Apple Sues Tiger Leaks

[tveric]

The harm could come from software competitors who could preview Tiger-only features before the actual release, giving them more time to integrate them, perhaps before even the actual release of Tiger (and than claiming they invented/innovated it themselves).

Sounds familiar?

And those same competitors - they probably couldn't just buy a $500 developer membership and get a pre-release copy of Tiger anyway, right?

Again, please think before you post. Thank you, that is all.

 

[liketom]

And those same evil people that you've so worried about could never get a copy of Tiger by just buying a developer membership, right?

Think about the logic of your argument next time BEFORE you post it.

there was once a chap who said he had already done the widgets thingy what was his name?????? remember at WWDC

 

[Yvan256]

And those same competitors - they probably couldn't just buy a $500 developer membership and get a pre-release copy of Tiger anyway, right?

Again, please think before you post. Thank you, that is all.

I'm not sure, but I think that getting an ADC membership requires some sort of NDA. So even if you worked for someone else, you couldn't tell your boss/company about what you saw/learned.

Please think before you post. Thank you, that is all.

 

[Roller]

Yeah, and you never go over the posted speed limit, either.

Try saying that to the cop if you're ever pulled over for speeding.

Driving over the speed limit and distributing a Tiger beta are both illegal, no matter what you and I think about it. In either case, you should be prepared to pay the penalty if you're caught.

(Personally, I think it would be counter-productive for Apple to force some poor developer into debt fighting this suit.)

 

[tveric]

I'm not sure, but I think that getting an ADC membership requires some sort of NDA. So even if you worked for someone else, you couldn't tell your boss/company about what you saw/learned.

"I'm not sure" telling everyone all they need to know, right there.

Okay, let's assume you're right, for laughs. So your logic is, the same guy, that you're so worried about, that would download a copy of Tiger for free, and then "copy" features and pass them off as his own (which he couldn't possibly do anyway because Apple's already copyrighted/patented everything in Tiger) would then be STOPPED by the NDA from doing the same thing if he paid $500?

On the logic scale of 1 to 10, that rates about a negative 2. I AM thinking - at this point, sounds like you're just reaching for anything that will allow you to make a snappy comeback, whether it makes sense or not.

 

[Laslo Panaflex]

Apple is stupid on this one

I see no need for them to sue over an alpha OS getting leaked on the internet. Like it has been said here before, if malicious people want to get their hands on it, they will. As for divulging trade secrets, Apple is selling the Alpha through its developers membership, so if anyone is divulging secrets, its Apple.

I know it's wrong to leak and download tiger, I get that, but this is wasted energy. Maybe they should go after people that upload final versions of their software, like FCP and motion and the like? I mean, what's to stop them from sueing everyone. The fact of the matter is, no secrets are being taken advantage of, Tiger has been out on public display for 6 months. This is about Apple getting pissed at "developers" who really are college aged developers with little money and want to help other broke college aged and highschool aged developers.

/Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers

 

[liketom]

"I'm not sure" telling everyone all they need to know, right there.

Okay, let's assume you're right, for laughs. So your logic is, the same guy, that you're so worried about, that would download a copy of Tiger for free, and then "copy" features and pass them off as his own (which he couldn't possibly do anyway because Apple's already copyrighted/patented everything in Tiger) would then be STOPPED by the NDA from doing the same thing if he paid $500?

On the logic scale of 1 to 10, that rates about a negative 2. I AM thinking - at this point, sounds like you're just reaching for anything that will allow you to make a snappy comeback, whether it makes sense or not.

i think people are getting worried cos they happen to have a Copy of Tiger 10.4 running on there Mac right now! and are busy restoring to Panther !

besides apple will no when you do a software update or visit there website

 

[Yvan256]

"I'm not sure" telling everyone all they need to know, right there.

I'm not gonna say "I know for a fact" when I really don't know. I'm not sure why you're even flaming me on that.

Okay, let's assume you're right, for laughs.

Again with the needless flaming.

So your logic is, the same guy, that you're so worried about, that would download a copy of Tiger for free, and then "copy" features and pass them off as his own (which he couldn't possibly do anyway because Apple's already copyrighted/patented everything in Tiger) would then be STOPPED by the NDA from doing the same thing if he paid $500?

If Apple really was sure they're covered with all the copyrighted/patented stuff, why would they require the NDA in the first place? Microsoft keeps copying everything Apple does, and Microsoft are crazy enough to claim some stuff as their own (do a bit of research on "ClearType", for exemple).

On the logic scale of 1 to 10, that rates about a negative 2. I AM thinking - at this point, sounds like you're just reaching for anything that will allow you to make a snappy comeback, whether it makes sense or not.

And with all the nasty comments in your reply, all I see is that you're really not a nice person to be talking to.

 

[tveric]

Try saying that to the cop if you're ever pulled over for speeding.

Driving over the speed limit and distributing a Tiger beta are both illegal, no matter what you and I think about it. In either case, you should be prepared to pay the penalty if you're caught.

(Personally, I think it would be counter-productive for Apple to force some poor developer into debt fighting this suit.)

I agree with you there... DISTRIBUTING is most definitely illegal and those guys will probably pay the penalty. My point was that DOWNLOADING the beta equates to about the same harm as doing 60 mph in a 55 zone - not much. My other point was that this won't stop other people from doing the same thing in the future.

I guess all the rah-rah go-apple-sue-those-guys got to me, because I can't stand the goody-two-shoes types. I buy my official software, but I did download and install the pre-release Tiger, and I hurt no one by doing so. The guys that posted it took a risk, and it appears that they got caught. Will this stop future versions from being released on the net? Not a chance.

 

[liketom]

Ibut I did download and install the pre-release Tiger, and I hurt no one by doing so. The guys that posted it took a risk, and it appears that they got caught. Will this stop future versions from being released on the net? Not a chance.

there it is right there ! this is what apple is trying to stamp out on

 

[jared_kipe]

On the logic scale of 1 to 10, that rates about a negative 2. I AM thinking - at this point, sounds like you're just reaching for anything that will allow you to make a snappy comeback, whether it makes sense or not.

Easy there buddy, just because you're right doesn't mean you need to insult anybody here.

For me, I downloaded the Tiger preview, but not the most recent one. It is like owning a piece of history, like having a copy of windows 95 even when you know you're not going to use it. Isn't beta software grand?

 

[kcmac]

I don't have any problems with what Apple is doing recently. I do have a question though.

Doesn't MS and other big house developers get this type of info so they can make sure Office, etc. will work when Tiger hits the street? How does Apple keep the exciting features away from them during this time period?

 

[swissmann]

I am glad they are cracking down. I try my hardest to keep my two man business clean by buying all the software we use. That is a lot of software especially when you spread it across 3 computers. I estimate it is around $10,000. For a small business like mine that is a lot of cash. I truly believe that if pirated software did not exist the prices of software could and probably would be a lot less. As it is I am stuck in a tough place to make decisions. If you use it - buy it!

 

[Surreal]

just for comparison...

i am a huge advocate of propellerheads's Reason.

3.0 is in beta right now... and i signed up...but havent got an email yet.

i COULD download the beta from these stupid sites...but i KNOW it would be destructivbe as opposed to constructive.

the beta is made so that people can find bugs. if i HAVE the beta..but am NOT telling prop's about bugs.,..then props doesnt want me to have the beta. and i understand that.


Tiger
DEVELOPERS are supposed to have it, and are suposed to find bugs that will harm their work. why would apple want me...not a developer...to have the software before it is finished?

 

[liketom]

I truly believe that if pirated software did not exist the prices of software could and probably would be a lot less. As it is I am stuck in a tough place to make decisions. If you use it - buy it!

i do not agree , i can never see the likes of Microsoft droping prices ??? are you mad it is just a reason to keep prices high / cd's/dvd ect

 

[Super Dave]

How is another "alpha/beta release" teasing users? All this tells you is they're still working on it. You know Tiger is coming for 2005, just hang in there.

Man, it says you're from Canada, but we're from different planets. I'm alpha crazy when it comes to new OSes. I NEED them like an addict needs.... stuff.

David

 

[Bear]

damn, i may take my copy offline is apple is going to do stuff like this, i sit behind a proxy but i don't want to take any chances

edit: i wont post again as i dont want to get into a flame war as i have very strong views on this so please dont quote me with angry posts about morality.

Of course you posting this is an invitation for Apple to track you down.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

just for comparison...

i am a huge advocate of propellerheads's Reason.

3.0 is in beta right now... and i signed up...but havent got an email yet.

i COULD download the beta from these stupid sites...but i KNOW it would be destructivbe as opposed to constructive.

the beta is made so that people can find bugs. if i HAVE the beta..but am NOT telling prop's about bugs.,..then props doesnt want me to have the beta. and i understand that.


Tiger DEVELOPERS are supposed to have it, and are suposed to find bugs that will harm their work. why would apple want me...not a developer...to have the software before it is finished?

I agree with your reasoning 100%. Apple is simply upholding their end of their NDA with ADC members.

 

[~Shard~]

What, exactly, is wrong with downloading a pre-release, buggy Tiger that's not for sale, if I intend to buy the real Tiger when it comes out anyway?

I was going to reply with various reasons why it is wrong (it's ILLEGAL, idustrial espionage, EULA violation, etc.) but I see that many people have already beat me to the punch and informed you of this, so hopefully you see the light now.

And from a purely legal standpoint, yes, going 5 km over the speed limit is illegal. Case closed. Whether everyone does it, or it doesn't matter, yadda yadda, it's a moot point. Just like downloading software, it's illegal. Done.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

I was going to reply with various reasons why it is wrong (it's ILLEGAL, idustrial espionage, EULA violation, etc.) but I see that many people have already beat me to the punch and informed you of this, so hopefully you see the light now.

And from a purely legal standpoint, yes, going 5 km over the speed limit is illegal. Case closed. Whether everyone does it, or it doesn't matter, yadda yadda, it's a moot point. Just like downloading software, it's illegal. Done.

You are correct there - the reason people get away with these things is lax or delayed enforcement. Also, both speeding infractions and software download infractions aren't always spotted right away, increasing the chances of breaking the law and getting away with it. Not that I condone breaking software and speeding laws...

 

[Bear]

I am glad they are cracking down. I try my hardest to keep my two man business clean by buying all the software we use. That is a lot of software especially when you spread it across 3 computers. I estimate it is around $10,000. For a small business like mine that is a lot of cash. I truly believe that if pirated software did not exist the prices of software could and probably would be a lot less. As it is I am stuck in a tough place to make decisions. If you use it - buy it!

Nicely said. I'm glad some of the stuff I wanted has demo versions, so I could evaluate before paying for them.

You do need to check licenses to see if one copy will cover the same person on a desktop and a laptop. (Photoshop for one allows this where the primary user on both machines is the same person.) This saves me a small bundle. Some shareware has the same type of licenses. Also, even for 3 computers, some software has a site license that will be cost effective.

I wish Apple had family licenses for more products, it does save a small bundle in software costs.

 

[ifjake]

there's not too fine a line between downloading the beta or alpha release and downloading the full version. if you're just too impatient, there's plenty of sites around that have pictures and articles online to spoil it for you. i think it would be ridiculous for someone to get like that. some people need a hobby or something that requires them to get away from the computer for a while. it's a beautiful day outside. go play.

 

[tveric]

I was going to reply with various reasons why it is wrong (it's ILLEGAL, idustrial espionage, EULA violation, etc.) but I see that many people have already beat me to the punch and informed you of this, so hopefully you see the light now.

And from a purely legal standpoint, yes, going 5 km over the speed limit is illegal. Case closed. Whether everyone does it, or it doesn't matter, yadda yadda, it's a moot point. Just like downloading software, it's illegal. Done.

Yeah, you missed my point, as well. I agreed that both are technically illegal - that's why I drew the parallel. Get it?

Now, that being said, what's the real world harm in someone doing 60 in a 55? Virtually none, so that's why you don't get a ticket 99% of the time for doing that. There's also no real world harm in me downloading the Tiger beta and installing it on my laptop for fun.

I agree that people posting the beta on the net is not in Apple's best interest, and the guys that did it were taking a gamble and it appears they lost. My point regarding such actions was that Apple suing these guys is not going to stop future versions from being posted. You may disagree, but take it from someone that's been downloading for a while, it's only gotten easier, not harder. Hence my disdain for the Apple Legal Cheerleading Team that has appeared in force in this thread.

Maybe I'm making too much of it - but then, aren't we all, just by posting here in the first place?

 

[~Shard~]

You are correct there - the reason people get away with these things is lax or delayed enforcement. Also, both speeding infractions and software download infractions aren't always spotted right away, increasing the chances of breaking the law and getting away with it. Not that I condone breaking software and speeding laws...

Exactly - people are more prone to doing things when the risk of getting caught is low. That doesn't make it right though.

A thief who has never been caught is still a thief. Likewise, a thief who has never been given the chance to steal is still a thief.

 

[SeaFox]

I'm not sure, but I think that getting an ADC membership requires some sort of NDA. So even if you worked for someone else, you couldn't tell your boss/company about what you saw/learned.

Wouldn't Apple have to prove that you talked to the other party?

Really, people are all worried about Microsoft copying OSX, when they are probably one of the first developers to get prerelease copies of Tiger, seeing as they develop Microsoft Office for Macintosh and all.

But nooooooooooo. I'm sure the MBU and the Windows team never chat amongest themselves. We can trust Microsoft to honor NDA's and such, Microsoft is all about fair competition.