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Firstly, I like Apple and have many friends who work there at corporate.

That said, they do act in an anti-competitive walled garden manner which severely limits owners of Apple products

IPads, iPhones and other devices ought to allow third party installed software. The restriction was done to make the Apple ecosystem the only way to buy, pay and manage content/applications. It’s been used ro consor as well.

It’s widely time to treat these devices the same as Mac computers, hell their power is much greater than what computers used to have.
Which only works if YOU choose to go into the ecosystem.

i know it is sacrilege to even infer it but there are alternatives to buying iPhones and iPads, even if you use a Mac.

what is it that stops YOU buying the alternatives.
 
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If Steve Jobs was alive today, he would’ve used every single amount of his personal money to defend Apple and his name.

DOJ is doing the wrong thing. Suing Apple will destroy the US tech industry in the long run.

If Apple loses, Apple will likely shut down in retaliation. See how that will destroy US tech industry.
Microsoft lost their last major antitrust battle and it helped both the tech industry and, in the long run, MS too - it is now the most valuable company in the world

And your sky is falling rhetoric is just silly, Apple is neither shutting down nor the linchpin of the US tech industry. Chill out
 
preventing apps from sending push notifications asking users to subscribe...
don't know why you're bringing that up. You were the one bringing up apple asking to subscribe or whatever which has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

all I point out was a guideline for third party apps from the human interface guidelines which you were wrong about.

anyways, moving on.
 
lol at thinking I need to survey "every single developer" to backup a subjective term "many".

should have highlighted "most customers" to really nail me. even then, you don't need survey every single customer to statistically conclude if that's true or not. but too late now.
There have been many public and private developer surveys for app developers. Fees are usually very low on the list of complaints. Apple does surveys too and if fees were a major contention they would have been changed. The pressure on fees almost exclusively comes from big developers and government pressure on the behest of big developers.
 
Based on what I read, the lawsuit is about Apple restrictions related to:

-iMessage on other devices

-NFC/Wallet access to third party

-Game Streaming (which Apple just allowed)

-Other watches integrated with iPhone

These are very weak issues and will be difficult to prove anti-trust.
Actually, they are the easiest to prove. The difficult ones are

  • Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
  • How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
  • In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.
They are not impossible. I have some hope because they took their time to build the case and they have seen how Apple argues against antitrust or monopoly allegations. So, I am assuming they have prepared well.
 
Anyone against this should explain - in detail - why choice is not good.
I want to make my own consumer choices. I don't want the government interfering in this case. The Apple walled garden is a selling point for me - I prefer security and I loath surveillance capitalism. I just stopped using my FitBit because Google was going to require me to have an account with them to save data. (How is that not a monopolistic practice?). I've been using an AW instead and very happy with it.

Apple being successful is not the same thing as being monopolistic. It is not Apple's responsibility to promote other companies' products and services.
 
That is correct. In NONE of these cases has there ever been an actual monopoly -- the last time we had actual monopolies, we were talking about the Bell System and Standard Oil, where they had physical monopolies. These recent (30+ years) anti-trust cases have all been about losers running to complain to the government, demanding that they tear down more successful companies.

Monopoly can have varying definitions in the legal system and doesn't have to mean a company controlling 100% of a market. Microsoft was ruled a monopoly in computer operating systems in 1999 despite there being alternatives like Mac OS, OS/2, Linux, BeOS, etc.
 
Google, Amazon, Meta, Microsoft, Anheuser Busch, ……..

Don’t look for this Apple complaint to be settled anytime within the next five, probably ten years. The companies listed above are all on the government’s hit list.
And long over due.


Anheuser Busch complete screwed over small micro breweris in Texas. A low to allow small breweries to directly sell to customers was killed by Busch by them adding removing one little part of it that block them from using it. They didnt care to directly sell but they wanted to kill the microbrewery market as much as possible. Total beer sells in the USA have dropped. Yet Microbrewery sells have increase. All the loses and them some have come from the big players who make horse piss and call it beer.

While I hate Texas Alcohol disturber law and cartel the one that Anheuser fought to kill was hard press to get that group on board for a small baby step. The Alcohol distrurer cartel is almost as bad as car dealership cartel just they are not as powerful.

/rant
 
What does Biden have to do with this lawsuit? Do you live in a dictatorship. I don't think so. I would hope the Justice Department follows its own rules in the US and does not have to depend on a single individual like Putin Russia
It doesn’t. It is a political entity. It doesn’t have to depend on a single individual but it does answer to a single non-law based ideology as imposed by those at the top.

Just like Clapper and Brennan lying to Congress about the national/worldwide mass data collection and analysis stuff that Snowden, Assange et al exposed, nothing happened to them because they were supporting the extremist surveillance statist ideology.

Apple’s stance on end to end, on device encryption with ADP has made plenty of enemies in the three letter agencies and governments around the world. This is a way to get payback.
 
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It's important to remember that the US government's purpose is actually to help the people. It's easy to forget that because unfortunately not everyone working there is trying to do that, and its purpose is often obfuscated, but that's why it was actually formed the way it was instead of just a monarchy.

Nobody (not even the DOJ) wants to destroy Apple. They're what, the 2nd most valuable company in history?

That is incredibly important to the long-term prospects of the American economy, and I don't think anybody in the American government wants to jeopardize that. What they do want (finally, apparently) is to protect the interests of American consumers, which I personally don't think is a bad thing.

Or should we just allow any level of lock-in from Apple? Hypothetically, say they do release a car, but it was only compatible with one of their new residential properties (or just didn't work well with any normal house), should that be allowed?
 
Man that list is weak. They should have talked to indie app developers and we'd have given them a stronger list.
 
But they went into a dormant state for 15-20 years and experienced little to no growth.
If you're talking market cap, potentially. But the reality is that Microsoft bet on the Enterprise over the consumer world. That's where the money was in the year 2000 through around 2011. Ballmer built 20k+ enterprise products and established entire dedicated services divisions to assist the enterprise. This stopped the progression of competitors in that space which ultimately led to BPOS/O365/M365 dominating with Google being the only "competitor" who has nearly zero experience in the enterprise. The "Cloud first" and "All In On The Cloud" initiatives were just taking root in 2009. At this point, MS still had the culture that they need to own every entry point onto the Internet, PC or mobile. Nadella changed that significantly, which led to where we are now.

So yes, the antitrust stuff had an impact on what Microsoft could do in each market, but they were still a looming behemoth in every office and datacenter.
 
Microsoft lost their last major antitrust battle and is now the most valuable company in the world

And your sky is falling rhetoric is just silly

Exactly. If this goes the way the MS suit did, Apple will be a 40 trillion dollar company in a couple of decades. Also, most people can't even tell you what MS was actually found guilty of. Hint: it wasn't IE bundling.
 
I want to make my own consumer choices. I don't want the government interfering in this case. The Apple walled garden is a selling point for me - I prefer security and I loath surveillance capitalism. I just stopped using my FitBit because Google was going to require me to have an account with them to save data. (How is that not a monopolistic practice?). I've been using an AW instead and very happy with it.

Apple being successful is not the same thing as being monopolistic. It is not Apple's responsibility to promote other companies' products and services.
And here is where your case breaks down. You again can choose not to use said apps or things. None of those things you just complained about have any effect on the walled garden.
Also if the walled garden is required for security then their is some massive fundmental issues with the OS as the walled garden only provides the illusion of security.
 
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Apple has a ~20% share of the US smartphone market (see link). How is that anywhere close to a monopoly when the other 80% of the market is Android? This just sounds silly.

One of my folks once worked for the anti-trust division of the DoJ - I grew up hearing about monopolies, and generally support antitrust efforts - but this makes no sense to me whatsoever.
As an iPhone user, I have no choice - it's the App Store or nothing - the smartphone thing is a red herring. I already have an iPhone, iPad - and I have no choice - hence monopoly. And Apple takes advantage of that.
 
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