If you buy the 128GB machine and the memory fails how many billable hours of work do you lose while the Apple Store fixes your machine?
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Apple Surveying iMac Pro Buyers About Key Features
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So you're comparing the specs of a machine released today to one released 13 years ago!? Apple has always had ~$1k laptops. Except back then the $1k had specs of the year it's being sold. Today, the $1k laptop is using parts from 3 years ago.
But n Apple "Pro" machines of the past - such as the old 'Cheese grater' - upgrading things like RAM and hard drives was extremely quick and easy, almost tool-free, even compared to the PC competition.
No, that argument boils down to "it works for me - sucks to be you": being upgradeable doesn't stop you from buying/leasing yours pre-built with everything you're ever going to need over the 3 years it takes you to recover the tax... whereas being non-upgradeable stops everybody from upgrading it.
There are other professional reasons for "upgradeability" too - being able to second-source spares for the most fallible parts (like hard drives), removing hard drives/SSDs for security before sending machines for repair/recycling etc.
The real question for Pros is "how much versatility are you prepared to sacrifice for the sake of size, weight and cosmetic appearance".
Well, no, the real question is "if we sell you an upgradeable machine now, will you still be using it in 10 years time 'cos we need to have sold you at least two replacements by then, but with Moore's law running out of steam we're finding it a bit tricky to grow sales by 20% every year to keep the shareholders happy and we're really riding the tiger on Wall Street right now so getting off could get messy so you'd probably better get used to planned obsolescence and higher prices because we really got our fingers burnt when everybody stuck aftermarket SSDs in their 2011 MacBook Pros and made them last for another 3-4 years, you know..." but they're not likely to get that one past the censors...
Thing is, in the PC world, there's always the option of getting a bespoke machine put together with exactly the spec you specify - whether you DIY or go to a PC builder. The Mac world doesn't have that (most Pros couldn't justify the risk of running an unsupported and technically illegal Hackintosh).
Mental gymnastics, really, when they are asking their very customers what it is they want now?
Henry ford didn’t need to ask because he wasn’t stupid enough to remove a wheel or make a car too thin to fit its components and passengers properly.
Probably been said earlier:
I think they should have directed the survey to the Pro users who were not willing to leave their older hardware for the new offerings. This feels like an oversite from the research group.
I'd be trying to survey the PRO users who have NOT purchased a Pro Machine in the last 5 years.
I was criticizing Apple big time before they finally admitted they screwed up with their Pro machines. Especially the Mac Pro. I am hoping the next interaction of the MP will be what we all want and the iMac Pro, I believe is a solid machine but my only criticism is not allowing an easier way to swap storage and RAM.
I can't wait to see the displays and MP and looking forward in the next 6 months, I hope.
Not gonna happen unless nvidia works with apple on metal support. And im pretty sure they would rather just push cuda
in 2013 every thing was 1080
2016 everything is 4K
2018 now we have cameras for 8K
storage options what does a 2013 offer? what did the pre trashcan offer? 5 drive bays you could fill with SSD and storage. pop in a extra drive and you where good to go .
I like having 2 ssd's 1 os 1 scrub/project . and a mechanical storage for onsite backup. no external wires required
no dongles required.
the 2013 mac pro does not support 5K display . it would be nice to upgrade a video card ... ooh wait apple is not selling them .... but the old intel aluminum PRo you can just pop in any AMD or Nvida card in.... and it works .... dual 5k no problem that's why
the old intel aluminum PRo you can add capture cards , sound cards all internal nice neat . now you need a new box next to your old one for external GPU , external storage exteral PCIE expention ... your desk looks like a Freakshow wires and boxes going every where . .. and the guy with the PC just laughs because is blackbox looks way better with is all inside .
It would be nice if they would give out this survey to more than just the iMac Pro customers. How about asking MacBook Pro or even Mac Mini customers what they want? Maybe if they actually gave customers what they want, they would sell more hardware.
I don't know how true this is anymore - at least for the core.
I am a "pro" user, in that I use my systems for development (very CPU heavy) and also for photography including very large gigapixel panos (memory and GPU and CPU intensive depending).
I was able to use a MacBook Pro from 2013 to the near present, and it was still very useful. That's a mixture of maxing out the specs at the time, and the OS being efficient enough that 16GB of RAM was usable, along with very fast local storage.
I bought an iMac Pro at the start of the year, knowing it was not traditionally upgradable (though you can add more RAM after the fact in a supported way). It doesn't matter to a truly pro user that the core system is not upgradable, because the options for external expansion are so good - even though I maxed out the internal iMac Pro storage, it's not nearly enough to hold all the data I need so I have an external quad bay array connected via Thunderbolt. Even though I may want more GPU someday later (I did max that out as well), my plan there is to get an external GPU - in part because of some machine learning work I'm doing where that would make more sense anyway.
To me the core system in a pro system should be rock solid and really reliable, and there the iMac Pro has done a great job because it has a really good cooling system (that is also quiet), plus great expansion ports. That's all it really needs - I'm hopeful I can get a very solid five years of work from this system.
Macs can be great machines but ergonomics are just bad.
did you ever try adjusting the hight of your IMac pro?
or try to put a USB drive in quick with out getting up?
what about in 2 years time you might need to clean your fans ? does it have dust filters? you go to the apple store bring your computer there to clean? because if you open it you lose your warranty. if you open the bonet of your car to do regular maintenance , check the oil and coolant . many will up your screen wash liquid does your warranty become non valid as well?
if you want a second screen next to your Imac pro does it not Bother you that the second screen is not the same ?
Most pro users use 2 or more screens.
I'm not that up on this sort of thing, other than I thought Nvidia pro graphics cards were the Quadro variants, which I always see specified in various workstations, and so would be what pros want. Aren't the cards mentioned in your post gaming cards? Correct me if I'm wrong.
not entirely confident this survey will help them at this point.
in 2016 they released a MacBook Pro redesign that frustrated a lot of their more demanding user base (you know... the people who would buy a MacBook Pro instead of a MacBook/air). a few months later they made a mild admission to this feedback and the rumours started they were putting together a more powerful machine to address the concerns.
now here we are 2 years later with their attempt to address those concerns, and in doing so they seem to have created a bunch of new problems; most notably they still seem to be "designing themselves into a thermal corner" and now are also making watch processors handle critical system functions, with somewhat predictably mixed results.
I mean... I just want to update my 5 year old Mac and feel confident that the $4k+ asking price will offer me some meaningful productivity gains for my heavier workloads. Instead I'm somehow stuck worrying that after 5 years and around 50% increase in pricing, I might end up with something that could in many ways be a step backwards.
in 2016 they released a MacBook Pro redesign that frustrated a lot of their more demanding user base (you know... the people who would buy a MacBook Pro instead of a MacBook/air). a few months later they made a mild admission to this feedback and the rumours started they were putting together a more powerful machine to address the concerns.
now here we are 2 years later with their attempt to address those concerns, and in doing so they seem to have created a bunch of new problems; most notably they still seem to be "designing themselves into a thermal corner" and now are also making watch processors handle critical system functions, with somewhat predictably mixed results.
I mean... I just want to update my 5 year old Mac and feel confident that the $4k+ asking price will offer me some meaningful productivity gains for my heavier workloads. Instead I'm somehow stuck worrying that after 5 years and around 50% increase in pricing, I might end up with something that could in many ways be a step backwards.
History would say, it's not. Countless Mac Pros (cheese-grater and trash-can alike) went years with zero upgrades before being sold or traded in or otherwise disposed of. The real pros (i.e., the people who buy the most quantity of Mac Pros) probably couldn't care less if it's upgradeable; they're going to order what they need and use it. There is a small, vocal MINORITY of Pro Users who own ONE Mac Pro, and want to keep it upgraded as necessary but in the great scheme of things, you need to understand how small a group you are...
For video production, motion graphics, 3D animation and VFX Nvidia GPUs are a MUST because of CUDA and how many programs, especially 3D render engines, need it. Metal or AMD just doesn't come close.
You know, I really liked the sandy bridge chips. Maybe they could build a new Mac Pro with some of those.
I’ve heard this countless times and every time it’s all presented without any evidence to back it up.
Until Apple decides to return to sanity I cannot see myself buying another Mac anything. I am sure that’s fine with Apple, my loyalties are never towards a company or product so they don’t have much to lose from me.
I thought the Vegas were actually fairly drool-worthy. Is this just brand-bias?
Quadro cards are more about large fast memory support, while gtx cards are about clock speed. Gamers prefer the later, while most productive apps benefit from the former. Most, but not all. I have a 1080TI and a quadro GP100. A lot of what I do is faster on the 100, but some apps, such as photoscan, is much faster on the 1080ti. This is why giving users a choice would be good.
seems so, judging from the screenshot.
Like:
a.) what about things people *dont* like?
b.) what about the precious Mac Pro users, and what they like and don't like?
c.) what about people who are interested in the 2019 Mac Pro but aren't buying the iMac Pro because of things they don't like about it?
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Maybe written by someone who got the Vega early and was caught off by the lack of optimization? But really, an Nvidia fanboy in an Apple forum would be quite a surprise.
The issues you raise are something to think about but not deal breakers for most iMac pro buyers. A dock solves the USB drive issue. The fan cleaning part does seem a real drawback, and I definitely would hesitate on that count. The ifixit tear down did not reveal dust filters. I have the 2013 Mac Pro, and cleaning the dust out of it is a matter of five screws and blowing out the dust. It has an 8 out of 10 repairability rating on ifixit, with 10 being the easiest to repair. I'm sticking with it -- it still performs great for me.