Apple Sued for Blocking Tap-to-Pay Competitors on iPhone

[bommai]

I can pay for my ChargePoint ev charger using the ChargePoint app on my Apple Watch and going near it using the nfc. I wonder how that works if Apple does not allow.

 

[webkit]

Apple should sue Lowes, Kroger's and Macy's for not allowing Apple Pay in their stores. Android pay works at Kroger's, though.

They could/should if any of those stores had dominant positions in their markets like Apple has in mobile OS, but they don't.

Apple Pay is part of their mobile iOS platform and Apple has approximately 57% share of the mobile OS duopoly in the U.S. which is why this antitrust suit has been filed here. Whether or not it's successful remains to be seen.

 

[webkit]

What ‘monopoly’? There are dozens of competing companies and services making devices using this technology. People can freely chose devices amongst the features they want. Why should the Government force this decision on us!

Apple Pay is part of their mobile iOS platform and Apple has approximately 57% share of the mobile OS duopoly in the U.S. which is why this antitrust suit has been filed here.

 

[webkit]

This is crap. where does this stop? My Milwaukee batteries don’t fit DeWalt tools or Ryobi or Kobalt. Do we make them all make the batteries and tools interchangeabl? At what point does stuff like this stop?

If any of those companies had dominant positions in their markets like Apple has in mobile OS, perhaps they would be required to make batteries interchangeable. However, they don't.

Apple Pay is part of their mobile iOS platform and Apple has approximately 57% share of the mobile OS duopoly in the U.S. which is why this antitrust suit has been filed here.

 

[spacebar2k]

The only information Apple collects when you use Apple Pay on your Apple device is a query to insure there are sufficient funds or credit.

Google Pay and Samsung Pay take personal and finical information, which they sell to advertisers which is why they don’t charge.

Neither Google nor Samsung will agree to follow Apple’s strict guidelines for privacy and will try to force Apple to lower its standards. Much like Epic is trying to do.

Evidence please.

This better not lead to banks forcing use to use their own nfc payment options. I like having all my cards in one place.

Because that's what happened on Android.. oh wait!

Here comes Barclays Pay, Citi Pay, Capital One Pay, etc. Some of those may already exist actually and I didn't even realize it.

Have a look outside your walled garden. Things are quite different to how you imagine.

The only reason Google doesn't charge is because they are making money off mining the data of it's google pay users. Apple and google both have costs associated with the service. The reason apple charges is because they don't make money off of your purchase data but still need to cover those costs. The two companies have different business models and therefore charge different rates for similar services. Google is giving away something for free that it pays for specifically because they want to get user data. Apple can't give it away for free because they aren't making money off the data and therefore look like the bad guy for doing so.

Google Pay is NOT free. It absolutely does charge a transaction fee like any other payments platform. It just doesn't charge another extra fee on top just to access the platform. Hope you can wrap your brain around that distinction.

Do android phone processors have the Secure Enclave? I also note that fingerprint sensors and face recognition can be less secure on android. Else, it would literally be Apple Pay in name only, if said feature didn’t same with the same safeguards as on iOS.

Do yourself a favour and just do a quick search. Android devices, at least the ones from well known manufacturers, do have hardware security (on-device processing and storage of authentication data) on-par with iPhones, if not better in some cases. Google uses the Titan M chip in Pixels, Samsung uses its Secure Element chip, others use Qualcomm solutions that utilise ARM's TrustZone. Most Samsung higher end devices use 3D biometric scanners, which is just as secure as FaceID.

 

[webkit]

So my opinion might not be popular but you can’t go into Target and use your Walmart Credit Card…..

I understand it might be a little different but it’s the same with the App Store. Apple created the environment and the users choose apple for the reason of simplicity. If we didn’t like it there is Android based phones. I simply can’t go into a Home Depot and setup a cash register that bypasses Depot. So why let it happen.

Target, Walmart, Home Dept, etc. don't have dominant positions in their markets like Apple has in mobile OS.

Apple Pay is part of their mobile iOS platform and Apple has approximately 57% share of the mobile OS duopoly in the U.S. which is why this antitrust suit has been filed here.

 

[webkit]

Yes, a legal monopoly. The same way apple owns 100% of the distribution of the iPhone.

The "monopoly" or duopoly may be legal (no one is calling for the breakup of Apple here) but the anticompetitive behavior as part of a duopoly in mobile OS may not be.

 

[I7guy]

I'm pretty comfortable with the folks handling the case since they're 2 for 2 on getting some big settlements from Apple.

We’ll it doesn’t always go like people think it’s going to go. But I suppose we could put up odds , like a bookie.

 

[I7guy]

The "monopoly" or duopoly may be legal (no one is calling for the breakup of Apple here) but the anticompetitive behavior as part of a duopoly in mobile OS may not be.

Yes. May not be. Or may be legal.

 

[gnipgnop]

I'm pretty comfortable with the folks handling the case since they're 2 for 2 on getting some big settlements from Apple.

You probably shouldn't be so comfortable. This case is trying to use illegal tying as the violation. That's the same approach that Epic was using with the App Store and failed in U.S. court.

 

[Beautyspin]

Oh no. The poor banks. Quick, let’s destroy a private and secure eco system to help protect them.

Nobody wants to pay. Neither Apple (poor Apple that gorges on other's hard-earned money through rent seeking), nor the banks, especially due to anticompetitive measures by Apple.

 

[Beautyspin]

That’s a logical fallacy - false equivalency. I’ve seen people mention that Apple, Google and others have similar Terms & Conditions regarding your data, therefore they must be the same. That’s patently false.

The data Google collects is orders of magnitude more than Apple. A few of these sources are:

- Chrome, the worlds most used browser.
- Gmail, the worlds most used e-mail.
- Maps, the worlds most used map service.
- YouTube, the worlds most used video content site.
- Android, the worlds most used mobile OS.
- Search, the worlds most used search engine.

You get the idea. Then we have tools like Google Analytics or Google Adsense embedded into millions of websites, collecting data from people who don’t even use any Google products.

Then we have the business model to consider. Google gets 80% of their revenue from targeted ads. Apple makes do little from ads it’s a rounding error on their earnings report. Apple makes its money selling hardware and services related to that hardware.

As they say, follow the money. A company that makes 80% of its revenue off your data isn’t going to treat your data the same. To believe otherwise is naive at best.

Apple products are the most used products on iOS. If they are not, then Apple should be ashamed. Apple has the same ad network that was useless due to which it started the ATT (App tracking transparency) BS which gives Apple an advantage and several governments have found it to be anticompetitive.

Cheat Sheet: How Apple’s ATT is giving it more influence over ad dollars

The signs that Apple is building an ads business is there — here is what we actually know.

digiday.com

Germany's antitrust watchdog latest to probe Apple's ATT

Apple's App Tracking Transparency (ATT) feature is facing another antitrust probe in Europe, this time by Germany's Federal Cartel Office (FCO).

techcrunch.com

 

[svish]

Another trouble for Apple. Numerous litigations!!

 

[justanotherdave]

Just because Apple doesn’t want to bring Apple Pay to other phones doesn’t mean Apple should be able to block other wallets from the iPhone.

Just because I want access to a market I didn’t create doesn’t mean I’m entitled to.

 

[Beautyspin]

When android has the equivalent of iOS’ Secure Enclave there might be a point in doing so. Until then, using Android for NFC will be a hard pass for anyone that cares about the security of their bank accounts - which starts with Apple and includes most people that have activated Apple Pay on their gear.

So, no, Apple cannot go that route without sacrificing the essential security that makes Apple Pay successful and all the other pay apps relative failures.

Every phone has a secure enclave. It comes as a part of the SOC now. Try harder please.

Apple was the first with the Secure Enclave, but now everyone has a security chip

Apple added the Secure Enclave to iPhone 5S so it could house information securely. It was a first, but now Android manufacturers have followed suit.

www.imore.com

 

[I7guy]

Another trouble for Apple. Numerous litigations!!

It’s a good thing apple has deep, deep pockets.

 

[Abazigal]

Another trouble for Apple. Numerous litigations!!

I can't help but think of that scene from the first Ip Man movie where he faces 10 Japanese fighters head on.

 

[Beautyspin]

That is a half truth if you have ever seen one.
Apple does collect the data needed for keeping it secure. Apple does also process the payments, for witch they get payed. 0,15% or $0,05. Which is much lower than other payment providers in the us. (What does Mastercard/visa/AE charge? Up to 3%?) And Apple doesn’t give this data to others, nor do they sell it.
Google doesn’t process any payment data but doesn’t do anything else either. They just provide access to the NFC.

So you use the wallet of the bank, (or three different wallets if you are with three different banks, how convenient…) The bank uses the NFC chip and -that’s the crux- the bank processes and collects all payment information. You pay for that. With a monthly fee and/or with interests and/or interest differences. And then the bank goes on selling your data to third parties that uses this information to aggregate extremely expensive reports about consumer behavior and changes therein.
That is the difference with Apple: they don’t sell your data. And the banks and the consultancies hate Apple for that.
Ooh and Google isn’t a charity. So somewhere along the line they do make money and there is no other product then you.

1. Please read the article that opens when you click on the link. It does a deep dive of what type of information that Google and Apple collect on iOS. Both collect the same information. Both do not sell data. Google does not sell data; it uses the data to serve ads and will give you the information about the effectiveness of ads. Try to place ads through Google and you will see this. Apple does the same through its ad network.

Germany's antitrust watchdog latest to probe Apple's ATT

Apple's App Tracking Transparency (ATT) feature is facing another antitrust probe in Europe, this time by Germany's Federal Cartel Office (FCO).

techcrunch.com

2. Banks collect the payment information anyhow. Irrespective of who the payment is through, the information finally reaches the banks. If you think that banks do not know about your spends, you are wrong. You know, there is something called a bank statement that gives out every detail of your spends. Banks do not have to depend on APple to provide them your transaction data. It automatically goes to the bank and is updated in your account. Do you even know the kind of regulations that banks are forced to follow? They are highly regulated. They are better guardians of your data than Apple, which literally leaks like a seive.

Apple and Facebook reportedly provided personal user data to hackers posing as law enforcement - 9to5Mac

In mid-2021, Apple provided customer data to hackers after they masqueraded themselves as law enforcement officials, shows a new report.

9to5mac.com

 

[Beautyspin]

Or disallow the use of the Secure Enclave, and blast users opting for a third party payment option with tons of warning pop-ups.

Please do not spread FUD. Android phones have secure enclave and they allow NFC access to all apps. It is not an issue at all.

 

[Mr.Blacky]

So people pay around $670 billion per year with Apple Pay? Wasn't there a study not long ago, stating that only "a few" are using the service?

 

[compwiz1202]

If they “open it up” as you say, many card issuers will switch over to their own app to save the transaction fee and pull support for apple pay in favor of their own NFC app. This will leave apple with less and less banks supporting the system and less and less fees which are necessary for Apple to charge to cover the costs of the servers and maintenance of the system. Google doesn’t charge the fee because they use your purchase data and make enough to more tha cover the costs of the servers. Apple doesn’t sell your data so they need the fee. With out the fee Apple Pay fails and there will be a horrible mishmash of bank apps that you will need to navigate to use contactless payment on the iPhone. Something no one wants. There is no problem with apple’s system. This is just an issue with banks not wanting to pay fees, which are necessary to operate the system. Fees that google has chosen to waive in favor of data mining Making apples fees seem unfair by comparison.

That will a quick way for me to stop using every card but Apple Card. That crap is absolutely inconvenient. I still can't understand how idiot Wal~Mart thinks WP is more conveniient. NO one place with all your cards that can be used everywhere is more convenient

 

[ProfessionalFan]

Another trouble for Apple. Numerous litigations!!

When you are the biggest company in the world, you become a target for these. They have a big war chest for legal since they expect it.

 

[vipergts2207]

Just because I want access to a market I didn’t create doesn’t mean I’m entitled to.

What market would that be exactly?

 

[iManilaEnvelope]

That will a quick way for me to stop using every card but Apple Card. That crap is absolutely inconvenient. I still can't understand how idiot Wal~Mart thinks WP is more conveniient. NO one place with all your cards that can be used everywhere is more convenient

Walmart Pay is more convenient for Walmart’s business because its payment processor charges 0% surcharge on payments. Whereas Apple charges .15% by contract on all processors plus the processor fee (because banks negotiated this fee as an incentive for Apple to not build a processor network of its own around Apple Pay). Why Apple cannot simply connect a Walmart account like a gift card or Starbucks card to Walmart Pay while looking like a normal card, I don’t know. So Walmart Pay is a pain requiring multiple steps and scans, and Apple charges everyone more to tap once.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

Have a look outside your walled garden. Things are quite different to how you imagine.

No thanks, I quite like it. Thanks for the offer though.