Apple Sued by U.S. Department of Justice, Says Lawsuit is 'Wrong'

[MyOwnDrummer]

Apple is giving me the exact experience that I desire. If I do not like what they offer, I have tons of options.

Two years ago, I completely switched over to the Apple ecosystem, because their hardware, their software, the apps available through their store, and the entire ecosystem served my needs better than any other options.

For the millions, or billions of people for whom Apple isn’t the right choice, all kinds of other options.

I do agree that Apple is a monopoly. They hold a tight grip on their monopoly of providing the Apple experience.

I guess it’s time to sue Costco for not allowing Sam’s Club to sell gas in their parking lot.

FUDOJ.

 

[bgillander]

There are aspects that they list that seem questionable. You talking about this one in particular.

• Excluding Cross-Platform Messaging Apps. Apple has made the quality of cross-platform messaging worse, less innovative, and less secure for users so that its customers have to keep buying iPhones.

How can Apple make the "quality" of cross platform messaging worse? Most of the time it's just text files we get from businesses or other smartphone users via SMS or MMS. Perhaps the other content not shared is used in a more fun way, but not really necessary as you can readily send emails with a lot more embedded then using a texting app universally. I don't think any user out there rely's on single apps for everything, they will use whatever works. This sounds a lot like the earlier story of politicians getting upset about the beeper dev that was trying to fake credentials so his messaging app would work with 15 different messaging system on multiple platforms including iMessenger that uses encryption.

I expect it is exactly that, and that they are taking the complaint at face value without understanding those technical details. Apple made cross-platform messaging worse by not allowing another company to simply use their messaging service, much like the banks make my financial situation worse by not letting me withdraw others' savings.

 

[motorazr]

wow. 2024. the year of bad luck for Apple.

It’s not bad luck. It’s strategy that’s started to go awry.

Apple seems to dislike their customers; it feels like they’re seen as a cost, even if they’re buying new things — hence the stores switching to one-to-many sales for iPhones! Lower the cost of labor to help customers, and god forbid you try to get help at the genius bar or accessory sales!

 

[bgillander]

Nonsense. The three largest governments on earth - US, EU, and China - plus numerous smaller national governments, plus dozens of US state governments, plus dang near every tech company, has all said Apple is operating numerous monopolies.

The most shocking thing to me (who started saying this, stopped developing apps for their platforms, and stopped buying their products new) is how dang long it took for this to crash down on Apple.

Even now, I assume it’ll take a year or two or more for this to work its way through the US court system. I wonder if we’ll find Apple was bribing/lobbying to keep anyone from looking into their monopolies.

As much as I hate lobbying and those involved, that seems a rather inflamatory conflation there.

 

[ender78]

Do you remember when the evil government went after Microsoft for their monopoly incl. forcing some options for browsers? Do you remember if that helped Apple, or if Apple supported it? Do you remember if forcing some changes there lead to a worse situation for consumers?

All it did on Windows is change the default from IE to Chrome. It did little or nothing to encourage browser interop.

 

[quatermass]

Just buy an Android if that's what you want to do. Don't buy a product knowing that it doesn't do that and then complain about it, especially when there's a viable competitor in the market that does offer such a product.

No, no.... you can't buy an Android phone as that's not possible, as Apple have a monopoly and there's no alternatives available. It's Apple or nothing. Obviously.

Monopoly (noun): The exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service.

Er.... wait a minute.... if there are Android phones, then it can't be a monopoly.... I'll get my coat.

 

[ender78]

As usual, Apple defends rent seeking and touting it as their legitimate right. /s

How dare landlords charge rent.

 

[slomojoe]

i'm in on the watch thing, hate the apple watch and love the samsung galaxy, why can't you have either on both platforms ?

also, apple's policy on disallowing certain social media apps is a violation of free speech rights given the importance of social media

hope the government wins and don't think it will hurt apple's business at all

 

[Onelifenofear]

SUCK IT TO ALL THE APPLE SHAREHOLDER$$$

This day was inevitable.

Once consumers get an actual taste of FREEDOM from the digital prison they were in there is no going back and they will more clearly see the REAL reason

iOS was wall gardened and App store MONOPOLIZED.


Eventually:
CONSUMERS get to choose where to buy their apps. NOT Apple
CONSUMERS get to choose where to download from. NOT Apple
CONSUMERS get to install what THEY want. NOT Apple.
CONSUMERS get more control over how to use THEIR device. NOT apple

Apple will finally have to COMPETE.
No FEAR MONGERING of 'safety and security' is going to work anymore....while Apple hilariously throws its own MacOS under the bus.

So you've not actually read the filing then? Just strutting around spouting the same old rubbish.

Most of the document is written by old men who have zip all idea how technology work... and Most of this is NOTHING to do with the App Store. It's almost entirely aimed at cutting Apples fees from Apple Pay that the Banks have to pay. That is the main agenda. Nothing else.

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

And the 2016 Trump ain't the 2024 Trump.

Yes it is 🙄

 

[visualseed]

Microsoft wouldn't have survived in the IBM "App Store" (alternate universe) because IBM never would have allowed Microsoft to ship their own version of MS-DOS that installed over IBM DOS. You don't know the history of the software industry. Microsoft was "contracted" to deliver the first version of DOS and limited updates (which they bought from another company and ported to the IBM PC architecture [short version]). That first version of DOS was IBM DOS, but IBM allowed Microsoft to keep the rights to DOS and continue developing it on their own. They also allowed Microsoft DOS to be installed over IBM DOS, and eventually they discontinued IBM DOS (jointly terminated the original contract) and just paid Microsoft for each copy of Microsoft DOS that shipped with an IBM PC.

If IBM followed the current Apple App Store model, IBM NEVER would have allowed Microsoft to continue developing their own version of DOS for the IBM PC. This would have eliminated Microsoft's cash flow from selling every copy of DOS. Yes, Microsoft would have continued to provide updates for IBM DOS and maintained some cash flow as a sub contractor, but that would have been minuscule compared to a per unit payment.

Of course if IBM set out on this (alternate universe) IBM PC "App Store" path they probably would have just bought and ported DOS themselves. But IBM knew they were a hardware company AND, YES, YES, YES!!! they didn't want to get anywhere near an ANTI-TRUST situation. This is a historical FACT! IBM understood if they created their own software division for the IBM PC it would have a natural advantage over any and every other software company that might write apps for the platform. This would dissuade other companies from writing for the platform and/or create an anti-trust issue.

IBM and everyone else had just seen the anti-trust nightmare AT&T went through and didn't want to take the same path. This is the first post that even mentions the AT&T anti-trust case. Proves you are all ignorant.

Edit: Please see my previous posts for the discussion of my Apple style IBM "App Store" alternate universe which are proof Apple App Stores violate anti-trust law.

IBM didn't need to see the AT&T antitrust nightmare. They just spent the previous decade fighting off the DOJ suing them for the same thing.

 

[pugxiwawa]

There are aspects that they list that seem questionable. You talking about this one in particular.

• Excluding Cross-Platform Messaging Apps. Apple has made the quality of cross-platform messaging worse, less innovative, and less secure for users so that its customers have to keep buying iPhones.

How can Apple make the "quality" of cross platform messaging worse? Most of the time it's just text files we get from businesses or other smartphone users via SMS or MMS. Perhaps the other content not shared is used in a more fun way, but not really necessary as you can readily send emails with a lot more embedded then using a texting app universally. I don't think any user out there rely's on single apps for everything, they will use whatever works. This sounds a lot like the earlier story of politicians getting upset about the beeper dev that was trying to fake credentials so his messaging app would work with 15 different messaging system on multiple platforms including iMessenger that uses encryption.

If you read the actual filing, they listed out 2 examples. 1 is that 3rd party messager cannot stay alive in the background while Apple’s can, and 2, video call 3rd party app doesn’t have access to photo preview while FaceTime can. And this is the reason why 3rd party app can’t compete, because Apple makes the experience of using these app so much worse.

 

[MyiBill]

Build Back Better at work, let’s target something that’s a choice while everything falls apart

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

Trump, personally, has sued everyone. Not a headline anymore. If he had all the money he's paid lawyers on frivolous lawsuits, he could probably post is $454M bond.

You may want to actually research why he can't post it 🙄

 

[Powerguru]

Oh well! We got what we voted for. So next time vote carefully.

 

[Ctrlos]

No, no.... you can't buy an Android phone as that's not possible, as Apple have a monopoly and there's no alternatives available. It's Apple or nothing. Obviously.

Monopoly (noun): The exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service.

Er.... wait a minute.... if there are Android phones, then it can't be a monopoly.... I'll get my coat.

It’s not that simple though. What if I want to switch to Android phone and keep using iCloud for my data backups? Photographs? Or keep my Apple Watch? Exchange data freely with my iPad?

Apple purposefully puts inconvenient roadblocks in place to prevent this from happening, largely because the iPhone supports their wearables and services divisions.

It’s also getting worse.

 

[developer13245]

IBM didn't need to see the AT&T antitrust nightmare. They just spent the previous decade fighting off the DOJ suing them for the same thing.

Great point.

So IBM developed the IBM PC but didn't create a captive IBM "App Store" because they knew it would invoke anti-trust action. But today Apple now believes it is can do what IBM knew was illegal.

 

[transpo1]

Probably most of the people on this board supporting Apple have never gone through the process of actually producing a mobile app.

Here's a hint from someone in the trenches - we don't really like the current situation. There's A LOT of problems that Apple has simply refused to address over the last 14 years. The current situation prevents developers from delivering their best and taking care of users, and users get corralled into overpriced subscription options with less choice.

There's nothing wrong with the App Store as-is, but it shouldn't be the only way to install software on an iPhone or iPad. Especially given the notorization scheme we now have on MacOS.

Unless you have gone through the process of delivering an app through the App Store, you need to keep your "Walmart and target" comments to yourself. You have little clue what's actually going on here.

Nice try, but everyone is entitled to an opinion here, developer or not. End users are the customers of developers and decide what apps sell and which don't sell; so actually, we have just as much right (or more) to an opinion.

And by the way, from what I've seen represented on these forums, consumers are going to hate these changes.

 

[transpo1]

It’s not that simple though. What if I want to switch to Android phone and keep using iCloud for my data backups? Photographs? Or keep my Apple Watch? Exchange data freely with my iPad?

Apple purposefully puts inconvenient roadblocks in place to prevent this from happening, largely because the iPhone supports their wearables and services divisions.

It’s also getting worse.

So don't buy an iPhone. You're not entitled to buy a Toyota and use their infotainment and navigation system on a Ford. For that, you have to buy a Ford. It's not anti-competitive, it's just that you chose poorly.

 

[Gloor]

is Mac malware-ridden piece of crap?

The DOJ and the EU are DETERMINED to make your iPhone a malware-ridden piece of crap; as enjoyable to use as a desktop computer from 1998.

 

[eifelbube]

Is there a legal difference between defend and vigorously defend? Why do people always add vigorously? I assume no one wants to casually defend themselves? Or do they think this adds a note of indignation? If so, why always vigorously instead of some other word?

Edit: I don't understand why a few people "disagree" with this. It is a real question. There is nothing to disagree with. If you think I am ignorant, just answer the question.

Edit: Someone offered an answer: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...s-department-of-justice.2422451/post-33026392

To me, „vigorously“ sounds a loud emotional undertone, by someone who feels threatened. Earlier in the paragraph, Apple states that „This lawsuit threatens who we are …“. It indeed threatens who they have become since iOS. They have been making $$$ which the lawsuit potentially could reduce to $$.

 

[JoeG4]

So don't buy an iPhone. You're not entitled to buy a Toyota and use their infotainment and navigation system on a Ford. For that, you have to buy a Ford. It's not anti-competitive, it's just that you chose poorly.

That's not the best comparison because you could in fact grab a toyota infotainment system and stuff it in a ford. As long as you supply the right amount of power, it'll turn on... and probably to some degree work. If you produced an adapter, it'd probably work.

Most cars work that way. That's how you can buy an alpine unit and some random PAC dongles and plug it in and it all just works.

My goodness, how long have you been around?

is Mac malware-ridden piece of crap?

Install enough apps on an iphone and it basically is. Apple keeps singing platitudes about how secure and how great their platform is, while we keep getting report after report about data breaches and companies reselling and profiting like mad off people's (supposedly private) info (harvested from those most secure ever iPhones)

 

[Ctrlos]

A userbase of 1.5bn devices is an infrastructure and not just another handset. If you had to buy a new TV, refrigerator and lighting system just because you wanted to change electricity suppliers you’d be livid at the idea. What if your car could only drive on certain roads and couldn’t use other ones? Can’t buy a new house in a different neighbourhood because your furniture isn’t compatible?

Whilst it’s true we choose to live in Apple’s walled garden it can sometimes feel like a prison. The daft thing is if Apple did make things like iCloud and the Watch compatible with Android they’d likely open up new revenue streams and the increased competition would only yield better products which is better for everyone.

 

[mcnallym]

Since you keep saying that, do you buy iPhones solely because they are closed. That is, would you be as happy if you used an Android phone that was closed?

short answer is no. However at that point it wouldn’t be Android anymore Would it, For longer answer then,

I buy an iPhone as it closed ecosystem with my iPad, Apple TV, and Mac and Airpod Pro. No watch as really don’t see the point personally and haven’t worn a watch in decades full stop. Why would i buy an Android period unless offered better integration with the rest of the Apple products or at least the same. Or switch to the android ecosystem ie Chrome on phones and windows pc. Or I decided that the Apple premium was too high To continue with.

i also have a windows Pc that keep for gaming because the main game I play isn’t on Mac OS, and even when it was then was not as good as windows version and the Mac OS version been dumped since.

now all of that could be swapped out at hardware refresh time

iphone/iPad for android versions.
AirPod pro for some other headphones.
use windows Pc with Chrome and sign in on all 3 systems,
mac studio with Windows PC and video editing software to replace FCP X for which paid 299 back in 2013 and had so far 11 years of updates without an extra penny on FCP X.
apple tv with a tv box that has a Plex Client
iTunes purchased video, music can buy DRM removal software download my purchases, run through the DRM removal and load into Plex TV on NAS box and can watch all my purchased movies on Plex rather then Apple TV.
whilst i do use an apple email address that can be swapped over to my other email that use but kept the apple email for specific purposes so do not currently get spam or junk in the apple email.

now I wouldn’t find it quite as nicely integrated perhaps compared to Apple but it all would work. So to me the trade off of the premium is worth it, but I wouldn’t say never. Would save money as individuals cheaper and consolidate video editing and games PC into one serious saving money.

so even though am on Apple then I am not locked in and have a way off when I want it. Nothing doing in the apple ecosystem that couldn’t do on the alternative.

originally was a Mac mini 2009 and mbp pro 2008 but too slow for editing video so bought a second hand Mac Pro 2010 that upgraded CPU, RAM and flashed GTX680 Nvidia in 2013.

replaced the mini with a 2018 and the Mac Pro with (brace for shock) a Hackintosh following a golden build on a hack forum. At the time no suitable Mac as not seeing the 2013 MP, as being good and in 2019 then was ancient anyway. Later on moved to a NAS to replace the mini and a Mac Studio to replace the Hack. Laptop was not really using so replaced with the iPad.

as using a NAS that on anyway then moved to Plex for own recordings and stream Apple TV from internet save having a mac on 24/7 So dropped the mini from my system and offloaded to parents to use. In an ideal world would love apple to release a docker AppleTV server app so could move back from Plex to just Apple TV however don’t see that happening. Apple NAS, no chance too commoditised to get the margin apple would want same as why dropped airport and timecapsule products.

when I purchased my studio then the guy at apple store was all enthusiastic and telling me the set for 10 years, however lost his smile when asked if that meant apple would be providing OS updates for 10 years as use FCP X and that requires that keep the OS updated to update the FCP X. I took that as a no they won’t provide OS updates for 10 years.

I still use an old Dell 3008WFP monitor with the studio and windows PC as the studio display really not worth it. The 27” vs 30” and 2560 x 1600 vs effective 2560 x1440 on the studio display. Have a logitech 4k webcam attached to Mac as well so can FaceTime from it no problem.

so when the apple hardware not there then bought non-Apple with the Hack. I practice what I say when if apple product’s don’t work for you buy an alternative. They do exist.

at the moment I may not even buy a replacement iPad as looking at the Mini which not much smaller then the 9.7” Pro tnat have and then not that much a drop in size to the biggest iPhone and saves having two devices so not keeping the smaller phone sizes going to cost Apple an iPad sale their. 6.7 for phone vs 8.3 on iPad mini.

and I use a Samsung galaxy everyday for work along with a windows laptop so I do use both and it doesn’t encourage me to get the cheaper option when come to refresh.

previously done the build own pc, select the components, even used to do the overclocking and use win95/98 lite to strip the OS down for games performance so fully appreciate that people may want that level of control, and in those days couldn’t have paid me use Apple Mac rather then a PC. You have the framework laptops out there now where can spec, build upgrade to hearts content which are popular, I even found out about those through the macrumors forum.

our office was being badgered by Dell as laptops due replacement. I Offered to get them to stop And said next time put them through to me.
so next theh phoned then listened to him and he asked me my requirement and I said the laptop to have a 9 pin serial port. We were an IT solutions procider and network kit all had 9 pin console ports. So was something that used everyday on customer site.
dell didn’t sell laptops with serial ports which I knew already and couldn resist that HP had one when he told me Never phoned us again.

i still carry a usb serial adaptor with me for work. There is no laptop out there that can specify a built in serial port. Not even framework have such a module And yes there were people asking for them in the community. Even framework said not happening.

i include the story as it shows that people need to think of their requirements and then find a product that meets them best. People may not find one that meets ALL the requirements and so have to make decisions on which ones more important. I cannot find a product that meets all my needs for a work laptop So have to make a trade off.

now if google went closed system with android and stopped the data hoovering/sharing and had the level of integration that Apples range have then would have no problem buying android. But at that point I wouldn’t be buying an Android system, i would be still effectively be buying an iPhone at that point as Android changed 180 to meet my requirements and essentially become iOS with different look and feel.

 

[coolfactor]

I just watched the speech by Merrick Garland, Attorney General, and he could not be wrong in so many ways. This should be grounds for Apple suing them for misinformation that severely damages their brand.

What an embarrassing statement by the US government. Will they publicly apologize when they are educated with the truth?

Apple doesn't diminish other products. Total nonsense.

I think the US doesn't want to be outgunned by the EU. It's a battle of governments, and Apple is the ping pong ball.