market places? You have the *choice* of hundreds of phones to purchase before you even get to apps.

And how does John Deere not have a monopoly on John Deere accessories?