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Maybe we will all laugh and point at me in a few years. But it's ok, I'm used to it.

So, billions with a b. That's a lot of money. Out of interest, how much do you think Apple spent on the Watch's research, development, design, prototypes, testing, software development, international marketing, TV advertising, billboards, magazine adverts, manufacture, shipping, staff training...

Suddenly, that b doesn't seem all that impressive. When Apple release sales figures and profit margins, I'll gladly shut up. But until then, I'm confident the Watch has not sold well and has cost Apple dearly in profits, share value and reputation.

Really, shut up? I doubt that very very much. I'm saving this post by the way; too many people make these types of promises and don't pay up.
 
I think investors are mostly interested in dollars received over units shipped. Some may be making longer term strategic decisions anticipating declining growth in the iPhone and wondering what will continue to power the company but if they're that savvy they almost certainly realize there's nothing to be learned from supply constrained first quarter data.

I think most of the people counting units are people in forums like this that have picked a team and want to shout "we win" at shadows of data.

I'll say this: at least Rogifan counters with thoughtful arguments rather than the "yes it is!", "no it isn't", "yeah, well Samsung!" nonsense that fills most of these threads.

As you say, there's very little new data and what data there is is mostly estimates based on expected correlations with other numbers that are extrapolated from year ago web analytics, blah, blah, blah. Based on that, people in the forums make absurd assertions. I think most of them are probably bait by lonely people who hope saying "Apple watch is a bag of hurt" will get someone to talk to them, even if it's just to say "yeah, well at least it's thinner than Samsung's bag", but some of the posters might have something interesting to say and just haven't figure out how to formulate the argument yet.

Engaging a few of these people with a reasoned response, or watching Rogifan do it, makes the forum a more interesting place. Calling out the nonsense also encourages people to be ready to support their assertions with complete thoughts.

I think that's why they equipped this place with a reply button in the first place.

And the thumbs up button. I miss the thumbs down button.
 
What a thread. So much emotion over logic. Tim is a Great COO, and a Terrible CEO. No vision, no soul. Profits, dividends, and happy shareholders. Nothing else. The Apple Watch will never make it past V2. Apple Music is the worst written Software in Apple's history.

Steve is face down in his grave. It may be too late to save Apple. Jony needs to separate himself in every possible way from Tim, and Eddy. It's up to him and Newsome. I would not be surprised to see Phil leave within 12m. :apple:
Not sure yours qualifies as a logical, emotionless post but if we're going to try and make this all about a few key execs and a dead man, I've been moving towards this opinion:

With Jobs' passing, I think design was handed to Ive and the business to Cook the way it would be in a more traditional company.

Ive is a great designer, but he really benefitted from Jobs challenging him and I think Jobs became the only one who could. I'm guessing he wasn't made CEO because he either wasn't interested in, or capable of, running a business.

I think Cook is a fine CEO in the traditional sense, but Apple's culture was built around Jobs being in everybody's business. I think Cook takes the more divisional approach.

Ive, much like George Lucas, is great at the idea generation and at execution, but needs someone in the meeting to act as a filter in between those stages. When Lucas started the prequels, he really needed someone with the guts and stature to say, "George, I love you, but that's some crazy sh*t you just said out loud." I think Ive needs the same-- but he needs someone to curb his minimalism where Lucas needed someone to curb his excess.
 
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As others have noted on this thread and others, can one really trust the Wall Street Journal any longer? After being acquired by Rupert Murdoch its standards have really dropped and they have gotten a lot of things wrong.

Keep in mind: the WSJ is owned by the same guy that does Fox News. That means hype and sensationalism at the expense of sound journalism. Enough said.
 
You all sure about that Rolex thing in 2015? Nobody will buy a Rolex bec last decades BEC you dont live that long if you are a mature person. So when you buy something for you, THEN buy something for you and not for your legacy.
Rolex it's just a piece of jelewry and thats all...an apple watch is the future and time will tell
Define luxury, the difference between AW ED and a rolex is just the time of lasting thats all..bec both are made from top notch materials thats define the luxury
 
Maybe we will all laugh and point at me in a few years. But it's ok, I'm used to it.

So, billions with a b. That's a lot of money. Out of interest, how much do you think Apple spent on the Watch's research, development, design, prototypes, testing, software development, international marketing, TV advertising, billboards, magazine adverts, manufacture, shipping, staff training...

Suddenly, that b doesn't seem all that impressive. When Apple release sales figures and profit margins, I'll gladly shut up. But until then, I'm confident the Watch has not sold well and has cost Apple dearly in profits, share value and reputation.
Arm chair CEO/CFO much?
 
The craftsmanship and skill that represents the pinnacle of watchmaking is usually associated with mechanical watches and not a kiddinh digital watch that requires charging every couple of days.

The finest automatics rank among the most intricate machines in the world and watchmakers continue to vie with each other to make mechanical movements ever more elegant and ingenious by incorporating all sorts of added ‘complications’ or features. The most expensive mechanical watches cost several hundred thousand pounds (think Rado, Rolex) or even millions.

I own a Rado Diastar with 11 diamonds and it looks great and classy. I don't want to be shown as someone who is tapping glass of his watch multiple times.
 
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I own a subm. Rolex and 2x Longines , yes they are looking classy but with time don't tell me that the AW will not improve the design even more ?! living in the past is one thing, i bet you believe in GOD bec your elders inject your brain with that.
A full mechanical watch will be a thing of collection for the collectors and nothing more. You want to show off buy a AW ED, you want to be classy wait 2-3 more years and you will..you want to leave a legacy behind you, yes buy rolex,pp etc but better build your own company, trust me it's even more iconic
 
look at iphone, the hardware is improved, the battery is, the build quality is from iphone 1 to iphone 5 so we expect that Apple watch will improve even more its build quality, battery life, more shapes
 
You all sure about that Rolex thing in 2015? Nobody will buy a Rolex bec last decades BEC you dont live that long if you are a mature person. So when you buy something for you, THEN buy something for you and not for your legacy.
Rolex it's just a piece of jelewry and thats all...an apple watch is the future and time will tell
Define luxury, the difference between AW ED and a rolex is just the time of lasting thats all..bec both are made from top notch materials thats define the luxury

The Apple Watch isn't in the same universe as a Rolex. People who think the Apple Watch is a "luxury" item in the same way that a Rolex is a "luxury" item have no clue about what defines a luxury good. Apple is a consumer electronics company, not a purveyor of luxury goods. The watch is a nifty piece of engineering but it's no high fashion item.
 
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I said it before and I reiterate. The entire market for an Apple watch has theirs already.

I disagree. I think sales are going to really grow. Once they knock a zero off the prices - I'd don't know what I'd do with one, but I'd pay $30 for one just for fun, no problem.
 
The Apple Watch isn't in the same universe as a Rolex. People who think the Apple Watch is a "luxury" item in the same way that a Rolex is a "luxury" item have no clue about what defines a luxury good. Apple is a consumer electronics company, not a purveyor of luxury goods. The watch is a nifty piece of engineering but it's no high fashion item.

Definition of luxury:
:a condition or situation of great comfort, ease, and wealth
: something that is expensive and not necessary- like Apple watch right ?
:something made from top materials -like gold/staineless steel/sapphire right?

Like i said most of you living in the past where 20 years ago a 10-20-50.000$ wasn't at the arm of everybody
These days i know a lot of people fanatics that keep all the salary for the next 5 years and buy a rolex...so the definition above is rock solid

Vertu is a luxury item bec of its OS?nope its an device like Apple watch digital...but because of its materials used in it
 
i'd buy one if it were 99 dollars/pounds but even then, i'd be thinking about it. Maybe Apple just need a price drop to bring it in line with other fitness trackers which have days of battery.. Apple dropped the price of the Apple TV to shift units. They should do the same with the watch considerably. Not a minor drop but make it really appealing.

Even a price drop of only $100 would make it much more appealing.
 
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Actually, the non ending vehement hatred of the watch by frosty and others indicates just how successful the watch is. I love mine. It's almost never off my wrist while awake. With version 2 and 3, the watch will really take off, and the haters will really be in a pickle. How about if we donate a few bucks each to get a watch for frosty. After all, he bashes the watch without ever having used one. frosty, do want a watch for free?

Interesting point.

I don't blame people for not wanting one or worrying that the product isn't good. But there seems to be a strand of people who ignore the headlines about sales numbers, customer satisfaction (especially among non-techy users), market share, Apple Watch sales exceeding apples own expectations etc.
 
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