Apple Surveying MacBook Pro Users About Headphone Jack and Other Ports

[Abazigal]

Personally, if you ask me, it makes perfect sense for the next MacBook Pro to sport only USB-C ports and nothing else.

Not all ports are created equal. I personally have never touched the sd card slot on my iMac or any of the thunderbolt ports. Won't it be great if there were some way of converting unused ports into more of the ports that i did use?

That's where the versatility of USB-C comes in. Why not have the MacBook Pro sport like 4-6 of them, and leave it to the individual user to decide how they want to use those ports via adaptors?

This way, there would no longer be such a thing as a wrong port. I would be able to charge my laptop from the right or left. Same with plugging it into a projector. And if I am not charging my laptop, that port can then be freed up to read, say, another USB drive or drive an extra peripheral. If I want to drive 2 displays, I don't have to worry that my laptop has only one display outlet. I simply disconnect one of my drives and convert into another monitor port.

My ports can become whatever standard I want them to be (with the right adaptor, of course). It would essentially be an evolution of the concept of the 2013 Mac Pro with its 6 thunderbolt ports. A blank slate where you plug in whatever accessory you need.

We are staring at the future of mobile computing here, and people still can't get over the loss of the headphone jack?!?

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

My ports can become whatever standard I want them to be (with the right adaptor, of course). It would essentially be an evolution of the concept of the 2013 Mac Pro with its 6 thunderbolt ports. A blank slate where you plug in whatever accessory you need.

Except that now when I am not at my regular workspace, and, I need to plug in the wired ethernet, or, HDMI in a meeting room, I now need dongles with me.

And, once again, what is it that the Pro version is buying you over the plain Macbook?

We are staring at the future of mobile computing here, and people still can't get over the loss of the headphone jack?!?

The loss of the digital audio+headphone jack.

 

[Abazigal]

Except that now when I am not at my regular workspace, and, I need to plug in the wired ethernet, or, HDMI in a meeting room, I now need dongles with me.

And, once again, what is it that the Pro version is buying you over the plain Macbook?

The loss of the digital audio+headphone jack.

More ports, better specs and a larger display?

You are already using a dongle for Ethernet anyways, since no Apple laptop supports that port (except the 2012 MBP).

Which is precisely my point. Different people need a different array of ports. If I don't need HDMI, that's a port which is useless to me and taking up unnecessary space. Outsource everything to adaptors and dongles, and let users mix and match to get that exact combination that they want.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

You are already using a dongle for Ethernet anyways, since no Apple laptop supports that port (except the 2012 MBP).

A perfect example of the kind of error Apple is making. In my environment, every MBP is plugged into a wired Ethernet every day. It solves so many problems, like, backing up hundreds of terabytes worth of storage in a reasonable time.

 

[Abazigal]

A perfect example of the kind of error Apple is making. In my environment, every MBP is plugged into a wired Ethernet every day. It solves so many problems, like, backing up hundreds of terabytes worth of storage in a reasonable time.

While I can't remember the last time I plugged in an Ethernet cable; much less wished I had the ability to do so. Even my home iMac is running off a wireless connection.

You see the issue? What might be considered an indispensable feature to you is dead weight for me, while the features I value might be worthless to you.

There is no one selection of ports which will make all users happy. So why not standardise them all? It would also help spearhead the adoption of USB-C peripherals.

Ready or not, the future is here.

 

[flat five]

A perfect example of the kind of error Apple is making. In my environment, every MBP is plugged into a wired Ethernet every day. It solves so many problems, like, backing up hundreds of terabytes worth of storage in a reasonable time.

the ethernet in mbp is slower than the connections available on newer macs.. even the wifi is faster.
just sayin

 

[Mailia]

even the wifi is faster.

In what reality?

 

[Luis Ortega]

the port-less MacBook pro... Last Question: do you need to charge your laptop?

Apple's wet dream is a disposable device that you throw away after the initial battery charge runs out.
[doublepost=1474793157][/doublepost]

Ready or not, the future is here.

Lol...At this rate, it's going to be called Windows.

 

[BenTrovato]

It seems like all the people who are fine with the loss of ports from the pro, aren't even professionals. Just people who want Apples most powerful laptops. I get that you never used the 3.5mm, sd slot or a thunderbolt connection - but lots of people do! I hate having to buy dongles for no reason except to add a revenue stream for the shareholders. Sorry folks that's not progress no matter how you try and spin it.

 

[Abazigal]

It seems like all the people who are fine with the loss of ports from the pro, aren't even professionals. Just people who want Apples most powerful laptops. I get that you never used the 3.5mm, sd slot or a thunderbolt connection - but lots of people do! I hate having to buy dongles for no reason except to add a revenue stream for the shareholders. Sorry folks that's not progress no matter how you try and spin it.

Depends on what your definition of "professional" is.

I am a teacher, and I own a MacBook Air. I use the thunderbolt port primarily for plugging in a thunderbolt dock and for mini-display to VGA. I hook in the audio cable occasionally when I need to output an audio file, but have never needed to insert a SD-card.

For all intents and purposes, a MacBook should suffice, but I find the processor a tad slow, and I wouldn't mind a thinner and light retina MBP if it doesn't prove too far off from the 13” MBA. And I mean what I say when I wish that sometimes, I could switch the positions of the charging port and thunderbolt ports.

And if Apple releases a laptop which invalidates all my adaptors, I will buy them all over again if I need to. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. This is the perfect opportunity to embrace USB-C as the one port to rule them all and make a clean break with all the older legacy ports.

I guess there is some truth to the saying - People want change, yet nobody wants to change. Isn't it ironic that the people once responsible for Apple's success might now be its greatest impediment to embracing the future?

 

[sracer]

I guess there is some truth to the saying - People want change, yet nobody wants to change. Isn't it ironic that the people once responsible for Apple's success might now be its greatest impediment to embracing the future?

That saying is so silly as to not make any sense. It assumes that the people who say they want change are the same ones who don't want to change. That is a faulty assumption. That saying also ignores the TYPE of change and the PURPOSE for the change. Change simply for the sake of change is foolish.

The primary responsibility for change agents is to give reasons for the purpose of the change. Not all changes that Apple has made over the years were good changes. For example: The first Macbook Air (early 2008) had only 1 USB port. That was a CHANGE from the variety of ports available on their other notebooks. Apple had to back off that CHANGE in late 2010 and add another USB port to the MBA.

Fast forward to today: The rMB has only 1 USB-C port. If there is sufficient push-back on that, Apple will back off that change as well. If there is sufficient push-back on the removal of the headphone jack, Apple will back off that change.

For some people, any change made by Apple is a good change simply because Apple made the change. For others, any change that Apple makes is a bad one. Neither view is helpful.

IMO, Apple has not been entirely honest with customers regarding the true reasons for the removal of the headphone jack. The have have said truthful things, but those things might not have been the primary factors in the decision.

 

[Abazigal]

IMO, Apple has not been entirely honest with customers regarding the true reasons for the removal of the headphone jack. The have have said truthful things, but those things might not have been the primary factors in the decision.

I feel enough has been said on that matter. Seriously, we have been having this debate for a year and it's still the same few points being regurgitated. Ultimately, it is up to the individuals as to whether they want to accept those reasons or not. If they are dead set against the removal of the headphone jack, no amount of reasoning will suffice.

We will simply have to let time be the ultimate judge of whether Apple is on the right side of history this time.

 

[flat five]

In what reality?

ethernet is 1 gigabit per second.
802.11ac is generally rated at 1.3gigabit per second.

these are theoretical maxes but neither are going to hit their specified speed in real world.
[doublepost=1474815562][/doublepost]

It seems like all the people who are fine with the loss of ports from the pro, aren't even professionals. Just people who want Apples most powerful laptops.

i don't think that's a fair assumption..
i'm a professional designer/CAD/3D modeler and i don't use any of the ports on my mbp other than the charging port.. everything is being done wirelessly. (and has been for nearly two years now)

idk, i'm not trying to say that since i work wirelessly that everyone should (or currently, could).. just pointing out that your initial assumption isn't accurate.
[doublepost=1474817737][/doublepost]

Fast forward to today: The rMB has only 1 USB-C port. If there is sufficient push-back on that, Apple will back off that change as well. If there is sufficient push-back on the removal of the headphone jack, Apple will back off that change.

this is true.. apple will listen to the market.
if the headphone jack removal causes significant loss of sales, they'll bring it back to the iphone.. with as much negative talk to be read around here about the removal of the jack, one would likely imagine we'll see an iphone 7b in about one month that has the headphone jack.. but i personally think all this chatter is mostly hot air and people won't be putting their money where their mouth is.. and that the phone jack is gone from iphone forever.

IMO, Apple has not been entirely honest with customers regarding the true reasons for the removal of the headphone jack. The have have said truthful things, but those things might not have been the primary factors in the decision.

it doesn't really matter what they say or not.. if somebody doesn't like the reasons given, they'll just make up the reasons why apple did it.

ultimately, i don't think it should be too hard for people to realize the port did very little.. and the things it can do are entirely redundant 2x over.
it's also not the 'standard' many people like to make it out to be.. i've encountered just as many 3.5mm plugs that don't work with iphone as the amount that do.. the plugs can be different lengths.. or different diameters (too fat).. or the connections are wired differently by different manufacturers..
such as:



why is there an apple version and a samsung version of those headphones? they're the same headphones and both wired with a miniphone plug..
but, the plug isn't standard in the sense that all the naysayers would lead one to believe so you end up with multiple versions of the same accessories to accommodate different versions of a 3.5mm jack.


---
point being, many people won't even let themselves realize 3.5mm capabilities are incredibly limited and are not standard within the industries.. people will argue me that "no, 3.5 offers lots of capabilities and yes, they are standard".. so what's it matter what apple says?
people will just say apple is dumb or greedy anyway without properly surveying the change.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

the ethernet in mbp is slower than the connections available on newer macs.. even the wifi is faster.

Wired ethernet in which model year MBP is slower than WiFi in that same year? Which year was that?

I feel enough has been said on that matter. Seriously, we have been having this debate for a year and it's still the same few points being regurgitated.

Apparently, after a year of beating, the horse is not dead yet.

ethernet is 1 gigabit per second.
802.11ac is generally rated at 1.3gigabit per second.

these are theoretical maxes but neither are going to hit their specified speed in real world.

In the real world, it is 200 desktops with 200 wired connections in a cubicle area, and, some number of access points in the same area, each AP with one (or possibly two) gigabit ethernets for backhaul. The majority of laptops go places with the people. 100 laptops get plugged in during a two-hour window in the morning. Mostly incremental, occasionally full backups. The laptops have 500 GB or 1 TB each. Do I want the wireless system to be the bottleneck, or, do I size the backup servers to meet demand and get everything done within the two hour window?

i don't think that's a fair assumption..
i'm a professional designer/CAD/3D modeler and i don't use any of the ports on my mbp other than the charging port.. everything is being done wirelessly. (and has been for nearly two years now)

idk, i'm not trying to say that since i work wirelessly that everyone should (or currently, could).. just pointing out that your initial assumption isn't accurate.

It sounds like you work standalone or semi-standalone? Lots of people work in groups and want professionally managed backups. Lots of people also don't like to walk around with a handful of dongles. Not to mention that the mDP/TB ports seem to develop play after a while -- they are not like those old D-sub connectors that could withstand 10,000 insertions or whatever it was (as long as you didn't bend a pin ). I hope USB-C can survive ten thousand insertions -- if I have to go to USB-C + portable-docking-station, I expect the port to get ~1000 insertions per year.

 

[Mailia]

ethernet is 1 gigabit per second.
802.11ac is generally rated at 1.3gigabit per second.

these are theoretical maxes but neither are going to hit their specified speed in real world.

Yeah, your argument is relying on the fact that you can actually get that 1.3 Gb/s anywhere, when the Wi-Fi signal is affected by the number of networks in the vicinity, the range from the base station to the machine, the amount of walls around you and whether or not someone is operating a microwave oven in the apartment.

I did a few test runs with ~350 MB video file transfers from my desktop to my laptop via the wired network. Best result I got was 109.35MB/s (874.8 Mbits), which is obviously 87.4% of the maximum transfer speed. And obviously the network might not be the only bottleneck in this equation. Increasing the filesize to 5.2 GB, the average speed drops down to an agonizingly slow 58.69MB/s (469.52 Mbits), with the transfer peaking at around 110MB/s (880 Mbits) before starting the drop.

Now, I don't know which Mac you are referring to when you claimed that the Wi-Fi speeds in new Macs are superior to the Ethernet connection, but looking at AnandTech's review of the 2015 MacBook, they state that "the MacBook ships with a Broadcom 2x2:2 802.11ac solution, which means that in theory it is capable of delivering up to 833Mbps". So the speed that I just got out of my test exceeded the theoretical maximum for the computer and crushed the tested speed of 333.7 Mbits.

As far for the MacBook Pro, it's hard to find any tests where they run the 802.11ac through its paces. However, I have a hard time believing it will reach 800+ Mbits speeds connected wirelessly even in test environments, let alone the real world. Feel free to link me some if you have any though.

 

[BenTrovato]

Depends on what your definition of "professional" is.

I am a teacher, and I own a MacBook Air. I use the thunderbolt port primarily for plugging in a thunderbolt dock and for mini-display to VGA. I hook in the audio cable occasionally when I need to output an audio file, but have never needed to insert a SD-card.

For all intents and purposes, a MacBook should suffice, but I find the processor a tad slow, and I wouldn't mind a thinner and light retina MBP if it doesn't prove too far off from the 13” MBA. And I mean what I say when I wish that sometimes, I could switch the positions of the charging port and thunderbolt ports.

And if Apple releases a laptop which invalidates all my adaptors, I will buy them all over again if I need to. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. This is the perfect opportunity to embrace USB-C as the one port to rule them all and make a clean break with all the older legacy ports.

I guess there is some truth to the saying - People want change, yet nobody wants to change. Isn't it ironic that the people once responsible for Apple's success might now be its greatest impediment to embracing the future?

I don't think it's fair to tout change and embracing the future as being stuck in the past. It's no different than the iPhone headphone jack. Get rid of it!! But before you do, make wireless better. Same with the laptops. Get rid of the ports - just make the alternative better. Right now it's not better.

 

[Abazigal]

I don't think it's fair to tout change and embracing the future as being stuck in the past. It's no different than the iPhone headphone jack. Get rid of it!! But before you do, make wireless better. Same with the laptops. Get rid of the ports - just make the alternative better. Right now it's not better.

The alternative is better. You have a reversible port which can be plugged in anywhere. The only downside is that tons of people are still using older ports and might not be so willing to switch in the short term (as is typically the case with any new standard).

USB-C is being touted as the one port to rule them all. If it can replace every port, then why shouldn't it? Don't bother with half-arsed measures like simply including 1 or 2 USB-C ports alongside the other older ports. Scrap all the other ports and make USB-C the only option.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Personally, if you ask me, it makes perfect sense for the next MacBook Pro to sport only USB-C ports and nothing else.

It doesn't make perfect sense to me. There's two problems (not counting the headphone/line-out jack discussed earlier). One is that thus far Apple has only included ONE USB-C port. That presents a host of problems centered around the fact you'd need to carry a HUB with you to do ANYTHING. You can't even charge the Macbook and plug in a mouse or hard drive or USB Stick without dongles AND adapters galore which brings me to point three. Most devices out there are not USB-C and so you will need dongles to convert them to even use them.

For a Macbook Pro, I would have 3-4 USB-C ports, at least two of which are also Thunderbolt III ports plus at least one if not two traditional USB ports for the transition period to USB-C (so you don't have to carry freaking dongles just to plug in a mouse or hard drive) AND an HDMI port and a headphone/line-out jack. If there's still room, the SD Card reader is handy for many as well (personally I'd prefer an Express Card expansion port and you could get any card you'd need without having external crap which defeats the point of being portable. That is perfectly doable given the space available on a Macbook Pro, which doesn't need to be the thinnest thing around (leave that for the Air or regular Macbook). In my opinion, a "Pro" machine should have plenty of connections without the need for dongles or hubs.

Not all ports are created equal. I personally have never touched the sd card slot on my iMac or any of the thunderbolt ports. Won't it be great if there were some way of converting unused ports into more of the ports that i did use?

My 2008 Macbook Pro has an Express Card expansion port. I can plug in USB3 card (I then have 4 USB ports total without an external hub) or an eSata card or a memory card reader among other things. Apple, in their "infinite wisdom" decided that "Pros" would somehow prefer a dedicated SD card reader instead of an expansion slot and that "Thunderbolt" (which requires external gear that is less "portable") is more than sufficient instead. Sadly, Apple is so obsessed with "thin" that their thin model (the Macbook Air) is now redundant since the Macbook Pro is now so thin and light that the "Air" model is pretty much moot (let alone considering the regular "Macbook" with its one whole port for everything that makes a fracking mess of it since it's also the power port).

That's where the versatility of USB-C comes in. Why not have the MacBook Pro sport like 4-6 of them, and leave it to the individual user to decide how they want to use those ports via adaptors?

USB-C PLUS Thunderbolt III (which uses USB-C ports) makes it easy to connect a hub that can pretty much add any array or ports or even a graphics card with one cable. But that doesn't mean it's a great idea to ONLY have USB-C ports right now when most devices don't use USB-C. Dongles get lost. They're you're screwed. It'd be far better to have a couple of full sized USB ports in the interim. Two of each type would probably do it as I said above, but I'd include an HDMI port for now because it's the easiest/fastest way to connect a Macbook Pro to a TV type display. The Thunderbolt/USB-C ports will connect to pretty much anything else (mini-display port, DVI, whatever) with an adapter.

This way, there would no longer be such a thing as a wrong port.

Your way means EVERYTHING is a "wrong port" since hardly anything out there is USB-C!!! If you need an adapter/dongle, its a PITA. I'm all for moving to USB-C (particularly with Thunderbolt III in the mix since it means a Macbook Pro can be a desktop gaming machine with one cable to a hub with a graphics card in it), but things are not going to transition overnight and dongles/adapters are hated by most people. There is simply no need on a larger sized notebook or desktop to only have one type of port at this time. As everything transitions THEN you can remove the full sized ports.

USB-C is being touted as the one port to rule them all. If it can replace every port, then why shouldn't it? Don't bother with half-arsed measures like simply including 1 or 2 USB-C ports alongside the other older ports. Scrap all the other ports and make USB-C the only option.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

What fracking part of "NOTHING uses USB-C right now" don't you get????

Ask the people that bought that goofy Macbook with one USB-C port how much they're enjoying having splitters, adapters and hubs on their "ultra-portable". It's fracking MESS. No thanks. Wait until things transition before removing the most common computer port on Earth.

the ethernet in mbp is slower than the connections available on newer macs.. even the wifi is faster.
just sayin

In what UNIVERSE is 802.11 AC "faster" in actual use than Gigabit? NONE. Apple should start including 10 or even 100 Gigabit and it'd be case closed.

 

[villicodelirant]

I
In what UNIVERSE is 802.11 AC "faster" in actual use than Gigabit? NONE.

^ This

 

[LordVic]

Personally, if you ask me, it makes perfect sense for the next MacBook Pro to sport only USB-C ports and nothing else.

Not all ports are created equal. I personally have never touched the sd card slot on my iMac or any of the thunderbolt ports. Won't it be great if there were some way of converting unused ports into more of the ports that i did use?

That's where the versatility of USB-C comes in. Why not have the MacBook Pro sport like 4-6 of them, and leave it to the individual user to decide how they want to use those ports via adaptors?

This way, there would no longer be such a thing as a wrong port. I would be able to charge my laptop from the right or left. Same with plugging it into a projector. And if I am not charging my laptop, that port can then be freed up to read, say, another USB drive or drive an extra peripheral. If I want to drive 2 displays, I don't have to worry that my laptop has only one display outlet. I simply disconnect one of my drives and convert into another monitor port.

My ports can become whatever standard I want them to be (with the right adaptor, of course). It would essentially be an evolution of the concept of the 2013 Mac Pro with its 6 thunderbolt ports. A blank slate where you plug in whatever accessory you need.

We are staring at the future of mobile computing here, and people still can't get over the loss of the headphone jack?!?

I can't tell if you're purposely being ironic, or you really havent a clue how ridiculous you sound.

 

[libmanj]

I wish they would survey me. I own a Macbook Pro, and I use the headphone jack just about every day. But I use it twice as often on the iPhone.

 

[Abazigal]

I can't tell if you're purposely being ironic, or you really havent a clue how ridiculous you sound.

I am 100% serious.

 

[flat five]

Wired ethernet in which model year MBP is slower than WiFi in that same year? Which year was that?

i don't know what year.. it's your question, not mine.

i said:
"the ethernet in mbp is slower than the connections available on newer macs.. even the wifi is faster.
just sayin"

so ethernet mbp are pre2014(?).. the newer ones are the ones people buy now.. not sure where you're getting that i said (or even implied) something about exact same model of computer.



and i said that in response to you saying:
"A perfect example of the kind of error Apple is making. In my environment, every MBP is plugged into a wired Ethernet every day. It solves so many problems, like, backing up hundreds of terabytes worth of storage in a reasonable time."


this says to me that apple made a mistake when removing ethernet.. and the reason it's a mistake is because ethernet solves the problem of transferring data in a reasonable amount of time.. is that right?

so i said that, if your concern is transfer speed then the newer macs have faster connections than the ethernet.. like thunderbolt.. that's a lot faster than the 'old' fast.. ethernet being the old fast.. if your concern is data transfer speed then you're much better off using thunderbolt than ethernet..

In the real world, it is 200 desktops with 200 wired connections in a cubicle area, and, some number of access points in the same area, each AP with one (or possibly two) gigabit ethernets for backhaul. The majority of laptops go places with the people. 100 laptops get plugged in during a two-hour window in the morning. Mostly incremental, occasionally full backups. The laptops have 500 GB or 1 TB each. Do I want the wireless system to be the bottleneck, or, do I size the backup servers to meet demand and get everything done within the two hour window?

cool story i suppose.

you're just making crap up.. nowhere did i say wifi is good solution for working on a 200 desktop network.. not even close.. so i'm not going to even entertain you with an answer to these questions.

It sounds like you work standalone or semi-standalone? Lots of people work in groups and want professionally managed backups. Lots of people also don't like to walk around with a handful of dongles. Not to mention that the mDP/TB ports seem to develop play after a while -- they are not like those old D-sub connectors that could withstand 10,000 insertions or whatever it was (as long as you didn't bend a pin ). I hope USB-C can survive ten thousand insertions -- if I have to go to USB-C + portable-docking-station, I expect the port to get ~1000 insertions per year.

again, read what i said.. don't try to put your little twiztyWrds game on it.. take it at face value:

" i'm not trying to say that since i work wirelessly that everyone should (or currently, could).. just pointing out that your initial assumption isn't accurate"

like, your 'argument' at me is attempting to say something to me that i've fully acknowledged already.. what gives?
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Yeah, your argument is relying on the fact that you can actually get that 1.3 Gb/s anywhere, when the Wi-Fi signal is affected by the number of networks in the vicinity, the range from the base station to the machine, the amount of walls around you and whether or not someone is operating a microwave oven in the apartment.

my 'argument' (and for real.. wasn't even argumentive to begin with.. just a statement)..
my argument was that if dude is relying on the ethernet in older mbps then there are much faster solutions available on the newer models..
that's the point. that's it.

109.35MB/s (874.8 Mbits)

yeah, 802.11ac wifi won't go that fast in my real world.. maybe some test lab could get it i suppose.
i'd say somewhere around 30-40MB/s

[edit] i don't have any benchmark software but for fun, just pulled a 835MB file from an imac to mbp (802.11ac router and same for both computers.. no platters either).. it took 25 seconds so ~33MB/s

..going the other way, it took 21 seconds.
[/edit]
[doublepost=1474850368][/doublepost]

I can't tell if you're purposely being ironic, or you really havent a clue how ridiculous you sound.

as ridiculous as that may sound to you, it's already here and it's already happening.



and really, i don't understand why having one port that does everything is a bad idea.. why wouldn't you like that? why is it ridiculous?

 

[thewap]

Blue tooth dependency instead of an audio jack guarantees scheduled obsolescence of your not so dated wireless ear dongles, every time Apple upgrades the bluetooth version in future macs...

 

[flat five]

Blue tooth dependency instead of an audio jack guarantees scheduled obsolescence of your not so dated wireless ear dongles, every time Apple upgrades the bluetooth version in future macs...

huh?
bluetooth is backwards compatible.