Apple Sued for 'All-Seeing Eye' Employee Device Monitoring Policy

[jmonster]

So disappointing when I see my peers cheer for the trillion dollar megacorp / belittle their fellow man who's getting burned

If every company does this, and they increasingly do, our only choice is to starve. While our peers cheer for it because of this illusion of choice.

Really disappointing y'all.

 

[jz0309]

So disappointing when I see my peers cheer for the trillion dollar megacorp / belittle their fellow man who's getting burned

If every company does this, and they increasingly do, our only choice is to starve. While our peers cheer for it because of this illusion of choice.

Really disappointing y'all.

This has nothing to do with the trillion dollar company, even tech startups and small tech companies have the same rules or do you think that Microsoft,google, Facebook or JP Morgan have different requirements? Do you think Macys supports their employees posting “employment issues” on Facebook?

 

[ChrisA]

Should have read the employment contract.

Contracts become invalid if they if they include provisions that are illegal.

Obviously they can not make you sign a contract that reads "If your boss rapes you, you can not tell anyone or file charges."

While Apple's contract was not quite as bad as the above, the logic is still the same. Only the crime is a California labor law and not rape. But we don't know if this employee's claims are true, hence the trail.

 

[germinator]

Looking forward to his testimony under oath, of how he feels he was treated unfairly and illegally under CA labor laws.

Apple probably does impose some heavy-handed stuff, but if he signed that line and agreed to it...

The fact that "you agreed to it" is not a valid reason why abusive behavior should be tolerated. If someone "agreed" to slavery, would that make slavery acceptable?

 

[ChrisA]

“Bhakta claims that Apple employees are prohibited from disclosing the skills, knowledge, and experience they gained at Apple when working for a subsequent employer, plus they are not allowed to speak with each other or outsiders about problems at work like harassment, discrimination, or unfair treatment.”

Sounds like Apple takes privacy seriously. I’m not sure why this is an issue, many companies do the same.

California has laws that prohibit companies from doing things like this. In fact it appears his lawyer paraphrased the law that was violated. If the claim it true this is a slam-dunk. we don't know if the claims are true.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that Apple's policy is right at the very limit of what is allowed in California. Or at least Apple tried to draw the line there. This employee is arguing that Apple went a few inches too far. Typically things are settled quickly if the issue is black and white.

 

[ChrisA]

Looking forward to his testimony under oath, of how he feels he was treated unfairly and illegally under CA labor laws.

Apple probably does impose some heavy-handed stuff, but if he signed that line and agreed to it...

Any agreement that includes a violation of law is non-binding. This is a very basic tenet of contract law.

A very simple example is that you can not agree to ignore safety rules.

Think about if this were not true. Then you could do any illegal thing to your workers by making them sign a contract. Many would be forced to sign if all employers did the same., and they quickly would. Every coal mining company would ban safety gear and prevent you from telling anyone.

 

[Chazz12]

As a former Apple employee, I'm calling BS on a lot of his claims.

When I was working from Home, they issued me a computer and I had to do all of my work on it, personal iCloud was blocked by the MDM, the only thing you could log into with a personal AppleID was the App Store, allowing the use of approved 3rd Party Apps.
All internal Apple Apps and services use an Apple Connect account (which doubles as an Apple ID for things like the Store for EPP purchases etc).

However, their Business Conduct policies do include a number of things that are not enforceable in numerous jurisdictions (restraint of third party trade etc) but always consult your own lawyer before going against any of them just in case.

This may be true, but it was also only part of his complaint. I worked for Apple and experienced what he's talking about with not being allowed to talk about your job with anyone else, or post about it on social media. Now, whether that was companywide or not, I don't know, but our management made sure we knew. To be fair, our senior manager wasn't too bright and would say stuff that would make you questions her sanity. lol. Eventually she left and the second in command was promoted. Looking back on it though, it was wild that we were told we couldn't even talk about it if someone asked us what we did for work. Or post pictures online. When I worked for Verizon Wireless we shared pictures in uniform all the time. It kind of seems like it comes down to trust, and while they say to assume positive intent, it doesn't seem like that's how they treat employees.

 

[brunerd]

...they indicated to Apple that “YES I WOULD LIKE YOU TO HAVE INTRUSIVE ACCESS TO MY PERSONAL DEVICE AND MY PERSONAL ICLOUD in order that I may collaborate with colleagues.”

Hey man I think your caps lock key got stuck on for a minute, yeah? No need to shout, OK? I was going off of what MacRumors wrote and it didn't mention the stipulation from the source article:

When using their own devices, they’re required to use their personal iCloud accounts and must agree to using software that gives the company the ability to see virtually anything happening on that device, including its real-time location.

It's still kinda weird though that Apple didn't leverage their own User Enroll technologies to enroll his phone in an MDM using a Managed Apple ID. It's their whole Best of Both Worlds™ selling point!

You'd hope Apple would "dog food" their own products but if not that's a problem for their offerings. You build the things that help to solve your problems. Lastly this was pretty weird too:

To evade Apple’s surveillance, employees could use a work-owned device and use a separate iCloud account only for work, but the suit says the company “actively discourages” work-only iCloud accounts.

Is it me or does that seem counter intuitive? A work-owned device using a work-only iCloud account is somehow able to "evade Apple's surveillance"?! So as I said before: Weird.

 

[BGPL]

Obviously Bhakta has never had a clearance. This is how the world works dude, free speech is entirely different from nondisclosure. Go back and look at all those forms you signed on your first day, none of which you read because you were so excited about your new job. I hope his attorneys are working on a contingent basis, otherwise he's gonna get cleaned out. What is it about millennials and wanting to podcast about their life? I can't imagine anyone cares.

 

[villagehiker]

The lawsuit takes issue with Apple's requirement that employees use Apple collaboration tools with an iCloud account, often a personal iCloud account. Bhakta says Apple allowed him to choose to use an Apple-owned iPhone or a personal iPhone for work, and when he chose his personal phone, Apple installed an eSIM and VPN, and required him to use his personal iCloud account to collaborate with colleagues. He claims that Apple has forced him to remain an Apple consumer, and that he is required to continue to patronize Apple.

Apple has the right to manage work and protect intellectual property. An employe who does not wish to use Apple products should find employment elsewhere. Everyone who works for Apple signs non-disclosure agreements and agrees to behave in ethical ways—staying away from lying, cheating, stealing and other unkind business practices. Not saying Bhakta does nasty things, just saying Apple policies clearly try to protect its well-earned good reputation. Not saying Apple never plays hardball.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Should have read the employment contract.

This is PRECISELY what's at the heart of this case. And of MANY corporations, its just Apple is VERY extreme - and its their lifeblood since the Macintosh - its their heart and soul!

And many times it has flopped - as in not stopped leaks but man do they EVER prosecute heavily. "Stop me if you've seen this before. But man you HAVEN'T seen NOTHING" iPhone 4!

At what level is it actually LEGAL, at least in the USA of such contract of employment restrictions listed?

 

[DeepIn2U]

I don't like the appearance of some of these policies, but no one forced him to sign them or work for Apple.

Ideally it should NOT prevent you FROM working at Apple either.

It should never BE an End all Be All at these extremes.

Leaking corporate data = agreed.
restricting skills learned while working at Apple = Ludicris.
Speaking about a company = as long as its prefaced as you're own opinion and in no way is representative of Apple or its other employees and departments nor endeavours is fine - but should NOT prevent you from BEING a PERSON - of which Apple back-handedly portray's publicly.

 

[sfkeepay]

If Apple does indeed prohibit, suppress, or substantially interfere with discussions of “harassment, discrimination, or unfair treatment”, that would very likely violate the 1st Amendment, and no contract can impede constitutional rights, regardless of whether or not it’s a governmentally-sponsored prohibition. I’d be very interested to hear whether all of these restrictions are contained in their employment contract, or if the likely extra-legal ones are communicated to employees by other means.

 

[DeepIn2U]

some of this seems very fishy, and pretty much standard in the whole tech industry ... people who use their personal phones for work typically have to install this tool from MSFT, name escapes me right now, which monitors usage ...
Will be interesting to see how this unfolds

Not specifically Microsoft ...

its an MDM Policy and many industry players follow the standard that was created by Apple + Microsoft initially.

Microsoft has Intune - a VERY late play in the MDM or EMM game (a replacement for their ancient SCCM, and has components like OOBE setup like AutoPilot).

A very interesting read to be honest.

I've been using MDM's since THE VERY start:
AirWatch (before VMWare purchased them and then sold, and it being rebranded)
Trellia,
Maas360,
etc.

Intune goes much deeper.

However the REAL issue I've seen is the imbalance of management of corporate data and server and file server connections on users with personal devices working for said corporations (Bring your own device). When you leave ... many companies fail to understand using a blanket 'Wipe Device' actually DESTROY's a Person's PERSONAL data AND corporate data and should NEVER BE in practice for such devices - and in such execution makes the corporation legally liable. Wiping JUST corporate data leaves a user's data and contacts intact.

I've seen a legal suit occur when a person left with a BYOD policy and someone followed a directors order to wipe the entire device, despite their caution. That person was left stranded trying to get to pickup their child, their child was kidnapped by their spouse whom should not have been allowed to pick-up the child yet with the former employee being so late, unable to call ahead, nor answer the phone call from the school (number listed as just the number and not remembered). let's just say the director was canned within 2wks of investigation, the child was safely returned at home, the former spouse arrested, and the company liable for an enormous fee - in the millions! BYOD was also killed due to that. And NO I was not part of that entire issue because I'd NEVER do that!

FYI I've been in the smartphone game since S60 and PocketPC Phone Edition (Windows Mobile 5) and PalmOS 3 ever since email via POP3 then iMAP then BlackBerry BES came along - so I know VERY well never to make such a mistake! I would've told that director to goto hell and caution him/her heavily of the legal ramifications.

 

[DeepIn2U]

there's a difference WHERE you speak about those, a Linkedin profile shows your name and employer for example, and using that as a platform to share that kind of info is not acceptable.

And yet like ALL social media its done regardless.

Just like sharing your home address should never be done - yet so many adults and youth STILL do this - since the dawn of the internet. Its the internet's OLDEST precaution and lesson!

 

[villagehiker]

You guys only read the "private phone" part? Are you ok with the rest, stuff like being unable to talk about mistreatment and harassment? Is that also in the contract???

Apple policies about mistreatment and harassment generously favor staff over managers, lower-level managers over upper-level managers. The company is very fair, but still can play hardball when required.

 

[Hewhowalksbehindtherows]

Who appointed him to sue on behalf of all California Apple employees?

 

[DocMultimedia]

You guys only read the "private phone" part? Are you ok with the rest, stuff like being unable to talk about mistreatment and harassment? Is that also in the contract???

Have you read an employment contract?

 

[seek3r]

“employees during non-work periods. The lawsuit states that employees have to agree to physical, video, and electronic surveillance by Apple, with Apple able to search Apple and non-Apple devices and other property when an employee is on "company premises," including in a home office.”

This seems *deeply* illegal, it would interfere with things that companies are forbidden to collect info on for one thing, if this is accurate I’m amazed someone in Apple’s legal dept allowed it

 

[GumaRodak]

Personal data issue? So he/she is doing personaly related things while he/she is in the work and geting paid for that?

 

[svish]

Looks like Apple will win this lawsuit. Employee should have read all terms before joining.

 

[mxrider88]

Mmmm.... nah.. I don't believe it. If they were forced to use apple devices they would notice the immense growing amount of bugs and glitches, not to mention the half baked features.
Fake news

 

[Dawn of Individual Merit]

Of course the MacRumors crowd will always side with the trillion dollar multinational corporation.

 

[rukia]

If anyone is interested in what Apple can monitor read the publicly available Rivos lawsuit which discloses the level detail of what the company can see. Apple has the advantage of making the security software, OS, computer, and silicon. Unlike a third party software security solution Apple controls the entire stack down to the transistor. Probably a good thing for the enterprise market the company wants to move into.

 

[ghanwani]

Should have read the employment contract.

Do they provide this before you accept the offer?