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It's a mild annoyance to me, since I don't take a lot of public transport these days.

But my friends who do complain about not being being able to tap on/off using their iPhones. They instead have to carry the physical card like it's 2004

That isn’t Apples fault. That is the transit authority not wanting to use it or upgrade hardware. Apple Wallet works with a number of transit authorities just fine (fine is used loosely). I can going to the wallet App and add a number of transit cards or even change the settings on a CC/debt card for express transit.

The problem most of these companies/authorities are not reaching out to Apple for the “everyone has a right to ask for private API feature xyz, but if your App or feature don’t meet the requirements for it, you are not going to get it.”
 
Samsung, with the help and control of the Korean government, do not allow Apple Pay here. They blocked the IPhone from being sold here for the better part of a year, originally. Don't cry for Samsung. Any use of their name along the same lines as the term "fairness" need to be laughed at.
 
I’ll call it now - Apple will do the same thing they’re planning to do with third party app stores and in-app payments - charge a commission. So while third party wallets may eventually come, Apple charge them the fee the issues would have paid Apple directly before.
 
Using your logic Sony should be compelled by the Government to allow XBox Games to be installed on a PlayStation.
People can FREELY CHOSE what platforms they want to use! There is plenty of options and competition! The Government SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED!
Your argument doesn't hold there since it is third party developers that make the games for those consoles. Annnnd, outside exclusivity deals, individual games ARE made for both consoles.

Then there is also the unrelated fact Xbox and PlayStation controllers both work on Apple devices.

Back on topic, the issue is Apple here. The reason Apple Pay isn't on Android devices isn't because of Google, Samsung, or any other phone manufacturer is keeping them off...it is because Apple doesn't want to be. Why would they? They're making a billion dollars/yr of being the exclusive tap to pay provider on iPhone. The case is pretty solid here against Apple regardless what the Apple sympathizers on this forum want to believe.
 
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Not that I am aware of. I think Apple has every right to only allow Apple Pay on their devices.
Apple has the OPTION to pursue that I would guess but doesn’t have to. Whereas no one has the option on iPhone. If they didn’t profit from each transaction like they are then I believe this would be a harder issue.
 
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So are the rules going to be no more exclusive features anymore? I admit, the laws surrounding these types of interoperability rules and standards are way out of my league, and I understand some things need to be more "open" and work with each other. But damn, it seems like everyone wants a piece of the Apple pie. It's hard to tell what is a frivolous cash grab and what has merit.
The services are not identical because Apple Pay provides a higher level of security and data protections. There are
They're not calling for Apple Pay to be available on other devices. So Apple Pay can still be an exclusive iOS feature. This isn't like iMessage or FaceTime where you really can only interact with other iOS users (at least while utilizing all of the functionality). Tap-to-pay is very straightforward, it's basically just your phone or watch emulating a tap-to-pay credit card from the perspective of the terminal. So I'm not sure what Apple can offer to make Apple Pay a better "exclusive" feature other than maybe some kind of built in purchase insurance (which basically all CC's already offer - and they're not charging enough for debit card transactions to make it viable for that side). If Google Pay truly is zero-fee, it definitely doesn't look too good for Apple to charge fees on top of the credit card processor fees.
Google doesn’t charge a fee because they insert themselves into the process where your data and card information is stored on their servers and your transactions are tracked. This is data they monetize and most people have no idea.

Apple contacts the card’s bank to verify your account then stores a token on your device in the Secure Enclave. They are not tracking transactions and data to monetize in the same way.
 
To what end? What exactly is the benefit of using multiple separate wallets?

To the consumer there’s no benefit, but plenty of potential harm.

Banks love this as they could gather even more data from you and could start doing targets advertising right in their “wallet”.

This is an anti-consumer, pro-bank initiative.
 
What - you mean I have to buy a something off a specific vendor to use their specific features?! Gosh. That’s a new concept. Oh wait its not new. In fact - it’s completely normal. That’s how a product works. You buy it because if it’s features. Or else we have this bland situation whereby no one can offer something special for their own product.
The point is ppl bought an iPhone and should be able to install other apps that use the NFC.
 
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Everyone is taking this personally. Let's think like a court or the FTC would about the complaint:
  1. Apple has "significant and durable market power" in the NFC payment industry. This is what a "monopoly" means in the Sherman Act.
  2. Apple Pay may be a superior and innovative NFC product. It is also potentially exclusionary (blocking access to iPhone system) and predatory (transaction fees, exclusive creditor contracts, information requirements, NFC hardware/software supply contracts...). This is what a single firm does to maintain a potential "monopoly."
  3. Apple Pay may be so successful and trusted because it is efficient, privacy-preserving, easy or a host of other great reasons to exist as-is. Or, a regulator could argue whether "the willful acquisition or maintenance of that power as distinguished from growth or development as a consequence of a superior product, business acumen, or historic accident" is illegally promoting a monopoly at the expense of the NFC market.
  4. Using the FTC and Microsoft, Microsoft made it easier for businesses to install Windows without fees and with rebates if they accepted the terms of its internet browser baked in. Windows didn't completely halt access to its system for foreign browsers. The easiest consumer and middle-market option was simply Internet Explorer: safe, easy, private, free... except Microsoft was a dominant OS company that used its market power (obviously not 100% of the market, since we're on MacRumors) to restrict and exclude foreign browsers and the development of IE alternatives for Windows and all computer users.
  5. Lawyers aren't idiots. This is the law. If the FTC and the Justice Department sue Apple, or Google, or these lawyers do so... or attract a corporate whistleblower for a legal reward... the court will apply the legal elements to Apple Pay and make a decision. It won't be: sue the lawyers, Apple is always right, Google is stealing my info so I pay Apple to do it instead, let me install XBOX on my Playstation. It will probably be and only be a single firm review of Apple's Apple Pay business conduct.
 
Apple has the OPTION to pursue that I would guess but doesn’t have to. Whereas no one has the option on iPhone. If they didn’t profit from each transaction like they are then I believe this would be a harder issue.
They can buy a different device or use cash app.
 
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This is crap. where does this stop? My Milwaukee batteries don’t fit DeWalt tools or Ryobi or Kobalt. Do we make them all make the batteries and tools interchangeabl? At what point does stuff like this stop?
 
The services are not identical because Apple Pay provides a higher level of security and data protections. There are

Google doesn’t charge a fee because they insert themselves into the process where your data and card information is stored on their servers and your transactions are tracked. This is data they monetize and most people have no idea.

Apple contacts the card’s bank to verify your account then stores a token on your device in the Secure Enclave. They are not tracking transactions and data to monetize in the same way.
Apple skips the data collection and just takes a percentage. Do zero work and get paid.
 
But should they be able to charge out the wazoo for it when others don't charge?
The only reason Google doesn't charge is because they are making money off mining the data of it's google pay users. Apple and google both have costs associated with the service. The reason apple charges is because they don't make money off of your purchase data but still need to cover those costs. The two companies have different business models and therefore charge different rates for similar services. Google is giving away something for free that it pays for specifically because they want to get user data. Apple can't give it away for free because they aren't making money off the data and therefore look like the bad guy for doing so.
 
Everyone is taking this personally. Let's think like a court or the FTC would about the complaint:
  1. Apple has "significant and durable market power" in the NFC payment industry. This is what a "monopoly" means in the Sherman Act.
  2. Apple Pay may be a superior and innovative NFC product. It is also potentially exclusionary (blocking access to iPhone system) and predatory (transaction fees, exclusive creditor contracts, information requirements, NFC hardware/software supply contracts...). This is what a single firm does to maintain a potential "monopoly."
  3. Apple Pay may be so successful and trusted because it is efficient, privacy-preserving, easy or a host of other great reasons to exist as-is. Or, a regulator could argue whether "the willful acquisition or maintenance of that power as distinguished from growth or development as a consequence of a superior product, business acumen, or historic accident" is illegally promoting a monopoly at the expense of the NFC market.
  4. Using the FTC and Microsoft, Microsoft made it easier for businesses to install Windows without fees and with rebates if they accepted the terms of its internet browser baked in. Windows didn't completely halt access to its system for foreign browsers. The easiest consumer and middle-market option was simply Internet Explorer: safe, easy, private, free... except Microsoft was a dominant OS company that used its market power (obviously not 100% of the market, since we're on MacRumors) to restrict and exclude foreign browsers and the development of IE alternatives for Windows and all computer users.
  5. Lawyers aren't idiots. This is the law. If the FTC and the Justice Department sue Apple, or Google, or these lawyers do so... or attract a corporate whistleblower for a legal reward... the court will apply the legal elements to Apple Pay and make a decision. It won't be: sue the lawyers, Apple is always right, Google is stealing my info so I pay Apple to do it instead, let me install XBOX on my Playstation. It will probably be and only be a single firm review of Apple's Apple Pay business conduct.
Apple worked for 7 years to develop Apple Pay and increase its acceptance. They invested a lot of resources into developing a platform that US customers want use and provide additional security by requiring biometric verification at the point of sale.
 
The point is ppl bought an iPhone and should be able to install other apps that use the NFC.
I bought an iPhone for the privacy/security. If I wanted to have my personal life vacuumed up I’d buy an Android phone and use Google services. My right to privacy trumps these greedy banks/card companies who want to find yet ANOTHER way to profit off me.
 
The only reason Google doesn't charge is because they are making money off mining the data of it's google pay users. Apple and google both have costs associated with the service. The reason apple charges is because they don't make money off of your purchase data but still need to cover those costs. The two companies have different business models and therefore charge different rates for similar services. Google is giving away something for free that it pays for specifically because they want to get user data. Apple can't give it away for free because they aren't making money off the data and therefore look like the bad guy for doing so.

Google is an advertising company. Period. Everything else they do just supports their advertising business.
 
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This is crap. where does this stop? My Milwaukee batteries don’t fit DeWalt tools or Ryobi or Kobalt. Do we make them all make the batteries and tools interchangeabl? At what point does stuff like this stop?
Actually, I would like that. It would make choosing drills and saws less an exercise in compromise. I could have some dewalt, some Makita, some Milwaukee... and I wouldn't feel obligated to stick to one brand when another might make a better saw than their drills. All the batteries fitting each others tools is a great idea. It would also create more competition, and therefore lower prices on the batteries.
 
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They're not calling for Apple Pay to be available on other devices. So Apple Pay can still be an exclusive iOS feature. This isn't like iMessage or FaceTime where you really can only interact with other iOS users (at least while utilizing all of the functionality). Tap-to-pay is very straightforward, it's basically just your phone or watch emulating a tap-to-pay credit card from the perspective of the terminal. So I'm not sure what Apple can offer to make Apple Pay a better "exclusive" feature other than maybe some kind of built in purchase insurance (which basically all CC's already offer - and they're not charging enough for debit card transactions to make it viable for that side). If Google Pay truly is zero-fee, it definitely doesn't look too good for Apple to charge fees on top of the credit card processor fees.
Google pay isnt free, it’s just not charging money. Google’s interest is the transaction data
 
Apple worked for 7 years to develop Apple Pay and increase its acceptance. They invested a lot of resources into developing a platform that US customers want use and provide additional security by requiring biometric verification at the point of sale.
Let's use a real example. Apple and Microsoft and the standard video format. Microsoft and Apple both invested a lot of time and resources to have people use .mov and DirectX. They both convinced users and businesses these developments were secure, tested, efficient, and adaptable. They even tried to convince each other to cooperate to make things easier for interoperability and efficiency.

What did the court think, when it compared DirectX and .mov to Internet Explorer? It sort of thought like it could think about Apple Pay one day. The reasoning for why predatory and exclusionary pressure on the market to maintain a "durable" position is irrelevant. The product can be incredible, but also irrelevant after seven years of marketing in terms of illegal monopolization. The question is whether Apple's techniques and practices are limiting market participation generally. It has nothing to do with Apple Pay's qualifications or Apple's business acumen if the effect violates trade laws, which no one knows yet. There is Google, Samsung, and Apple Pay... maybe Wells Fargo VISA PayPal-Mo would be a good consumer option, if it could use the simple Apple Pay system:
...

"The discussions over multimedia playback software culminated in a meeting between executives from Microsoft and Apple executives, including Apple CEO, Steve Jobs, at Apple's headquarters on June 15, 1998. Microsoft's objective at the meeting was to secure Apple's commitment to abandon the development of multimedia playback software for Windows. At the meeting, one of the Microsoft executives, Eric Engstrom, said that he hoped the two companies could agree on a single configuration of software to play multimedia content on Windows. He added, significantly, that any unified multimedia playback software for Windows would have to be based on DirectX. If Apple would agree to make DirectX the standard, Microsoft would be willing to do several things that Apple might find beneficial...

"Jobs reserved comment during the meeting with the Microsoft representatives, but he explicitly rejected Microsoft's proposal a few weeks later. Had Apple accepted Microsoft's proposal, Microsoft would have succeeded in limiting substantially the cross-platform development of multimedia content. In addition, Apple's future success in marketing authoring tools for Windows 95 would have become dependent on Microsoft's ongoing cooperation, for those tools would have relied on the DirectX technologies under Microsoft's control.

"Apple's surrender of the multimedia playback business might have helped users in the short term by resolving existing incompatibilities in the arena of multimedia software. In the long run, however, the departure of an experienced, innovative competitor would not have tended to benefit users of multimedia content. At any rate, the primary motivation behind Microsoft's proposal to Apple was not the resolution of incompatibilities that frustrated consumers and stymied content development. Rather, Microsoft's motivation was its desire to limit as much as possible the development of multimedia content that would run cross-platform.
 
Is Samsung Pay only available on Samsung devices or do other Android phones have access to it? I am not trying to be snarky, genuinely curious.
Samsung pay is available on non-Samsung devices. Samsung is the loser if it does not put it on other phones. The issue is not that Apple pay is not available on other devices. The issue is that Apple does not allow other payment services access to NFC on iPhone and limits it to Apple pay. While Samsung Pay is available on Samsung phones, NFC access is not exclusive to it. Other payment services can access it. Similarly, if Samsung Pay were to be on OnePlus or Sony phones, it would have access to NFC on those phones too.

 
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Does Samsung Pay work on non-Samsung devices? Does Google Pay work on any devices other than Android? This isn’t about consumers, it’s about bank issuers complaining about terms they agreed to, to be on Apple Pay years ago. They chose to be on the platform and didn’t complain about the terms at the time. No consumer cares about having Google Pay or Samsung Pay on their iPhone and vice versa. Since the functionality is basically the same, why would anyone want to use something else than what is already provided by the platform? It’s only about card issuers and them wanting more profits.
Samsung Pay works on other devices. Google pay is not allowed by iOS to work so it does not work. That is Apple's fault, not Google's.
 
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