Apple Sued by U.S. Department of Justice, Says Lawsuit is 'Wrong'

[truthsteve]

What nonsense is this. The limit is the protocol that has existed since texting existed. Which Apple didn't invent. SMS and MMS are standards that anyone can use. They didn't break it to make it worse for Android users.

it's incredible to see how many people are blaming apple for low res MMS pictures.

just because Android adopted a protocol doesn't mean Apple should do the same.

imagine if the industry continued to adopt Flash on mobile and the gov ordered Apple to adopt Flash because it broke too many websites. what a terrible mistake that would have been. but now we're on the same path with this lawsuit.

 

[1129846]

if your topic sentence is incorrect, it renders the rest your post erroneous.

Fine lets correct this and go to where you argument was wrong to begin with since your first statement was wrong.
What I see is basically you could not address the rest of it so you avoid it and pretend like it is not there.

you said

except when they leave and paying customers need to download a new store to continue using the app they bought

you're completely misunderstanding this.

If your App leaves the app store it is YOUR CHOICE to follow to the 3rd party app store to keep using it. It is your choice to leave app. Just because an App choose to leave does not mean you have to follow. You can choose either to give up the app or leave.

It is your choice just like it is the developer choice to either support iOS or not.

So how again does it affect your "security" if the app you like leaves the app store and you choose not to follow. It is 100% your choice.

 

[JapanApple]

So, this is what people come here to read about? These articles are all over the news. people love these too see the downfall of Apple. when there are almost every 2 articles about topic its redundant

 

[truthsteve]

If your App leaves the app store it is YOUR CHOICE to follow to the 3rd party app store to keep using it

you already invested money for the app and there was no warning of the app will move on to a new store.

developers were well aware of the limitations before signing up so they had a well informed decision to make before investing their money into it.

big difference here.

 

[Tyler O'Bannon]

All Apple needs to do is allow iOS devices to be computers. Like the Mac, let me install software I want, even if Apple doesn’t like the content.

The simplest concept in the world but people don’t get it.

I’ve been a colossal nerd all my life. Went all Apple in 2008 with iPhone 3G and Alikinum unibody MacBook. Never looked back but the message of security and privacy has been ridiculous.

It’s very evident that it benefits Apple to have the system closed. Open it up and only people who want to do that have to. If apps abandon Apple and only offer directly from website or through other app stores, then that tells you apples App Store (up to now the only game in town) isn’t the best.

Let the hate begin but I don’t care. The people on the other side of the fence have a very brainwashed by good marketing sound to them anyway, have for a decade and a half.

 

[1129846]

well if you follow this logic, then what you said "developers are forced to use a single one" is not true. it is THEIR CHOICE to use the App Store. they were never forced.

see how that works?

Got it. You have no counter and instead just going to avoid dealing with it. You did not address the fact them choosing leave the app store does not affect you. You can either follow or not have your app. Your choice. Like you said they can choose to what they want.

But then we get back to the fact no one is FORCING you to stay in this country with the laws. You are an adult free to leave and move. All the foundation argument you are giving are logistical problems. You can choose to leave and start over. Completely your choice.

but you just said " because developers are forced to use a single one."



now you you're saying it's a developer choice. you literally gave up on your original argument 🤣

I didnt give it up. I just saw you twist words and avoid the main part as that was not the point of the argument.
NOw you care to address the main one again and explain how it affects you if they choose to leave. Fully their choice just like your choice to follow.

 

[truthsteve]

Got it. You have no counter

actually I updated my post:

you already invested money for the app and there was no warning of the app will move on to a new store.

developers were well aware of the limitations before signing up so they had a well informed decision to make before investing their money into it.

big difference here.

there goes your argument.

 

[macjoshua]

The simplest concept in the world but people don’t get it.

I’ve been a colossal nerd all my life. Went all Apple in 2008 with iPhone 3G and Alikinum unibody MacBook. Never looked back but the message of security and privacy has been ridiculous.

It’s very evident that it benefits Apple to have the system closed. Open it up and only people who want to do that have to. If apps abandon Apple and only offer directly from website or through other app stores, then that tells you apples App Store (up to now the only game in town) isn’t the best.

Let the hate begin but I don’t care. The people on the other side of the fence have a very brainwashed by good marketing sound to them anyway, have for a decade and a half.

That's all fine and well for you, but many, many iPhone users will be vulnerable to all sorts of malware and problems. If they're forced to open things up, I sure hope Apple gives me a way to prevent my parents and in-laws from installing anything from outside the App Store, because I don't want to be tech support for family members who clicked something in a browser and it installed some malware app and now nothing on their phone works.

 

[truthsteve]

It’s very evident that it benefits Apple to have the system closed.

it benefits users too

 

[Beautyspin]

Why America says Apple is a monopoly | CNN Business

“Buy your mom an iPhone,” Apple CEO Tim Cook said at a 2022 conference, when a reporter said her mother couldn’t see the videos she texted to her mom’s Android phone.

www.cnn.com

By what they state publicly. I personally don't think they will get much past the Watch and NFC/Wallets.

And nothing, nothing would be funnier to watch. Then Merrick Garland argue to the SCOTUS about Green bubbles damaging innovation and locking users into the ecosystem. The horrors of bad picture and video quality across platforms. 😂

Well, they are going to look at the contracts that Apple has with all developers and see if there are any exclusionary clauses. I am sure at least some developers will come forward, if that is the case. This is apart from technical barriers that they put up.

 

[AF_APPLETALK]

Nice try, but everyone is entitled to an opinion here, developer or not. End users are the customers of developers and decide what apps sell and which don't sell; so actually, we have just as much right (or more) to an opinion.

And by the way, from what I've seen represented on these forums, consumers are going to hate these changes.

Most of you don't have an opinion, you have a chronic case of Stockholm syndrome. Things could be SO MUCH BETTER if Apple did the right thing. We know they can!

Consumers don't seem to get that the iOS platform is a lot less attractive and useful without us. We've been eating sh-t for so long that you guys don't think it's a big deal. It is. Apple has been burning developer goodwill, to the point where no one bothered targeting Vision Pro, and all the apps they have available for it are basically just iPad apps in a window. It should serve as both a public embarrassment, as well as a warning shot to both Apple and consumers that the situation is (long) untenable.

You may not be aware that there's some VERY LOUD developer voices speaking out about all these problems, and if it doesn't change, it's going to put Apple back where they were in 2001... begging developers to even bother to build applications for their platforms. I don't want to see that happen, and I'm hoping that change happens.

 

[truthsteve]

When their solution for the lack of competition for the app store is that Android exists it's clear to me and others they have no idea what they are talking about.

no, it's clear you're not understanding this.

I buy a Playstation over Xbox. That's competition on the video game software market. And who controls all Playstation software that's approved to run on the system (and who takes a cut on all software sold for playstation)? Sony. Similarly I buy an iPhone over Android. That's competition over the mobile software market.

 

[1129846]

actually I updated my post:

you already invested money for the app and there was no warning of the app will move on to a new store.

So you dont get any updates any more. Same thing is if a developer says they are done and pulls the app no differnces.
We are back to you can choose to follow or not get updates.

developers were well aware of the limitations before signing up so they had a well informed decision to make before investing their money into it.

Times change. Back to your first argument flaw so this does not matter.

big difference here.

No it is not. Your first argument is flawed rest does not matter

there goes your argument.

Nope still fully applies. As your starting principle is flawed and wrong. Apple can choose to keep the last version they put out on the store for you to get if you downloaded it before hand.

So yet again you failed to address the start part. 3rd party App stores don't affect you if you choose not to use them. If an App leaves the main app store well then you have a choice to make but again we are back to you can choose to use a 3rd party app store or not.
The standard argument they choose to put it in the app store. Well their are a lot of apps that could be main that never would be in the app store to begin with so we are back to IT DOES NOT AFFECT YOU.

 

[Beautyspin]

I do agree with you on that. they do a lot of milking/squeezing.

but idk at the same time they made their platforms and want them run a certain way.

I just hope whatever changes come don’t make our experiences worse.

Everyone makes their own platform/product/ecosystem. So, let us take down all the departments of the government because everyone has a right to how they can run their platform/product/ecosystem. /s

 

[powerslave65]

You want proof at how well Apple protects our privacy? This lawsuit should be plenty of proof. The Justice dept and various litigious states so desperately want to be inside Apple’s walled garden accessing all of your information anytime, anywhere that they don’t care if other companies get your information as well. Apparently privacy is anti-competitive now. GMAFB

 

[truthsteve]

So you dont get any updates any more.

And the app will no longer work when the developer updates the backend. The person who bought the app right before the switch couldn't even use it at all and there was no warning of this. Meanwhile developers had clear warning of limitations. Lol bad argument.

Times change.

This doesn't mean anything in this argument. At all.

No it is not.

yes it does.

 

[Beautyspin]

It's actually shocking how many people on this forum -- an Apple fan forum -- who are absolutely okay with an overreaching, overbearing, intrusive government demanding control over a company's IP and dictating its business model. There is a very dark, disturbing veil of totalitarianism descending on a once free country.

I wish this were the only example...

It is the job of a government to be overreaching, overbearing, intrusive, because that is the nature of law-making. They're not demanding control over the IP. However, they are definitely in the business of controlling the business model, if that flouts any laws. That is basically the only reason this particular department exists.

So, you want corporations to run the country rather than democratically elected governments? Not sure how to respond to this?

 

[Beautyspin]

So that’s Japan, the EU, the UK, China and now the US that Apple needs to pull out of.

Think India is still ok or are we wanting to pull of of there too due to them forcing Apple to open factories?

I believe even the UK has something similar to the DMA.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-antitrust-regulator-wins-appeal-over-apple-probe-2023-11-30/

Apple targeted in App Store antitrust damages suit that's seeking $1BN+ for UK developers | TechCrunch

A class-action damages claim is being brought against Apple on behalf of UK-based developers over its "anticompetitive" 30% fee on in-app sales.

techcrunch.com

 

[macjoshua]

I really don't care if Apple opens things (though I fear it for a huge portion of the population who are going to have their phones hijacked by software they thought looked legit). There is not a single app from any developer I would download from outside of the App Store, so it won't affect me much either way.

What I hate is the government telling a company how it has to run its business model when there are alternatives in the marketplace. Maybe Apple should give people the option to install Android and direct people to Google support if they have problems.

 

[Blue Sun]

I don't understand this. It's Apple's store, they created the iPhone, they created the App Store. If you want in, you need to pretty up and pay the premium. The same goes for developers. If you want to sell your product on the App Store, which belongs to Apple, you need to pay their fee. Is the fee a bit steep? Probably, but that's Apple's prerogative.

 

[macjoshua]

So, you want corporations to run the country rather than democratically elected governments? Not sure how to respond to this?

Have you seen some of the morons this country elects?

 

[truthsteve]

I don't understand this. It's Apple's store, they created the iPhone, they created the App Store. If you want in, you need to pretty up and pay the premium. The same goes for developers. If you want to sell your product on the App Store, which belongs to Apple, you need to pay their fee. Is the fee a bit steep? Probably, but that's Apple's prerogative.

yep agreed. and developers were fully aware of the limits when signing up. if it's too much, simply don't write iOS apps.

 

[black_knight]

You want proof at how well Apple protects our privacy? This lawsuit should be plenty of proof. The Justice dept and various litigious states so desperately want to be inside Apple’s walled garden accessing all of your information anytime, anywhere that they don’t care if other companies get your information as well. Apparently privacy is anti-competitive now. GMAFB

This has got to be one of the primary driving forces behind this lawsuit.

 

[1129846]

And the app will no longer work when the developer updates the backend. The person who bought the app right before the switch couldn't even use it at all and there was no warning of this. Meanwhile developers had clear warning of limitations.

Thank you for proving how little you know about App development. Also no different if they shut it down right after they bought it.

So what I see in all that is someone is just being selfish and wants their app bought and supported forever.
So yet again you failed to address it but keep trying and showing you have no counter to it.

Lol bad argument.

You are right. Your argument is bad.

 

[DustinDev47]

Great, Apple's borders have become yet another border that the Biden administration seeks to uncork.

Would Apple's alleged acts/omissions be violative of the law if they were instead committed by a small, unsuccessful startup?