Apple Sued by U.S. Department of Justice, Says Lawsuit is 'Wrong'

[aknabi]

The DOJ and the EU are DETERMINED to make your iPhone a malware-ridden piece of crap; as enjoyable to use as a desktop computer from 1998.

No, the DOJ is made of of many brilliant legal minds (and sure a number of bozos, but any review before action will have been looked over by some serious talent)...

We have laws... the DOJ's job is to enforce them and take action when required. Frankly the issue with the DOJ has/is that it doesn't pursue the enforcement of the law with enough rigor, especially with large corporations.

Just because someone doesn't like the law, or it may negatively impact a corporation that they have a shareholder interest in doesn't make enforcement wrong or a bad move.

 

[clayj]

If you're referring to the antitrust case against Microsoft, that would mean Apple was wrong as well since they backed the DoJ's case and provided testimony in it.

That is correct. In NONE of these cases has there ever been an actual monopoly -- the last time we had actual monopolies, we were talking about the Bell System and Standard Oil, where they had physical monopolies. These recent (30+ years) anti-trust cases have all been about losers running to complain to the government, demanding that they tear down more successful companies.

 

[scorpio vega]

the thought of my iPhone working with/similarly to a lagdroid makes my skin crawl.

 

[spazzcat]

Right, because opposing vigorous antitrust and favoring government spending on healthcare and homelessness are two policy positions that famously go together.

It's just one of many places where we waste money that can be better spent.

 

[terraphantm]

Meanwhile, many developers are fine with 15%/30% cut and most customers are fine with a single App Store to find all of their apps.

As usual, gov trying to control someone else's success for no reason. Huge overstep.

Opening it up wouldn’t stop devs and customers from using the App Store exclusively. It would enable the ones who aren’t “fine” with the status quo explore other avenues.

 

[hovscorpion12]

This is Microsoft’s 1980 antitrust all over again. For those who were around then, know MSFT has not been the same since.

 

[mcnallym]

I’m looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

I think Apple should be able to run their App Store how they want, but I also believe Apple shouldn’t have any ability to prevent me from installing applications from outside the App Store.

Well if the lawsuit alleges anti-trust in the smartphone market which is iOS vs Other platforms, app Distribution for the iPhone becomes irrelevant argument. By he time you come to that you already chosen an iPhone over the alternative.

in fact could even argue that the AppStore (according to the EU as being a gatekeeper and limiting application choice) surely makes iPhones LESS competitive against Android in the smartphone market.

so if people choosing iPhones over Android either people happy with the AppStore and app distribution or there is some difference on iPhone that makes people choose it over the Android Smartphones.

 

[jicon]

Is there a legal difference between defend and vigorously defend? Why do people always add vigorously? I assume no one wants to casually defend themselves? Or do they think this adds a note of indignation? If so, why always vigorously instead of some other word?

Exactly. As well, automatic email replies stating 'I'm currently out of the office'. In both cases, useless added word, with multiple syllables.

 

[vertsix]

Anyone against this should explain - in detail - why choice is not good.

At the end of the day, everything the EU and now the DoJ are doing is all about consumer choice. I should be able to do what I want, when I want, with my purchased hardware.

What's wrong with this? They're not shoving anything down your throat. If you want to stick to the garden, you can do that.

 

[VulchR]

Apple has a ~20% share of the US smartphone market (see link) [EDIT: that is world-wide - sorry. Apple's US market share of smartphones is ~40% according to this link. Thanks to 1129846 for pointing this out] . How is that anywhere close to a monopoly when the other 80% [EDIT: actually more like half, but the point stands] of the market is Android? This just sounds silly.

One of my folks once worked for the anti-trust division of the DoJ - I grew up hearing about monopolies, and generally support antitrust efforts - but this makes no sense to me whatsoever.

 

[dannyyankou]

But they went into a dormant state for 15-20 years and experienced little to no growth.

Did they? Their revenue has increased every single year

Microsoft (MSFT) Revenue 2016-2025

Current and historical revenue information for Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) stock, including a chart and comparison to related stocks.

stockanalysis.com

Edit: Except in 2016. But that was related to shutting down their phone business. And 2009. No explanation needed with the recession.

 

[neuropsychguy]

If Steve Jobs was alive, Apple wouldn't even be in the current pile of mess to begin with.

What mess? Apple is one of the most profitable, largest companies in the world; Apple makes terrific products and offers good services. I've been using Macs since 1984 (and Apple computers before that). Apple Silicon Macs are easily the best computers Apple has ever made. There are some bugs on the software side but there always have been and always will be bugs. The bugs come to light more because there are more users, more social media, and software/OS doing 8000X more than what it used to do.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

The Pelosi’s making a killing in the stock market today

 

[truthsteve]

Do you like using apps that break UI guidelines in OS X? The UI is probably one of the biggest factors on whether an app will be successful or not IMO.

VLC breaks guidelines and I use it everyday.
photoshop for the longest time until recently had its own menubar and ignored macOS' menubar. I use that everyday.

 

[dannyyankou]

Anyone against this should explain - in detail - why choice is not good.

Choice is good. I'd like to see a startup offer a compelling option.

 

[bsolar]

That lawsuit also included Amazon, in fact mostly Amazon. Apple was just a eBook vendor with money. It was the New York publishing mafia that sued. They were seeing their monopolistic control of the publishing business eroding away. Kindle and self publishing authors that inhabit it have really put the hurts to the established publishing industry. Gone are the days of submitting a manuscript the New York publishing houses only to have it rejected. You can go to Amazon's Kindle and publish it there, and let the reading public decide.

No, the lawsuit did not include Amazon as a party. Amazon did actually file the original complaint that prompted the investigation that lead to the lawsuit, but the case was United States vs. Apple, with Apple and various book publishers as co-defendants.

The anti-trust violation was ruled to be a violation "per se", meaning that it was considered an inherently illegal act regardless of circumstances. This means any consideration of market share or monopoly were considered irrelevant in the ruling.

 

[Iconoclysm]

Cool. Can't wait for iOS to suck as much as Android.

Unfortunately, that's the direction this could go. I think an option that would also make developers angry, but does make sense, would be for Apple to allow users to decide during device setup whether they want an Apple managed, walled garden experience or an open ended, power user style experience with inherent risks. They could even start charging a subscription for Apple Protection. From there, this looks like a can of worms of antivirus and malware protection scam products.

 

[scorpio vega]

A duopoly is not that much better than a monopoly.
Also if your entire argument is just switch OS that is the same as if you dont like this happen in the US well move to a different country.

Tad melodramatic.

If you hate how iOS is you have that choice of lagdroid. Stop trying to make iOS like lagdroid

 

[PowerButton]

Got something to back up this claim? I mean, you or someone must have surveyed every single developer to arrive at that conclusion, otherwise you're just pulling it out of your rear.

If it was 5% developers would still think it’s too high. It’s like taxes, until they’re gone they’re always too high.

 

[magbarn]

will this go to Supreme Court as well?

Guarantee it will. There’s hundreds of billions of future profit at stake. This has to be political somehow as App Store hasn’t changed in 4 years. So why now? Maybe something in 8 months?

 

[spazzcat]

If Steve Jobs was alive, Apple wouldn't even be in the current pile of mess to begin with.

This is just dumb; the whole model that is being attacked by the DOJ was created by Jobs.

 

[henkie]

I remember Microsoft having 90%+ global marketshare. Apple currently does not.
I remember customers didn't have a single good alternative PC operating system to choose from. Customers have a choice of Android or iOS.

Fair enough, and this should indeed help Apple's case

A bit of history:
MS got sued in the 90s: https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/management/microsoft-antitrust-case/
Quote:
"the Microsoft case was instrumental in creating a market environment favorable for the emergence of the biggest companies today, such as Google and Apple."

Apple has a major share of the market, especially among teens (>80% or so?). And Apple leverages this to their own advantage (they know about the whole green bubble idiocracy) and crippling competitors on this platform.

But I guess the fans will blame everyone except Apple for this.

 

[spercharged69]

does not even come close to getting an accurate reading from 37 million registered developers.

Do you think that when different PR agencies do public opinion polls they need to ask every person on Earth for their findings to be valid? Do you understand at all how statistics work?

Or am I safe in assuming these are just ridiculous bad faith arguments you're making because you're bored?

 

[k1121j]

Can the government outsource this to a different generation to deal with for a better outcome Then the Government can focus on something like getting some legislation done that they just look for excuses not to do.

 

[truthsteve]

A duopoly is not that much better than a monopoly.

it is.

Also if your entire argument is just switch OS that is the same as if you dont like this happen in the US well move to a different country.

assuming I had a choice in the beginning to choose a mom in a particular country understanding all the pros and cons beforehand.