Apple Sued by U.S. Department of Justice, Says Lawsuit is 'Wrong'

[Richard8655]

The argument is a JOKE. EPIC lost trying to prove Apple was running an illegal monopoly with their store.
Trying to explain why Green bubbles is harming anyone is absolutely absurd. And anyone that remembers when we started with just SMS and MMS, the bubble was green. Did Apple break MMS or SMS to hamper what Android users see? Nope. It is as it was. So what exactly is the harm? To whom? You're accusing Apple of making people think Green is bad and blue is good. Also ignoring alternative messengers that exist on both platforms.

This will go to the SCOTUS and fail 6-3. Again, they can argue the Watch and NFC/Wallets access. After that, these charges fail.

Add Apple Pay monopoly and grainy video from outside platforms. But I agree the SC will likely quash this (whether it merits that or not).

 

[developer13245]

It isn't polite to call people ignorant, just because they don't mention something, as it doesn't mean they are not aware of it. It would be like me calling you ignorant for not mentioning that IBM had a much larger reason to worry about anti-trust than the AT&T case:

The Ghosts of Antitrust Past: Part 2 (IBM)

The Department of Justice began its antitrust case against IBM on January 17, 1969. The DOJ sued under the Sherman Antitrust Act, claiming IBM tried to monopolize the market for “general-purpose digital computers.” The case lasted almost thirteen years, ending on January 8, 1982 when Assistant...

truthonthemarket.com

Sorry, I was speaking to those who were commenting that are clearly ignorant of history.

My "alternate reality" captive IBM PC "App Store" is a clear example of how Apple's current actions run afoul of anti-trust law. IBM could have done the exact things back when they created the IBM PC but they did not due to the obvious anti-trust issues.

 

[Beautyspin]

I linked to it on the Verge who posted the direct quote from Federighi. You can find it lots of other places.

So, what? You think the court is going to throw the case out of the court because the AG paraphrased what the Federighi said by using a different set of words? Don't you think you are reaching?

 

[alchemistmuffin]

Just like how MS shutdown in the 90s. Oh wait…

Microsoft caved. Apple isn’t going to. Remember the Book Store case? Google and others caved, Apple fought to the bitter end to protect Steve Jobs legacy. Apple will do the same here. And if they lose, they’ll likely just end the company this time to protect Steve’s legacy.

 

[Jetscreamer]

I am definitely going to lose sleep and appetite over what the DOJ is doing to my beloved company. I am taking my pitchfork and torch out of storage and marching to DOJ HQ to protest. Who’s with me?

 

[visualseed]

If the DOJ wins, then apple isn't allowed to nickel and dime you on every purchase you make using an iDevice. That's good news, because then you can pressure the services you use to charge less $$ for them.

Pulling an example out of my ass here, you can easily get 1TB of MS onedrive (with ms office) for like $50 a year. Easily. People are getting fleeced buying stuff from their iOS device and never checking the alternatives.

I get MS Office and OneDrive even easier by buying it on my iPhone through the AppStore and I don't pay a premium for it either.

 

[truthsteve]

No.We.Are.Not.

you and your wife aren't, many are.

 

[truthsteve]

They were FORCED to leave the app store. C'mon man. You are grasping for straws here.

> knowingly breaks App Store rule
> banned

oh!!! Epic has been *forced* to leave the store! blame Apple!

come on, you can't be serious. 🤦‍♂️

 

[ender78]

You're misunderstanding what I mean, I think Apple should operate the App Store essentially at cost given how important the iPhone is today. If Apple wasn't one of the largest and most important tech companies in the world, sure, charge whatever they want. However so long as they are that big and important they should be required to operate their gatekeeping services in what amount to FRAND terms.

And that FRAND commission could be found to be 14.99% The only money that Apple gets from me is subscriptions to their services and a small number of Apps. 90% of the Apps on my phone are free. That 15-30% commision subsidizes the millions of free apps. It shouldn’t be illegal to have multiple revenue sources; hardware, services, and a commission structure for in app purchases.

 

[Beautyspin]

What the heck is High Performance smart phones? The numbers of marketshare seem to keep going up and up for Apple in the US. First greater than 50, then 60, now up to 70. But in a specific segment. More expensive segment.
So, people with money prefer iPhones? That's all I get from that. While there are plenty of less expensive phones out there. If that is there angle, good luck DOJ.

EPIC tried and failed. Let's see them make something more of it.

They're going to do this by looking at the contracts that they have with developers and others. All those fine exclusionary clauses that Apple had added thinking that they were being clever, will come to bite them in the ass now.

That is funny. Because they stuck with SMS and MMS as a default messaging protocol between them. Instead of what? Picking Googles many messaging app standards? Or one day using RCS? Which they already agreed to do.

They used to be all green.



Green bubbles in court. I can't wait for this to be televised where the color of text bubbles is evidence of limiting functionality.

This is what they will want to prove. Easy Peasy.

Merrick Garland: And, as any iPhone user who has ever seen a green text message, or received a tiny, grainy video can attest — Apple's anticompetitive conduct also includes making it more difficult for iPhone users to message with users of non-Apple products.

It does this by diminishing the functionality of its own messaging app and by diminishing the functionality of third-party messaging apps.

By doing so, Apple knowingly and deliberately degrades quality, privacy, and security for its users.

For example, if an iPhone user messages a non-iPhone user in Apple Messages, the text appears not only as a green bubble, but incorporates limited functionality:

• The conversation is not encrypted;
• Videos are pixelated and grainy; and
• Users cannot edit messages or see typing indicators.

As a result, iPhone users perceive rival smartphones as being lower quality because the experience of messaging friends and family who do not own iPhones is worse — even though Apple is the one responsible for breaking cross-platform messaging.

And it does so intentionally.

 

[djphat2000]

Add Apple Pay monopoly and grainy video from outside platforms. But I agree the SC will likely quash this (whether it merits that or not).

Need to pick the battles. Know your audience.
The video and pictures thing is still a joke argument. Why should Apple fix SMS and MMS for everyone else? They solved it with iMessage. Others solved it with their application(s). Free market at work folks.

 

[truthsteve]

I see you ignored the rest of the argument.

if your topic sentence is incorrect, it renders the rest your post erroneous.

 

[spcopsmac21]

you and your wife aren't, many are.

When you do $1,800,000 in revenue off apps a year and get to keep 20% of that… and this is before taxes.
Not even equating costs and paying employees. That 20% that’s left still has to have taxes taken from it.
Something is terribly wrong.

The model is broken for small developers. Incredibly broken.

 

[ender78]

Move out of the US if you don't like their laws, like come on

Or be forced to have to leave the state to make medical decisions. Governments do many things that are bad for their residents. Voting with your feet to get out of a jurisdiction that doesn’t meet your views is a viable option.

 

[truthsteve]

but about Apple's "Karen" policies in not approving Apps that Apple does not like for one reason or another,

I think Apple can be "Karen" about not allowing porn apps on the App Store. It's their store.

it is about not being consistent with guidelines for App Approvals, it is about not consistently enforcing the rules they publish.

No human team can ever be consistent on a large scale of reviews. This is why we had multiple people grade standardized exams when it comes to writing paragraphs.

It is about Apple acting like a spoiled child most of the time.

subjective. disagreed.

 

[truthsteve]

Except it doesn't 🙄

except it does 🙄

 

[spcopsmac21]

except it does 🙄

Except what were we talking about

 

[pugxiwawa]

Huh? I use WhatsApp almost exclusively now on my iPhone. Not by choice, but becuase that's all anyone uses where I live. The WhatsApp app is active in just the same way that iMessage is active; or at least I've never seen a single difference in how the two work. As for FaceTime, what? I have no idea what that means. But I use video call on WhatsApp without any problems.

But what does this have to do with Green Bubbles? Nothing.

WhatsApp is not using SMS. Goes back to the whole issue of green vs blue bubble. Had WhatsApp being able to access to same SMA functionality as Apple, you could completely rely on WhatsApp going forward as only messaging app, and won’t be missing SMS function. you would then be able to freely move between Apple and Android and not be tied to Apple wall garden

 

[Beautyspin]

Ok, you seem to not understand references from one stack to another as I was describing. Apple's service, iMessage client, Android and iOS platforms.

The actual quote from the Apple executive was in regards to developing iMessage to release on Google's platform. The DOJ is claiming that they didn't want to allow interoperability between two platforms, as if they willingly blocked a standard.

You can check the video. It does not mean what you said.

 

[djphat2000]

They're going to do this by looking at the contracts that they have with developers and others. All those fine exclusionary clauses that Apple had added thinking that they were being clever, will come to bite them in the ass now.



This is what they will want to prove. Easy Peasy.

Merrick Garland: And, as any iPhone user who has ever seen a green text message, or received a tiny, grainy video can attest — Apple's anticompetitive conduct also includes making it more difficult for iPhone users to message with users of non-Apple products.

I have never had an issue messaging Android users. Any place on planet earth. Even those aboard a ship in the middle of the ocean.

It does this by diminishing the functionality of its own messaging app and by diminishing the functionality of third-party messaging apps.

What nonsense is this. The limit is the protocol that has existed since texting existed. Which Apple didn't invent. SMS and MMS are standards that anyone can use. They didn't break it to make it worse for Android users.

By doing so, Apple knowingly and deliberately degrades quality, privacy, and security for its users.

By using a preexisting standard? They will LOSE this argument if they try as written. They better have something better than this at court.

For example, if an iPhone user messages a non-iPhone user in Apple Messages, the text appears not only as a green bubble, but incorporates limited functionality:

• The conversation is not encrypted;
• Videos are pixelated and grainy; and
• Users cannot edit messages or see typing indicators.

This is a standard of SMS. It's using a common protocol to communicate with other platfoms so the message gets through. The problem they have is that the same program isn't available on Android. Which I go back to my games analogy and state developers don't have to develop their games for Apple. Why does Apple have to develop for other platforms?

As a result, iPhone users perceive rival smartphones as being lower quality because the experience of messaging friends and family who do not own iPhones is worse — even though Apple is the one responsible for breaking cross-platform messaging.

And it does so intentionally.

This is not provable and isn't criminal in any way. Apple is not in control of what people think. People are in control of themselves.

I can't....

 

[truthsteve]

When you do $1,800,000 in revenue off apps a year and get to keep 20% of that… and this is before taxes.

And? Many are fine with the cut. You and your wife aren't.

 

[truthsteve]

Except what were we talking about

no clue what you're trying to say in that sentence. going to move on.

 

[ender78]

No, but there should be.

And who pays for that interop, we do. Like is an endless series of compromises.

 

[Beautyspin]

If we elect Trump does this lawsuit go away? What a thing to run on.

I doubt it. He started it in 2019.

 

[truthsteve]

So what you’re saying is that it’s perfectly acceptable to:
- Buy a whole new suite of applications from scratch
- Have to copy copious amounts of data across multiple hard disks just to format them correctly
- Buy a whole new computer
- Buy a whole new smartwatch
- Buy a whole new TV box
- Spend the better part of a month manually typing out new data into who knows what app
Just so I can kid myself I have a choice about buying an Android phone?!

so what you'er saying is that it's perfectly acceptable to:
- Buy a whole new suite of games from scratch
- Buy new storage
- Buy a whole new video game console
- Buy new controllers
- Buy an online pass to play online
- Spend the better part of a month manually typing out new data into who knows what app from a stick controller
Just so that I can kid myself I have a choice about playing a new platform exclusive game!?

wait, most of that has been happening before the iPhone existed and is still happening.