Apple Sued by U.S. Department of Justice, Says Lawsuit is 'Wrong'

[mejsric]

wow. 2024. the year of bad luck for Apple.

its a good luck and Apple didnt realize it yet.
Making iPhone open like Android will kill Androids, there is no more reason why you will buy Android.

 

[Ctrlos]

So don't buy an iPhone. You're not entitled to buy a Toyota and use their infotainment and navigation system on a Ford. For that, you have to buy a Ford. It's not anti-competitive, it's just that you chose poorly.

I’ve got over 2Tb of data stored in iCloud Drive I’d need access to if I changed handsets. Downloading it and moving it all manually is not an option. iCloud should work on Android in the exact same way OneDrive and Google work on the iPhone. iPhone props up Apples services; opening up new revenue streams makes them a much safer business model.

The car analogy is flawed because we are talking about a different product. Its more like Toyota locking the boot and telling me my luggage is incompatible with a new Ford.

 

[Richard8655]

Greed, stock price pressures, and comfortable arrogance drove this over the last many years. I think govt has a role in making sure the marketplace is fair and competitive.

 

[ender78]

Anyone against this should explain - in detail - why choice is not good.

At the end of the day, everything the EU and now the DoJ are doing is all about consumer choice. I should be able to do what I want, when I want, with my purchased hardware.

Giving consumers choice over mobile OSes, let’s say 5 of them, would force developers to have to spend more time and effort in having to cater to those five. This would/could lead to fragmentation. Consumer choice has a cost, that cost is born by the cconsumer.

 

[gigapocket1]

I really don’t care about half the stuff they are trying to regulate. Like iMessage… plenty of apps/alternatives… I personally probably won’t use another App Store…
But if they would like to investigate Apple iCloud prices and open up the ability for me to backup to my nas. I would be game for that

 

[coolfactor]

is Mac malware-ridden piece of crap?

The App Store is not a barrier for developers. Developer pay $99/year for access to developer tools. They pay nothing to sell their app. Only after their app sells is a commission taken. It's not a closed market.

I agree that Apple needs to lower the commission rate, but the model overall is not the problem.

 

[Ctrlos]

Giving consumers choice over mobile OSes, let’s say 5 of them, would force developers to have to spend more time and effort in having to cater to those five. This would/could lead to fragmentation. Consumer choice has a cost, that cost is born by the cconsumer.

Counter point: If I buy a new PC and install Linux on it my Steam library works just fine,

it also works across Windows, Mac and SteamOS. This is incredibly beneficial to the consumer because they have a lot of choice over which device to buy to play their games on.

 

[antiprotest]

Now if Apple loses, Apple is punished. If Apple wins, is the DOJ punished? Or do they just walk away and try again later? Doesn't seem fair if that's the case. But even if the DOJ has to pay Apple or the costs, it's not even their money -- it's our money. Wait, if Apple has to pay, it's also money that they got from us, and they will find some way to get it back from us again. Whoever wins, we are going to pay for it, and neither of them is going to pay us anything.

 

[coolfactor]

Anyone against this should explain - in detail - why choice is not good.

At the end of the day, everything the EU and now the DoJ are doing is all about consumer choice. I should be able to do what I want, when I want, with my purchased hardware.

What's wrong with this? They're not shoving anything down your throat. If you want to stick to the garden, you can do that.

You can do what you want with your purchased HARDWARE. But Apple has never hidden the fact that they provide HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE together.

Your microwave runs software. Do you want to install your own?

Consumers have always had choice.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

How about this. I use iPhone, and I use iCloud. I love the calendars. But why does Apple make it a huge PIA to sync my iCloud calendar to Linux? CalDav, which is what iCloud uses, is an open standard. However, Apple does not support Linux and therefore they do not release an application for syncing as they do on Windows. But still...CalDav is an open standard. If you hunt the web you can figure out how to sink calendars to a platform other than what Apple supports officially. Why do they not document how they use this OPEN STANDARD so that this is easy? I already own a Mac, and I really do not like Windows, I prefer Linux. I consider this to be shady and probably illegal behavior on Apple's part. They use an open standard yet refuse to support users not using MacOS or Windows by simply publishing the open steps that can be used to authenticate their calendars.

Even on Windows, you should not need an application to be installed for a service that is using an open standard. Apple is abusing their customers. And I love Apple products.

 

[avkills]

Does your crappy BMW experience cause the experience of other drivers on the road to be sh**ty? If it did then the government should come and regulate BMW. That's what Apple is doing.

Yes, yes it does....🤣

 

[bgillander]

IBM and everyone else had just seen the anti-trust nightmare AT&T went through and didn't want to take the same path. This is the first post that even mentions the AT&T anti-trust case. Proves you are all ignorant.

Edit: Please see my previous posts for the discussion of my Apple style IBM "App Store" alternate universe which are proof Apple App Stores violate anti-trust law.

It isn't polite to call people ignorant, just because they don't mention something, as it doesn't mean they are not aware of it. It would be like me calling you ignorant for not mentioning that IBM had a much larger reason to worry about anti-trust than the AT&T case:

The Ghosts of Antitrust Past: Part 2 (IBM)

The Department of Justice began its antitrust case against IBM on January 17, 1969. The DOJ sued under the Sherman Antitrust Act, claiming IBM tried to monopolize the market for “general-purpose digital computers.” The case lasted almost thirteen years, ending on January 8, 1982 when Assistant...

truthonthemarket.com

 

[transpo1]

A userbase of 1.5bn devices is an infrastructure and not just another handset. If you had to buy a new TV, refrigerator and lighting system just because you wanted to change electricity suppliers you’d be livid at the idea. What if your car could only drive on certain roads and couldn’t use other ones? Can’t buy a new house in a different neighbourhood because your furniture isn’t compatible?

Whilst it’s true we choose to live in Apple’s walled garden it can sometimes feel like a prison. The daft thing is if Apple did make things like iCloud and the Watch compatible with Android they’d likely open up new revenue streams and the increased competition would only yield better products which is better for everyone.

Who's responsible for choosing Apple when you could have gone with another vendor, such as Android? You are. You have choices. You just want those choices to be easy with no consequences. By and large, the general public has voted with their money by choosing to buy those 1.5 billion devices. Since Apple devices continue to sell quite well, I don't see that changing anytime soon. Consumers reject your argument overwhelmingly.

 

[ender78]

I’ve got over 2Tb of data stored in iCloud Drive I’d need access to if I changed handsets. Downloading it and moving it all manually is not an option. iCloud should work on Android in the exact same way OneDrive and Google work on the iPhone. iPhone props up Apples services; opening up new revenue streams makes them a much safer business model.

Are you suggesting that there is 100% feature parity for Ms365 and Google Suite across Linux/Windows/MacOS?

 

[Ctrlos]

Now if Apple loses, Apple is punished. If Apple wins, is the DOJ punished? Or do they just walk away and try again later? Doesn't seem fair if that's the case. But even if the DOJ has to pay Apple or the costs, it's not even their money -- it's our money. Wait, if Apple has to pay, it's also money that they got from us, and they will find some way to get it back from us again. Whoever wins, we are going to pay for it, and neither of them is going to pay us anything.

We all win if they do because we get more choice, I like that I have the option of dozens of TV sets for my Apple TV. I can also choose from lots of different gaming controllers that work on other devices making them better value to me as a customer. Choice breeds competition, driving companies to fight to stand out and not become complacent.

If Apple are forced to, for example make the Watch compatible with Android handsets how is this anything other than a huge new market for them and a great new option for Android owners? And conversely when was the last time the Watch got a meaningful hardware refresh?

 

[Ctrlos]

Are you suggesting that there is 100% feature parity for Ms365 and Google Suite across Linux/Windows/MacOS?

No, but there should be.

 

[Muzzakus]

Common emulators and diverse CarPlay apps!

 

[Ctrlos]

Who's responsible for choosing Apple when you could have gone with another vendor, such as Android? You are. You have choices. You just want those choices to be easy with no consequences. By and large, the general public has voted with their money by choosing to buy those 1.5 billion devices. Since Apple devices continue to sell quite well, I don't see that changing anytime soon. Consumers reject your argument overwhelmingly.

This is an infrastructure arguement akin to saying that if you don’t like living in one country you should just pack up and move somewhere else when we all know that doing that is not an easy option.

I can’t move to Android. All my data is in iCloud. I cannot just download my MP3s from iTunes to an Android phone, All my documents are in Pages. My external drives are all APFS. All my medical and health data is in Health and my Apple Watch. I need instant copy and paste between iOS and iPad.

 

[transpo1]

That's not the best comparison because you could in fact grab a toyota infotainment system and stuff it in a ford. As long as you supply the right amount of power, it'll turn on... and probably to some degree work. If you produced an adapter, it'd probably work.

Most cars work that way. That's how you can buy an alpine unit and some random PAC dongles and plug it in and it all just works.

My goodness, how long have you been around?

I don't think your twist on the comparison makes the point you think it does. "It'll turn on...and probably to some degree work."

Just like iCloud on Android, Apple Music on Android/Windows, or in reverse; third party apps such as Signal or WhatsApp on iPhone....

They all work. They just don't work the way maybe you want them to. Which is your preference but it is not your right.

So how long have you been around?

 

[Aidyn's X]

Why isn’t the government going after the actual monopolies like cell carriers, cable, internet, and electricity providers?

 

[Ctrlos]

You seriously think the Government should be in the business of telling companies how their products should work? So, everytime a new phone manufacturer releases a new phone, or an alternate OS is released and updated, you're asking the Government to force Apple to make all their devices compatible with all other devices?

I get that many people like to fantasize; but have you really thought this position through?

Yes.

Without cross-border co-operation of governments we wouldn’t have had the European standard of GSM for mobile roaming.

 

[webkit]

Just because Microsoft's killed their smart phone does not mean Apple is a Monopoly!

What Microsoft did to its smartphone business is irrelevant.

This is about the mobile OS market of which there are only two major players (iOS and Android). Apple has a dominant position in that market with over 60% share in the U.S. and is restricting choice and competition in areas like app access, payment systems, browser engines, etc.

 

[transpo1]

This is an infrastructure arguement akin to saying that if you don’t like living in one country you should just pack up and move somewhere else when we all know that doing that is not an easy option.

I can’t move to Android. All my data is in iCloud. I cannot just download my MP3s from iTunes to an Android phone, All my documents are in Pages. My external drives are all APFS. All my medical and health data is in Health and my Apple Watch. I need instant copy and paste between iOS and iPad.

Sorry, but this is simply not true. You can access your iCloud data on Chrome. You can import purchased AACs from iTunes onto Android. You can export your Pages documents to Word .docx format or PDF. You can even export your health data to XML format. Nobody is preventing you from obtaining your data. But they're under no obligation to make it super easy for you either.

 

[Ctrlos]

Yes. You can. And comparing moving phone platforms to moving to a new country is hyperbole.

You don't want to move to a new platform. You could if you wanted to. Trying to argue that you simply can't weakens any argument you're trying to make.

So what you’re saying is that it’s perfectly acceptable to:
- Buy a whole new suite of applications from scratch
- Have to copy copious amounts of data across multiple hard disks just to format them correctly
- Buy a whole new computer
- Buy a whole new smartwatch
- Buy a whole new TV box
- Spend the better part of a month manually typing out new data into who knows what app
Just so I can kid myself I have a choice about buying an Android phone?!

 

[webkit]

It’s not a monopoly if consumers can choose another operating system.

Microsoft was ruled a monopoly in computer operating systems in 1999 despite the fact the consumers could choose other operating systems like Mac OS, OS/2, Linux, BeOS, etc.