This exactly. He chose BYOD, so they install the profile. That’s how it works.
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Apple Sued for 'All-Seeing Eye' Employee Device Monitoring Policy
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Pretty much sounds like every tech company. Never, ever, ever use your personal phone or computer for anything work-related. Never install the VPN on your personal device. It becomes property of the company by default.
This dude will probably prevail in the freedom of speech issues, but he will lose the data/surveillance part all day every day.
This dude will probably prevail in the freedom of speech issues, but he will lose the data/surveillance part all day every day.
I don't know what's worse. The person who agreed to install poop on his private own phone instead of getting the free company phone. The person who complains about using said phone with the poop he agreed to. The company which treats you so badly and I am not talking about the phone part. Or the people in the comment section who actually defend Apple about this.
Perhaps they all suck.
Perhaps they all suck.
It says in the article that he had a choice and chose to use his personal iPhone rather than one provided by Apple.
this person had a job that required a lot of work. he was a worker bee.
he worked principally from home.
he wanted to leave apple and find a better job.
apple did not like the way he was letting people know what he was working on.
the process that apple used to isolate and intimidate this worker bee was probably brutal, but entirely legal under california law.
you want a life after you quit your company?
you want companies to be interested in hiring you after you leave company?
then don't do what this guy did.
he worked principally from home.
he wanted to leave apple and find a better job.
apple did not like the way he was letting people know what he was working on.
the process that apple used to isolate and intimidate this worker bee was probably brutal, but entirely legal under california law.
you want a life after you quit your company?
you want companies to be interested in hiring you after you leave company?
then don't do what this guy did.
The devil is in the details and *I* won't judge or defend until I have all of them. But you seem to be ready to accept the claims on face value. Just won't do that.
I am not sure how one gets a job at Apple and doesn't know how secretive Apple is and the lengths they would goto to protect those secrets. It's almost as if Apple knows there are entire websites dedicated to leaks, rumors, or secrets that could give competitors a glimpse at what they are producing next or can cause the stock price to go up or down.
That said, if you work in Tech you should know better than to accept MDM software on your personal device unless you are absolutely comfortable with what they COULD glean from your device. Part of the MDM feature set is they can ensure your phone is locked appropriately and can be erased if lost. You just never know when someone leaves a prototype at a bar and it ends up on the news ;-) Also, not surprising they might confiscate your personal items if they believe you are trying to pass trade secrets along to a competitor. It is in the employees contract for sure. I wonder if he was able to get $$ in exchange for using his personal device. That used to be an option at some places. I know some companies have a locker you can store your personal items until after work or if you head out for lunch.
That said, if you work in Tech you should know better than to accept MDM software on your personal device unless you are absolutely comfortable with what they COULD glean from your device. Part of the MDM feature set is they can ensure your phone is locked appropriately and can be erased if lost. You just never know when someone leaves a prototype at a bar and it ends up on the news ;-) Also, not surprising they might confiscate your personal items if they believe you are trying to pass trade secrets along to a competitor. It is in the employees contract for sure. I wonder if he was able to get $$ in exchange for using his personal device. That used to be an option at some places. I know some companies have a locker you can store your personal items until after work or if you head out for lunch.
Not even remotely surprised. Just read some of the demo emails and texts on the devices next time you're in an Apple Store. Here are a couple I took pictures of one time because they both seemed so eerily, aggressively normal.
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Apple HR: Why is there pr0n mixed with trade secret information on your phone?
Employee: Why are you searching my phone?
Apple HR: You agreed to periodic searches when you signed your employment contract. You wanted to use your own phone.
Employee: I did what?
Apple HR: We gave you options.
Employee: I did what?
I don't recall how many non-disclosure agreements I signed during my career, but that's part of life working in software development. I can't imagine working for Apple, Microsoft, Google, and or the secretive businesses with sensitive government contracts.
You must forget the dream and wake up to the reality.
Employee: Why are you searching my phone?
Apple HR: You agreed to periodic searches when you signed your employment contract. You wanted to use your own phone.
Employee: I did what?
Apple HR: We gave you options.
Employee: I did what?
I don't recall how many non-disclosure agreements I signed during my career, but that's part of life working in software development. I can't imagine working for Apple, Microsoft, Google, and or the secretive businesses with sensitive government contracts.
You must forget the dream and wake up to the reality.
My goodness
It's borderline scary to see how many folks are running to the side of the megacorp here
It's borderline scary to see how many folks are running to the side of the megacorp here
Honestly, when I worked at Apple I got anxiety about this policy. In fact, I haven't worked there in years, and I was wearing an Apple shirt in a photo that I posted the other day, and I was so nervous they'd come after me that I edited the Apple logo out of the photo...
Same. They gave me HUGE anxiety over these policies when I worked there, that still continue to this day. But I'm finally getting better. This year was a good year for me on improvement in that area.
Yeah, crazy. I love Apple, but this was just awful when I worked there. They would tell us to basically try to change the topic if someone asked us what we did for work. No joke. They didn't want people outside of Apple knowing we worked for Apple.
Wow, I am surprised at how many people are on Apple’s side. I would love to work at Apple, but I would still cringe at all the stuff they would make me sign.
I would probably still sign, but reluctantly. Let’s face it, I would be very lucky to get a job at Apple and the power balance would not be in my favor. God forbid someone tries to fight back at the imbalance.
I do think that choosing to use his personal phone was not the right move. I would much rather share a computer than a phone. I have never worked at a company that has BYOD, but I want BYOD mostly because I would like to use an Apple computer.
I would probably still sign, but reluctantly. Let’s face it, I would be very lucky to get a job at Apple and the power balance would not be in my favor. God forbid someone tries to fight back at the imbalance.
I do think that choosing to use his personal phone was not the right move. I would much rather share a computer than a phone. I have never worked at a company that has BYOD, but I want BYOD mostly because I would like to use an Apple computer.
As a former Apple employee, I'm calling BS on a lot of his claims.
When I was working from Home, they issued me a computer and I had to do all of my work on it, personal iCloud was blocked by the MDM, the only thing you could log into with a personal AppleID was the App Store, allowing the use of approved 3rd Party Apps.
All internal Apple Apps and services use an Apple Connect account (which doubles as an Apple ID for things like the Store for EPP purchases etc).
However, their Business Conduct policies do include a number of things that are not enforceable in numerous jurisdictions (restraint of third party trade etc) but always consult your own lawyer before going against any of them just in case.
When I was working from Home, they issued me a computer and I had to do all of my work on it, personal iCloud was blocked by the MDM, the only thing you could log into with a personal AppleID was the App Store, allowing the use of approved 3rd Party Apps.
All internal Apple Apps and services use an Apple Connect account (which doubles as an Apple ID for things like the Store for EPP purchases etc).
However, their Business Conduct policies do include a number of things that are not enforceable in numerous jurisdictions (restraint of third party trade etc) but always consult your own lawyer before going against any of them just in case.
Oh Apple is a bad & dehumanizing company to work for? If that were true wouldn't we have decades of people talking about how it made their lives miserable while they were there and only look back on the work Apple dragged out of them with a sense of accomplishment with years of time in the distance? Oh wait we have that? Next you're going to tell me american business ethics produces giant companies that don't care about people or the world beyond their balance sheets and only exist to hoover up maximum cash from every source possible make themselves look attractive in a grossly unethical gambling scheme for yuppie scumbags hoping to move up into the next caste, the "owner class" by getting rich by skimming off other poor suckers labor, like a giant bloodsucking leech that has no problem killing its host, except the host is just another giant leech made up of all the other thousands of leeches and...
I just don't get all these people that always want to make improvements to that system. Are they stupid?
I just don't get all these people that always want to make improvements to that system. Are they stupid?
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More scary are those who blindly believe what this guy says when one knows what is legal and not in California.
For example, harrasment trsinung (it has a different name now) is mandatory in CA, every year if you are a manager. You have to take a test and have to pass 100%. You are taught what to do and what not to do if you encounter harassment and such. Certainly talking to employees and posting on social media is not what is being taught…
“He says that Apple's policies prevent employees from adequately describing their job responsibilities, accomplishments, and professional growth on sites like LinkedIn, hindering their ability to find employment.”
So now he’s communicating to potential employers that he’s willing and able to interpret what may or may not be reasonable work requirements as human rights violations? I’m sure they’ll be lined up around the block to hire him!
“Hello, my name is Amar Bhakta. Thank you for the job and I look forward to seeing you in court!” 😐
So now he’s communicating to potential employers that he’s willing and able to interpret what may or may not be reasonable work requirements as human rights violations? I’m sure they’ll be lined up around the block to hire him!
“Hello, my name is Amar Bhakta. Thank you for the job and I look forward to seeing you in court!” 😐
Except it's often more complex than that. Your comment comes across as a little flippant as we all know that a lot of companies, (and employees), do things that are illegal.
T's & C's aren't always enforceable and even those that are usually contain phrases like, "as the company may require", whcih is a very open ended statement.
In this particular instance I haven't read the guys contract so I don't know the nuances but thought I'd post in the interest of balance.
That said, I've always advocated for using a completely separate device for work and only using your work device in exceptional circumstances. Still boggles my mind when you hear people being caught using their work computer for pr0n. I'm like, Well what did you expect????