Apple Sued Over Automatic iOS 7 Downloads to iOS 6-Powered Devices

[JohnDoe98]

Unless you can point to a breach of some specific contractual term in the Eula there is no cause if action. The suit is nonsense.

Why does someone need to show a breach with the EULA? The issue concerns the advertised capacity of the device. When the iPhone is purchased, it states in the documentation that the capacity might be less due to formatting of the device, not because of subsequent forced downloads that have nothing to do with the formatting. Furthermore, no where in the iOS 6 license/terms of use, does Apple reserve the right to reduce the capacity of the device beyond what is necessary to format the drive. Did you even read the EULA?

The EULA for iOS 6 says that Apple "may make future iOS software updates available". Great, make them available to me, but that does not imply that I consent to having those updates pre-downloaded. So if the update actually consumes 3gbs of storage space (and this isn't formatting related), then Apple is reducing my storage capacity by 3gbs. Apple is guilty of false advertising.

I'm pretty sure there are consumer protections laws against someone selling me a device with capacity X GBs and subsequently making only X-3 GBs available.

 

[aristotle]

Lol...this isn't Occupy Apple, and they are not the goverment, nor a democracy. You "vote" by not buying. Besides that, you have no say in what they choose to do, but the one thing You don't do is support them by buying their products and then complain about them until they are who you hoped they'd be. OS7 has been known about for about 6 months. Plenty of time for you to buy a Samsung.

This is a company that makes shiny retail devices for consumers to play with. Nobody needs a $700 phone. It's called perspective. Go get a massage or something.

Tell you what buddy? Why don't you go play somewhere else? This is a serious issue for businesses that have apps that have not been updated or certified to work on iOS 7.

Some people actually work for a living. I know that might be hard for some of you to grasp.


Many businesses have rolled out iPhones but they might not have updated their software to work with iOS 7 so the issue here are for "existing" iPhones that came with iOS 6.

Apple should not be automatically downloading iOS 7 onto iOS 6 devices. The automatic downloading is the problem here when going from a major version to another major version.

The adults here are trying to have a serious conversation.

 

[CosmoCopus]

Exactly this. People insisting on sticking with iOS 6 really get under my skin. There's no need for it, regardless of what bonkers statistics and things you can come up with for why it's better than iOS 7. Update and live in the current.

I'm watching "Unfaithful" on REELZ right now. Does that get under your skin too?

 

[syd430]

Breaking:

A BMW service rep just went under my car parked on the street and swapped my fuel tank for a lower capacity one, without my consent. According to half this board, there should be no repercussions for BMW and the only correct remedy for me is to sell my car and purchase a Mercedes.

 

[2IS]

Go get 'em Mark! I'm with this guy. I know it's not a popular opinion around here, seeing how successful Apple has been at brainwashing their base, but options and choice are two words that are still in my vocabulary.

 

[legioxi]

50 dollars? Really?

Presumably that is the minimum for small claims court. His actual goal is to have the option of not wasting 3GB on software he has no plans on using.

This seems like a good use of the courts. Unlike a 3 million dollar lawsuit over hot coffee or something. Considering this is near half an iPhone 4's 8GB limit it seems like a just lawsuit.

 

[kalsta]

Or just update to iOS 7 and get over it...

Exactly this. People insisting on sticking with iOS 6 really get under my skin. There's no need for it, regardless of what bonkers statistics and things you can come up with for why it's better than iOS 7. Update and live in the current.

Seriously, who's up-voting these guys?

VE VILL NOT TOLERATE ZIS! YOU VILL DOWNLOADEN IO7 IMMEDIATELY! AND YOU VILL LIKE IT!!!

 

[MaSx]

Seriously - what has this world come to

People sue for just about anything when they're bored, don't they?

Or just update to iOS 7 and get over it...

Simple solution: Install the iOS 7 download and get over yourself. iOS 7 is great, live in the now and not in the past.

^^ are the reasons why people thinks Apple fanboys are too stupid, too dumb and too blind to see anything beside what Apple throws at them.

Why should you be forced to download or upgraded to something you "DO NOT WANT"? I am not saying that he should go that far to file a lawsuit, instead could of gone to the store and have them take care of it. (Assuming he did not do it, unless he did and they told him "too bad" which is unlikely..they probably would have given him a new phone *Maybe*)

Swytch, too many PRO Apple here to say they are not fanboys. I love Apple products but that doesn't mean I will let them slide on just about everything. There are way too many people here that does that. You will see them over and over supporting or backing Apple.

The fun part is when Apple screws up or does something they shouldn't, the same people gives them a pass and a pad in the back instead of telling it how it should be. In addition, you're less likely to see any comments on a thread that states "Apple screwed up, or oops" but if it's something like this? You will find over 100~200 comments backing Apple.

Yeah...they shouldn't be called Fanboys.

 

[6749974]

Apple (and other vendors but this is an Apple centric discussion) frequently sell devices such as iPhones and iPads and then unilaterally and without the purchaser's informed consent willfully alter or delete functionality on the purchased device.

This is as though I sell you a claw hammer and then in the dark of night I enter your toolshed and replace the hammer with a ball-pean hammer - thus rendering it useless for tasks requiring a claw.

A specific case of this with Apple is the situation with the total loss of functionality w.r.t. audioBooks (.m4b) since iOS 5 up to iOS 7 on iPad and now iPhone as well.

There is NO remedy provided and no warning or notice regarding the change - in this case removal of functionality - iOS 5 Music.app on iPad doesn't support audiobook chapters

Now in the case at hand a law suit is probably futile but it may be a great way of shining a light on this cavalier disregard for the buyer.

It is not legal to wantonly render a device useless for a task which it was able to perform to the buyer's satisfaction at the time of purchase wihtout providing a means to restore the device to its original functioning. This is an implied contract and it is perfectly reasonable to test this in court not withstanding any claims Apple may make to fitness and merchantability in the EULA. Here we are talking of a capability of the device that was present at the time of purchase (3 GB of space or ability to usefully play audiobooks) which was later unilaterally deleted without remedy.

Lawyer?

I agree. Anyone with sense of value and consumer rights would. I'm surprised people think taking 3GB of 16GB without a solution ( easy for Apple with their thousands of programmers and engineers) is perfectly ok.

It's hard to manage just 16GB. I couldn't imagine if it was rendered to 13GB effectively. It's less of my favorite albums or less of my favorite apps that I could have, for what? Because Apple can't be bothered to put a delete button in the settings somewhere?

This is such an easy fix.

And the guy wasn't suing for millions. He's just getting Apples attention. Good for him.

99% of the time us MacRumors community members are being whiny, entitled brats, and no one self-realizes. The one time Apple blatantly violates a consumer right, anyone expressing discontent is being called a whiny and entitled brat. "Just upgrade to iOS 7!" Wut? I'm an early adopter type, but I can't hate on the iPhone 4/s friends that would rather wait until Apple fixes the battery drain issue.

 

[the8thark]

Steve Jobs was reportedly rough on company employees in pursuit of happy customers, but Tim Cook apparently cultivates a culture of contempt for customer satisfaction in pursuit of corporate profits. It is a policy that will eventually fail.

I would disagree. Jobs would never public apologise for any mistake. Tim Cook has because Cook believes that the customer knows Apple is not perfect and they like to know that Apple are willing to admit their mistakes too.

Jobs was just like Cook is now, aiming for the best purchasing experience and the best post sales support experience. The difference is only one of them was willing to admit their mistakes to the public. Jobs did not formally apologise for Mobile Me or Ping. But Cook did apologise for Maps (even though it was even Cook's fault). And it was Schiller or one of them that apologised for attempting to deviate from always achieving EPAT gold status.

The article quoted in the original article here I would assume wrong. I can't prove this but history makes me believe this.

 

[syd430]

Seriously, who's up-voting these guys?

VE VILL NOT TOLERATE ZIS! YOU VILL DOWNLOADEN IO7 IMMEDIATELY! AND YOU VILL LIKE IT!!!

Image

And... there's Godwin's law. It was running a little late in this thread.

 

[citi]

Tell you what buddy? Why don't you go play somewhere else? This is a serious issue for businesses that have apps that have not been updated or certified to work on iOS 7.

Some people actually work for a living. I know that might be hard for some of you to grasp.


Many businesses have rolled out iPhones but they might not have updated their software to work with iOS 7 so the issue here are for "existing" iPhones that came with iOS 6.

Apple should not be automatically downloading iOS 7 onto iOS 6 devices. The automatic downloading is the problem here when going from a major version to another major version.

The adults here are trying to have a serious conversation.

When you become an adult, come back and talk to me. Everything you are saying here is childish.

 

[the8thark]

99% of the time us MacRumors community members are being whiny, entitled brats, and no one self-realizes. The one time Apple blatantly violates a consumer right, anyone expressing discontent is being called a whiny and entitled brat. "Just upgrade to iOS 7!" Wut? I'm an early adopter type, but I can't hate on the iPhone 4/s friends that would rather wait until Apple fixes the battery drain issue.

I agree. And the articles written here reflect this at times. The write "we expect this and Apple should do that" over and over. I very rarely see articles written about saying thank you for everything Apple has done. It's not hard to be thankful for all the things done to improve our lives by Apple once in a while.

If people want to upgrade on day one, go ahead, that's great. if people do not want to update on day one, that is fine too, Apple should not force them to do so. Seriously iOS7 is that good, that people would want to upgrade asap anyways. Forcing the issue in the way Apple did is immoral and possibly illegal. I'm sure the legal experts here will say if it's illegal or not.

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Seriously, who's up-voting these guys?

VE VILL NOT TOLERATE ZIS! YOU VILL DOWNLOADEN IO7 IMMEDIATELY! AND YOU VILL LIKE IT!!!

Image

The voting process here is broken. The trolls can upvote all the crap as much as they like and the bad pots can not be downvoted as they deserve.

 

[MaSx]

When you become an adult, come back and talk to me. Everything you are saying here is childish.

You two understand each other so well, not far from being a child yourself.

..Saying...childish *facepalm*

 

[dynamojoe]

It's probably unpopular here, but I agree with the guy. If he doesn't want to upgrade to iOS 7, that's certainly his right. He shouldn't be forced to lose 3GB of storage just because Apple says so, especially considering the markup Apple commands for storage on iOS devices. There should be a way to not download unwanted updates and to remove those that are already downloaded. A lawsuit is probably the only way to get Apple's attention on the matter. Without it he's just another person screaming at tech support.

What I worry about is probably something his lawyer is salivating over: class-action status. I hate class action lawsuits since they usually benefit the lawyers more than anyone else.

 

[kalsta]

And... there's Godwin's law. It was running a little late in this thread.

Ha ha! Okay, I had to look that up… but nice. Let it be known however, that in 1,224 posts, that was my first Nazi joke. (I think!?)

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The voting process here is broken. The trolls can upvote all the crap as much as they like and the bad pots can not be downvoted as they deserve.

Not sure if I'd call them 'trolls' in this instance, but you're right… this is most likely an instance where down-voting would have evened things out. And the current system heavily favours those commenters who get in on page one. Express a strong opinion of any kind near the top of page one, and you're half-way to being in the top-rated comments.

 

[grundoon]

317 posts and only 2 mentioned developers.

Xcode 5 was released the same day as iOS 7. One of its big new features is the ability to develop for both pre-iOS 7 and iOS 7 side-by-side - a simple toggle to test against both interfaces. Less than a week later, most of those iOS devices we keep around for actual on-device testing suddenly had iOS 7 downloaded to them. In many cases, not just downloaded, but auto-installed. As of course were the very end-user devices for which we had devoted considerable development resources.

It's not just about personal preference, performance, minimal free storage and the like. It was a complete cock-up.

"Suck it up and install." Yeah, that solves everything.

 

[terrymr]

yep, I got the same thing on my iphone, definitely bigger than the 752mb listed.

for new phones & ipads, they should have to have usable space for the size stated, ie 16GB should be just that, needs to take in effect the unusable space and make up for it

You'll be very disapointed if you buy a microsoft product then.

 

[2IS]

Ha ha! Okay, I had to look that up… but nice. Let it be known however, that in 1,224 posts, that was my first Nazi joke. (I think!?)

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Not sure if I'd call them 'trolls' in this instance, but you're right… this is most likely an instance where down-voting would have evened things out. And the current system heavily favours those commenters who get in on page one. Express a strong opinion of any kind near the top of page one, and you're half-way to being in the top-rated comments.

The down vote was removed after more level headed people started joining this forum and down voted the Apple enthusiasts. It ended up hurting their feelings and the mods side with the enthusiasts more often than not. Can't tell you how man times I've received infractions or time-outs because I was debating these enthusiasts even though I was the one staying on the topic of Apple devices and they were the ones resorting to personal attacks.

 

[B4U]

And Apple can program the device to automatically download updates without actually breaking any law. And Apple doing so does not prevent you from using it however you want to.

Additionally, just like any other Update to any Software/Hardware/Clothing/Consumer good, there may be downsides to not upgrading. In this case apparently it means you lose disk space until you do upload.

Really all Apple has to do is say that the downloaded update is required to be on the phone in order for iOS6 to continue to function (silly statement but would be valid - and possibly backed by legitimate reasons to support new iOS7-only Apps or APIs)....

Besides, with how much the law enforcement agencies love the new iOS7 anti-theft measures, and trying to get everyone to update for this reason, they will likely applaud apple for trying to force the update (Im not saying this is in any way the right thing to do, but it is probably the sad truth)...

Last time I checked, it was still not legal for me to go inside your home and place a security system / vaccine / bio-chemical protection devices / etc... WITHOUT your authorization.

Theoretically, it is preventing users from using it however they want to. For example, downloading another apps because it ate up all the storage space that would be free to use by the user.

Law enforcement can leave my phone alone...What are they going to do next? Force everyone's vehicle to have OnStar? Lifelock for protection on our credit card?

 

[aristotle]

When you become an adult, come back and talk to me. Everything you are saying here is childish.

As fascinating as that is, I don't see how this is relevant to this discussion. I see that you have no interest in addressing what businesses should do and you have no interest in providing reasoning behind your unflinching support for upgrading to iOS 7.0 despite application incompatibility and the costs that would be involved in updating in-house applications to work with iOS 7.

I'll just put you on my ignore list for now and prepare for my next business trip.

Have a nice day.

 

[\-V-/]

Presumably that is the minimum for small claims court. His actual goal is to have the option of not wasting 3GB on software he has no plans on using.

This seems like a good use of the courts. Unlike a 3 million dollar lawsuit over hot coffee or something. Considering this is near half an iPhone 4's 8GB limit it seems like a just lawsuit.

I see. Well I hope he gets that 50 dollars back.

I don't like things being forced upon me either, so I hope Apple does in fact make this an "optional" install come iOS 8. I'm fortunate enough that my most used software was updated for iOS 7 compatibility right from the start. There are a couple apps that just plain won't open in iOS 7, but that's not really Apple's fault... that's the lazy devs fault that haven't updated their apps in two years. That bothers me more than anything is devs leaving a pricetag on their app despite discontinued development. It's like... if you're not pursuing your project anymore, make it free, at least. >_>

 

[JoeG4]

I can't think of a single developed country in the world with even the most rudimentary consumer laws where this would be legal.

In my country, this would most definitely be illegal.

It *should* be illegal, but in theory Apple is selling you the hardware but licensing to you the software necessary to use the hardware.

The problem with that is that in order to use your iPhone, you must agree to the EULA for the software. If you disagree with the EULA, your phone is a brick.

In theory that means that they could make an EULA where your license to the current version of iOS expires when the next version comes out. Therefore, your phone could become inoperable unless you update.

What would be kinda sketchy is if they changed the EULA terms to become more restrictive on newer builds of iOS but you were forced to update.

 

[cclloyd]

Simple solution: Install the iOS 7 download and get over yourself. iOS 7 is great, live in the now and not in the past.

Join us in the future.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

This is a pretty silly lawsuit, in my opinion, but at the same time these updates are huge and it is pretty annoying to suddenly lose so much space especially on the 16GB iPad and other devices with precious little storage. This could also really screw over people with expensive and small data plans, such as home 3G plans that are the only plans available in some areas.