Apple Sued for Blocking Tap-to-Pay Competitors on iPhone

[Beautyspin]

Google is free because they're selling your data. Remember...if it's free YOU are the product.

Apple collects the same data that Google collects and both do not sell the data.

Does Apple Sell Your Data? Everything You Need To Know

It is completely justified if you want to know how Apple uses your data, and I think we have a somewhat complicated answer to this question

fossbytes.com

 

[ksj1]

In order for Apple to open this up they would need to open up their Secure Enclave. I hope this is not happening.

 

[LeadingHeat]

This is getting ridiculous. No wonder why apple has a sky-scraper full of lawyers.

 

[Abazigal]

In order for Apple to open this up they would need to open up their Secure Enclave. I hope this is not happening.

Or disallow the use of the Secure Enclave, and blast users opting for a third party payment option with tons of warning pop-ups.

 

[AnotherOpinion]

So are the rules going to be no more exclusive features anymore? I admit, the laws surrounding these types of interoperability rules and standards are way out of my league, and I understand some things need to be more "open" and work with each other. But damn, it seems like everyone wants a piece of the Apple pie. It's hard to tell what is a frivolous cash grab and what has merit.

I feel the same… what will follow… will Nintendo be forced to allow their games out be played on a PS5? Will PS4 games be forced to be re-coded and played on a Switch? I feel that if you want to use Google Pay, then use any Android phone. If you want to use Samsung Pay, then use a Samsung phone. AND these wallets are more for convenience than replacement. The fact is that iPhone users spend more… so providing this in stores increases the chance that a purchase can be made easily. I don';t think it's right that Apple charges, and others don't…but that could also be just Google and Samsung being competitive by not charging a fee.

 

[amartinez1660]

So why should I miss out on 98% of the features I like of a phone just for the 2% I can't possibly like? It's better to introduce an option so that I can enjoy 100% of the phone, isn't it?


You can offer something special. Just make sure you allow users to ignore it. And if they do, fix it or kill it like every other vendor.

There’s a big difference between -“let the company freely decide what to introduce and do with their products and customers will freely decide what to buy”- and -“let’s use force to bend all of that”-.
Android offering more choices is supposed to be great and is supposed to give an edge to it. Forcing Apple to do the same is forcing Android to lose an tactical edge/benefit by pure intervention.
Apple, and you the customer, via feedback, voting with your wallet, etc should come to an arrangement regarding that 2% you are missing.

And for all the anti-apple/android-fans, you might find joy in seeing apple taking hits left and right, but realize that in doing so you are just also eroding any advantage that Android might have been enjoying all this time.

This is the same mindset over and over again. Nothing can be allowed to be different, or more, or less, or unique than anything else.
Good luck trying to discover or innovate that things like a car with 5 wheels (or anything else) is a magically more efficient and secure vehicle, that innovation will be slashed and made a nothingburger soon after.

In the not too distant future, when buying a Nintendo Switch or PS5 or Xbox, it will all come in a white generic no-name box and the hardware of the consoles themselves will be exactly the same between each… minus maybe a printed tiny sticker on said white blank box with the name of the console on it.

 

[macfacts]

I bought an iPhone for the privacy/security. If I wanted to have my personal life vacuumed up I’d buy an Android phone and use Google services. My right to privacy trumps these greedy banks/card companies who want to find yet ANOTHER way to profit off me.

No one is forcing you to install any apps. Or click yes to any contracts

 

[Nicky G]

All this lawsuit will do if apple looses, is put apple at a financial disadvantage in comparison to google or force apple to take on Google's awful data mining business practices to compete.

I don't see how this is the case. Apple is plenty profitable last time I checked, I doubt they are going to do a total 180-degree turn because of .15% processing fees for Apple Pay.

 

[iManilaEnvelope]

There’s a big difference between -“let the company freely decide what to introduce and do with their products and customers will freely decide what to buy”- and -“let’s use force to bend all of that”-.
Android offering more choices is supposed to be great and is supposed to give an edge to it. Forcing Apple to do the same is forcing Android to lose an tactical edge/benefit by pure intervention.
Apple, and you the customer, via feedback, voting with your wallet, etc should come to an arrangement regarding that 2% you are missing.

And for all the anti-apple/android-fans, you might find joy in seeing apple taking hits left and right, but realize that in doing so you are just also eroding any advantage that Android might have been enjoying all this time.

This is the same mindset over and over again. Nothing can be allowed to be different, or more, or less, or unique than anything else.
Good luck trying to discover or innovate that things like a car with 5 wheels (or anything else) is a magically more efficient and secure vehicle, that innovation will be slashed and made a nothingburger soon after.

In the not too distant future, when buying a Nintendo Switch or PS5 or Xbox, it will all come in a white generic no-name box and the hardware of the consoles themselves will be exactly the same between each… minus maybe a printed tiny sticker on said white blank box with the name of the console on it.

I long for the days there was one distinctive phone box and one distinctive phone modem with Ma Bell’s logo on it. When Tyson owned 98% of the Arkansas farmland and so could set the price not just of using the land, but access to the poultry processing, chicken nuggets and restaurant and farmers’ prices across the entire country.

These aren’t unique things. The law exists to protect you in your pursuit of that two percent utility. No one entity by inertia maintains lasting control over its domain, not by design or business acumen but by cumulative effects on innovation, consumers and other producers.

Why is this difficult to comprehend for people? It’s not an anti-Apple kick. If true, in court, the law is applied to Apple as it would be to the many colored boxes of companies. There isn’t even a legal remedy that makes Apple Pay less secure, less useful… it’s a fine or an injunction to do something: like allow producers and innovators to access Apple Pay.

Otherwise there’s QR codes per app I guess… There’s a reason Walmart can afford to say no to Apple Pay as a unified system under Apple supervision but Starbucks and Pete’s Coffee cannot. Do you trust Starbucks’s or PayPal’s virtual card less or find their stack of cards more inconvenient because Apple doesn’t get a cut or oversight of their cards? Competition is a good thing for consumers when efficient… for all market participants.

 

[alecgold]

Apple collects the same data that Google collects and both do not sell the data.

Does Apple Sell Your Data? Everything You Need To Know

It is completely justified if you want to know how Apple uses your data, and I think we have a somewhat complicated answer to this question

fossbytes.com

That is a half truth if you have ever seen one.
Apple does collect the data needed for keeping it secure. Apple does also process the payments, for witch they get payed. 0,15% or $0,05. Which is much lower than other payment providers in the us. (What does Mastercard/visa/AE charge? Up to 3%?) And Apple doesn’t give this data to others, nor do they sell it.
Google doesn’t process any payment data but doesn’t do anything else either. They just provide access to the NFC.

So you use the wallet of the bank, (or three different wallets if you are with three different banks, how convenient…) The bank uses the NFC chip and -that’s the crux- the bank processes and collects all payment information. You pay for that. With a monthly fee and/or with interests and/or interest differences. And then the bank goes on selling your data to third parties that uses this information to aggregate extremely expensive reports about consumer behavior and changes therein.
That is the difference with Apple: they don’t sell your data. And the banks and the consultancies hate Apple for that.
Ooh and Google isn’t a charity. So somewhere along the line they do make money and there is no other product then you.

 

[YellowZx5]

So my opinion might not be popular but you can’t go into Target and use your Walmart Credit Card…..

I understand it might be a little different but it’s the same with the App Store. Apple created the environment and the users choose apple for the reason of simplicity. If we didn’t like it there is Android based phones. I simply can’t go into a Home Depot and setup a cash register that bypasses Depot. So why let it happen.

I guess in the end, Apple built everything and supplies the technology for a fee to use their network and let’s people build applications for their customers to buy and use. I don’t see it as a negative at all but a positive for it all just working.

 

[InGen]

It is quite literally insane that you can invent a sandbox and then be punished legally for not allowing things in said sandbox that competitors want to see.

There should be different laws for manipulative monopolies and organic monopolies, I.e things that naturally become popular and dominate the market without any illegal or mischievous behaviour.

Apple has a record of shunning their competitors business decisions even when there is clearly profit to be had. Apple is like that guy who wants to live out on a ranch and be left alone but people keep coming to pester him about how he runs his farm.

Apple has never changed course to pander for maximum adoption of its products, in fact it has arguably priced out certain demographics from its customer base even when there has been considerable margin in its products to attract more buyers.

The conclusion to this is simple, Apple invented it’s ecosystem, it should have governance over the direction of its ecosystem. The idea that we can legally obligate companies to invent features for their products they wouldn’t otherwise do to pander to those who’s products aren’t as successful is an incorrect path forward in my opinion.

 

[iamfredrik]

Are you able to use Apple Pay on competitor phones?

No, but there is nothing that would prevent Apple from bringing Apple Pay to Android phones if they wanted to, so I don't see your point.

 

[iManilaEnvelope]

So my opinion might not be popular but you can’t go into Target and use your Walmart Credit Card…..

I understand it might be a little different but it’s the same with the App Store. Apple created the environment and the users choose apple for the reason of simplicity. If we didn’t like it there is Android based phones. I simply can’t go into a Home Depot and setup a cash register that bypasses Depot. So why let it happen.

I guess in the end, Apple built everything and supplies the technology for a fee to use their network and let’s people build applications for their customers to buy and use. I don’t see it as a negative at all but a positive for it all just working.

That’s a good point. I also pay for convenience as a recent MacOS convert. But the larger scale issue is not me, you and Apple. I’ll pay the percent premium passed on by the publisher to the consumer due to Apple.

The problem is how that fee and sandbox impacts the rest of the market. Why is Apple really charging that specific amount? Is it to curate the sandbox? Is it some unique business approach to make a profit? That’s allowed.

Or is it a stranglehold on producer innovation? Is it an artificial barrier to reach consumers without Apple’s permission and punitive charge? How many small software firms or people were turned off by the sandbox?

What is the harm to Apple or the ecosystem if I want to side load an app and pay the producer directly? Isn’t that why Apple has security engineering departments and certificates? Is this really needed to make a profit, or is it to discourage competitors that really could eat into their share?

How can anyone compete when Apple owns 100% of the XX% iOS market share? Recall the first iPhone. Were free web apps on your home screen good for consumers compared to apps? And when those web apps had to begin charging money as a surplus through Apple, was that efficient for you, me, or App Maker? Was it even good for Google, where one sandbox eats innovation from the other? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[justanotherdave]

Are you aware that almost all countries have strict laws regarding financial data? They are the most strictly controlled industry apart from the healthcare industry.

Who says the only data they’re harvesting is financial?

 

[justanotherdave]

No one is forcing you to install any apps. Or click yes to any contracts

This is a flawed argument (if you don’t use the feature you aren’t affected). Once access has been built-in (encryption back door for FBI, 3rd party App stores, NFC available to 3rd parties) it’s only a matter of time before someone exploits it. This is the one irrefutable truth about software.

 

[iManilaEnvelope]

This is a flawed argument (if you don’t use the feature you aren’t affected). Once access has been built-in (encryption back door for FBI, 3rd party App stores, NFC available to 3rd parties) it’s only a matter of time before someone exploits it. This is the one irrefutable truth about software.

The FBI is already exploiting your phone. Forget the zero days the Times reported they were testing and buying from Israel. The lightning port.

Let’s not forget the biggest exploitation of all: a court throwing you in prison until you unlock your device, or forcing Apple to do it for you.

 

[pmhparis]

On Android, Apple Pay can be an option if Apple chooses to go that route.

When android has the equivalent of iOS’ Secure Enclave there might be a point in doing so. Until then, using Android for NFC will be a hard pass for anyone that cares about the security of their bank accounts - which starts with Apple and includes most people that have activated Apple Pay on their gear.

So, no, Apple cannot go that route without sacrificing the essential security that makes Apple Pay successful and all the other pay apps relative failures.

 

[justanotherdave]

Apple collects the same data that Google collects and both do not sell the data.

Does Apple Sell Your Data? Everything You Need To Know

It is completely justified if you want to know how Apple uses your data, and I think we have a somewhat complicated answer to this question

fossbytes.com

That’s a logical fallacy - false equivalency. I’ve seen people mention that Apple, Google and others have similar Terms & Conditions regarding your data, therefore they must be the same. That’s patently false.

The data Google collects is orders of magnitude more than Apple. A few of these sources are:

- Chrome, the worlds most used browser.
- Gmail, the worlds most used e-mail.
- Maps, the worlds most used map service.
- YouTube, the worlds most used video content site.
- Android, the worlds most used mobile OS.
- Search, the worlds most used search engine.

You get the idea. Then we have tools like Google Analytics or Google Adsense embedded into millions of websites, collecting data from people who don’t even use any Google products.

Then we have the business model to consider. Google gets 80% of their revenue from targeted ads. Apple makes do little from ads it’s a rounding error on their earnings report. Apple makes its money selling hardware and services related to that hardware.

As they say, follow the money. A company that makes 80% of its revenue off your data isn’t going to treat your data the same. To believe otherwise is naive at best.

 

[Abazigal]

No, but there is nothing that would prevent Apple from bringing Apple Pay to Android phones if they wanted to, so I don't see your point.

Do android phone processors have the Secure Enclave? I also note that fingerprint sensors and face recognition can be less secure on android. Else, it would literally be Apple Pay in name only, if said feature didn’t same with the same safeguards as on iOS.

 

[Wanted797]

So are the rules going to be no more exclusive features anymore? I admit, the laws surrounding these types of interoperability rules and standards are way out of my league, and I understand some things need to be more "open" and work with each other. But damn, it seems like everyone wants a piece of the Apple pie. It's hard to tell what is a frivolous cash grab and what has merit.

Lawyers get paid even if they lose. It just changes who pays them.

Apple makes billions and many law firms will go for stupid cases to get the go away money alone.

 

[boyarka]

Beta Americans: we are the land of the free and home of the brave. We are all 100% for free market and honest, free competition, and would do anything to defend that.

Also Beta Americans: Apple releasing AirPods Pro Ultra Maxx Cook Pride Nonbinary BLM MLK Edition for 999$ is a fair deal considering how they come in Color(Red) and are almost in mo way better, I'll buy them with my already near maxed-out CCs trough Apple Pay. And oh yeah - thank God for Apple Pay. There are too many confusing payment systems as it is, and that there's just this one on iPhone furthers the safety and ease of use everyone loves. Every time Apple allows just itself on it's own platforms is in no way anti-competitive, but great innovative thinking.
Take care now, I just got an iMessage from my parner, They/Them is waiting for me at our nearest Apple Store. We can finally talk bartering our internal organs as part of a down payment plan for the new Macbook Air that starts at just 5999$ for baseline model with a 30% slower SSD, no ports, 1GB of RAM and 8Gb SSD, and a 480p iMessage camera, and will die like a bottled rat 3 months after purchase.

 

[Z1000ST]

Beta Americans: we are the land of the free and home of the brave. We are all 100% for free market and honest, free competition, and would do anything to defend that.

Also Beta Americans: Apple releasing AirPods Pro Ultra Maxx Cook Pride Nonbinary BLM MLK Edition for 999$ is a fair deal considering how they come in Color(Red) and are almost in mo way better, I'll buy them with my already near maxed-out CCs trough Apple Pay. And oh yeah - thank God for Apple Pay. There are too many confusing payment systems as it is, and that there's just this one on iPhone furthers the safety and ease of use everyone loves. Every time Apple allows just itself on it's own platforms is in no way anti-competitive, but great innovative thinking.
Take care now, I just got an iMessage from my parner, They/Them is waiting for me at our nearest Apple Store. We can finally talk bartering our internal organs as part of a down payment plan for the new Macbook Air that starts at just 5999$ for baseline model with a 30% slower SSD, no ports, 1GB of RAM and 8Gb SSD, and a 480p iMessage camera, and will die like a bottled rat 3 months after purchase.

Think you missed something….

Oh no wait, my bad!

 

[AndiG]

This whole process is taking way too long. I hope the European DMA will hit Apple hard and that other countries will pass similar laws.

 

[rafark]

Can you use the Google equivalent on iOS?

That’s what this lawsuit is about lmao