Apple Sweeps Consumer Reports' Laptop Recommendations

[xhambonex]

I am now convinced we have a hoard of PC shills filling the boards with nonsense. I am all for listening to "other" viewpoints, but not when they are so clearly maunfactured. \

So did you just exclude yourself because you are an Apple fan and user? Because what you just posted was on the same level as those PC shills you so politely pointed out.

Did you miss the part where Eric owns a mini? I think he's made valid points this whole time, there are things that aren't perfect about Apple.

 

[aristobrat]

Apple should try running a marketing campaign that promotes PC users to switch...give us (anyone actually) a full 30-day (compared to their WEAK 14 day), no questions asked return policy...no 15% restocking fee (a slap in the face policy that's been around for a long time)

Per your view that Apple stores are too far to drive, might I suggest buying an Apple from another retailer that offers a 30-day return window, like Best Buy? Although I'm not aware of any big-box retailer that doesn't have a restock fee on returned computers (that have been opened). Do you?

...and also include on the machine some media files that show common tasks in Windows that are now on the Mac (their in-store tutorials are nice but too far to drive and limited availability).

Pretty much all of the info available from an Apple Retail Store is available online.

These the tutorials you're talking about?
http://www.apple.com/findouthow/mac/

Have you seen the step-by-step iLife video tutorials?
http://www.apple.com/ilife/tutorials/#iphoto

iWork tutorials?
http://www.apple.com/iwork/tutorials/#pages

 

[ericinboston]

This is SO funny, on so many points, I don't know where to start. 14 days is weak, and 30 days is "full"?? If you think people choose macs over pcs because their designs are "cool" you are off the mark. By the way that HP desktop design looks strangely familiar, lol. No matter how gee-whiz and slick any computer "looks", that dazzlement will quickly fade when the realization of functionality begins to creep in. Making a pc "look" cool (even if you are cribbing the aesthetics) is kind of like sticking plastic cladding all over cars... and we know how THAT turned out, lol. Frankly you "pc-folks" should love us apple-folks... if it wasn't for us you would still be working on a beige box with a 13" crt....

1)14 days for a refund on a computer (especially that is 100% designed by a single vendor) is weak. Why is it that every other electronic device I buy comes with a 30 day warranty? How is it that 2 weeks is enough time for me to open it up, play, decide if I like, and return it by day 14? I do other things such as work 60 hours a week. 30 days gives me, well, TWICE the time to evaluate my product.

2)When did I say people choose Apples (I'm presuming you mean Macs...not iPods or iPhones) because they are cool? I don't recall stating that. However, I would say that "design" is probably a big factor and that probably equates to "cool" in a lot of definitions. And yes, I think Macs (especially the laptops) are "cool" because of the sleek design as well as some of the iLife stuff. Does that make my decision wrong?



Yet again with all the "we Apple people are the smartest and best people on the planet" type comments and your pointless car references.

Why and how is it that people twist words and ideas on this board so easily?

I'm a pc fan but I also own a Mac. So what. Now are you gonna pat my back and tell me you're sorry? I own 3 iPods, too...does that make me a better person? What if I told you I was programming on the Apple //e before you were even born?

Sheeeeez. Take it down a notch.

 

[ericinboston]

So did you just exclude yourself because you are an Apple fan and user? Because what you just posted was on the same level as those PC shills you so politely pointed out.

Did you miss the part where Eric owns a mini? I think he's made valid points this whole time, there are things that aren't perfect about Apple.

Ya know, I think I'm going to have to create a signature that states I'm an old school Apple lover who just happens to primarily use PCs. Some folks around here just twist every syllable.

 

[xhambonex]

Ya know, I think I'm going to have to create a signature that states I'm an old school Apple lover who just happens to primarily use PCs. Some folks around here just twist every syllable.

Maybe that will help.

I love my MBP, but my time is split 50/50 XP, OS X because Autodesk is slow at adopting some programs to OS X. I'm glad Rhino has a beta up and running, Alias I thought was this year or next. Solidworks would be the last step to complete the puzzle.

But really I have had zero problems with XP period. But I am just faster on a Mac, that's what we had in school, that's what I bought for school, though required to have something that ran XP.

Design wise, well someone in my studio bought a MBP just for the looks and partitioned the HDD to be a primary XP machine. Sounds silly, but people like the looks and he likes the control he has over his OS.

 

[ericinboston]

Per your view that Apple stores are too far to drive, might I suggest buying an Apple from another retailer that offers a 30-day return window, like Best Buy? Although I'm not aware of any big-box retailer that doesn't have a restock fee on returned computers (that have been opened). Do you?

I'll have to look at those links...thanks!

Um, what I meant about restocking fee was Apple Stores...they make the products, shelve them, sell them, etc. The price NEVER changes over the entire year yet if I bring it back at any point in time, I am charged a 15% restocking fee. Now, from personal experience I demanded it to be waived when I brought back a defective Mini (gasp! can I say this here? will someone call me a liar?) in 2005. But overall that policy is pure garbage. If Apple lowered it's price every month or 2, then a restocking fee may be tougher to swallow. But they don't.

Stores that do not manufacture their own products are welcome to charge a restocking fee...and hence that's why I DO NOT SHOP AT RESTOCKING FEE stores...such as Best Buy or Circuit City. I shop at places like Amazon or Crutchfield. I believe as a consumer that I put up with enough garbage in the electonrics industry and now "restocking fees" that suddenly materialized in 1998 are outlandish. Restocking fees are a store's policy...not the law...I would suggest that everyone shop carefully before buying electronics (amazing that the fees are only for electronics...never for clothes or books or dvds or jewelry...and I hate it when stores try to explain how much an electronic device loses it's value in an amazing 14 days).

 

[ericinboston]

Maybe that will help.

Design wise, well someone in my studio bought a MBP just for the looks and partitioned the HDD to be a primary XP machine. Sounds silly, but people like the looks and he likes the control he has over his OS.

I would have just used VMWare...been using this suite of products since 1.0...they are fantastic. I have yet to get a chance to use it on Mac and run a VM of XP but my co-workers have done so and they love it.

 

[xhambonex]

I would have just used VMWare...been using this suite of products since 1.0...they are fantastic. I have yet to get a chance to use it on Mac and run a VM of XP but my co-workers have done so and they love it.

Yeah but it cost money. I'd probably be ok just using it to run solidworks once Alias migrates to OS X. I can get rendering programs on my OS X no problem. But my next step is doubling my RAM, then once AppleCare is no more hello new 7200rpm HDD.

Maybe in the future I'll look into getting it set up and working, but boot camp has more than served its purpose.

 

[aristobrat]

Um, what I meant about restocking fee was Apple Stores...they make the products, shelve them, sell them, etc. The price NEVER changes over the entire year yet if I bring it back at any point in time, I am charged a 15% restocking fee.

Again, if you don't agree to the restock fees that Apple Retail charges, buy your Mac from a retailer that doesn't charge a restock fee.

Having said that, I'm unaware of any retailer (even Amazon.com) that guarantees to *not* charge a restock fee when an opened computer is returned for buyers remorse.

and I hate it when stores try to explain how much an electronic device loses it's value in an amazing 14 days).

What?

When you return a device that you've opened, the reseller can not sell it again for the same price you paid.

So in essence, that particular piece of electronics has lost value.

 

[ericinboston]

Yeah but it cost money. And from what I hear, I don't get all the power I would need for some of things I run into modeling and rendering and such, but maybe the program has improved over the last couple years. My next step is doubling my RAM, then once AppleCare is no more hello new 7200rpm HDD.

Maybe in the future I'll look into getting it set up and working, but boot camp has more than served its purpose.

I don't know enough about your apps on the Mac platform that you are talking about. But in my experience, VMWare has gone leaps and bounds even over the past 2 years. I use it on some work machines...as long as the host operating system (my case would be Windows Server 2003 or 2008) can "see" lots of ram (XP can only see 3gigs) then you can allocate more to VMWare.

For example, I boot to Win2008 with 8gig of RAM. Win2008 really only needs 1gig or less, so now I have 7 left for anything running on the host. I set my VMWare to use 5gigs and poof! my VM (which itself is usually Win2003) runs lickedy split because it sees 5gigs of RAM.

Try the newer VMWare...I'm on 6.5.x on Windows. What's also pretty sweet is that VMWare can open up Ghost and Accronis backup images.

Oh, and RAM is cheap...very cheap!

 

[ericinboston]

Again, if you don't agree to the restock fees that Apple Retail charges, buy your Mac from a retailer that doesn't charge a restock fee.

Having said that, I'm unaware of any retailer (even Amazon.com) that guarantees to *not* charge a restock fee when an opened computer is returned for buyers remorse.



What?

When you return a device that you've opened, the reseller can not sell it again for the same price you paid.

So in essence, that particular piece of electronics has lost value.

I think we're miscommunicating. I agree with you on all points and I'm not mad.

All I'm saying is that until 1998, I could buy any electronic gizmo from any store and have a 30-day-to-play guarantee. Think about how many flavors of a camcorder or dvd player a store sells...and how many are on display?...and that are working? A very low percent...so they used to allow you to take it home, try it out, etc. And if it were a gift and you opened it and found out that the User Manual, for example, stated that the DVD player didn't have an s-video output, you packed it up and brought it back.

Nowadays consumers have let the Retail industry change the game and put all the blame on the consumer. Granted over the past few years websites have made it easier to shop and see "what's in the box" but I'm talking about that this Restocking Fee policy was created long before online electronics stores offered a great shopping/researching experience.

It's not always buyer's remorse...sometimes it's plain busted...and yet the store wants to force to you to take an identical replacement rather than you just saying "you know what, this Sony ____ stinks so why would I try it again?" or "your sales rep told me this Sony ____ came with an illuminated remote control and it doesn't; therefore I want my money back and I will shop at a store that hires honest employees."

-Eric

 

[50548]

I also consider myself extremely knowledgeable in the "computer world" meaning all things computers...programming, building/modifying hardware, etc. If you want to start a separate thread and post clear, thoughtful, and intelligent ideas and POLITELY debate the world of PC vs. the world of Mac, let's discuss. However, repeated generalized comments like your post above will quickly discredit anything you have to say.
-Eric

Eric in Boston, you should hang around here more often; then you'd be able to recognize my trademark signature in pretty much everything I post...I have switched more than 10 people to Macs, and they ALL say they will never look back again to the inferior world of the Windows PC.

As for the rest of my diatribes, they just represent the usual statements that are more than deserved when it comes to a platform that adds neither pleasure nor taste to our daily computing experiences. And I'll always be more than ready to counter any unfounded opinions on why on Earth PCs could be better than Macs...unless you like playing millions of different FPS games, of course.

Again, MS IS DEAD. Just wait for its burial in due course.

 

[DMann]

Eric in Boston, you should hang around here more often; then you'd be able to recognize my trademark signature in pretty much everything I post...I have switched more than 10 people to Macs, and they ALL say they will never look back again to the inferior world of the Windows PC.

As for the rest of my diatribes, they just represent the usual statements that are more than deserved when it comes to a platform that adds neither pleasure nor taste to our daily computing experiences. And I'll always be more than ready to counter any unfounded opinions on why on Earth PCs could be better than Macs...unless you like playing millions of different FPS games, of course.

Again, MS IS DEAD. Just wait for its burial in due course.

With SBallmer at the helm, they are headed well below sea level.

 

[polaris20]

I'll have to look at those links...thanks!

Um, what I meant about restocking fee was Apple Stores...they make the products, shelve them, sell them, etc. The price NEVER changes over the entire year yet if I bring it back at any point in time, I am charged a 15% restocking fee. Now, from personal experience I demanded it to be waived when I brought back a defective Mini (gasp! can I say this here? will someone call me a liar?) in 2005. But overall that policy is pure garbage. If Apple lowered it's price every month or 2, then a restocking fee may be tougher to swallow. But they don't.

Stores that do not manufacture their own products are welcome to charge a restocking fee...and hence that's why I DO NOT SHOP AT RESTOCKING FEE stores...such as Best Buy or Circuit City. I shop at places like Amazon or Crutchfield. I believe as a consumer that I put up with enough garbage in the electonrics industry and now "restocking fees" that suddenly materialized in 1998 are outlandish. Restocking fees are a store's policy...not the law...I would suggest that everyone shop carefully before buying electronics (amazing that the fees are only for electronics...never for clothes or books or dvds or jewelry...and I hate it when stores try to explain how much an electronic device loses it's value in an amazing 14 days).

Just to play devil's advocate, I don't think Apple can legally sell a returned, re-packed computer as new; therefore that might be why they charge 15%, because they're unwilling to "eat" the loss in money when they turn around and sell it as refurbished.

But given the cost of the Apple machines in the first place, that may or may not be a slap in the face anyway.

 

[-hh]

I am now convinced we have a hoard of PC shills filling the boards with nonsense. I am all for listening to "other" viewpoints, but not when they are so clearly maunfactured. A hearty THANKS to -hh... his post was well-reasoned, and a joy to read. Plus I have heard the phrase "astroturfing" before, but never bothered to look it up. Sounds like that is indeed what is going on.

Sorry if our snarky tones have taken a nasty edge (to you anti-posters), but I just can't believe these are "real".

Being an eternal optimist, I sincerely hope that this isn't a bunch of Astroturfers, but merely some enthusiastic young adults who simply haven't had the years (decades) of experience with how business ... including IT ... tends to work, and where there's been many many instances of dirty dealings that were ultimately for the corporation to profit at the expense of the consumer.

Not to pick on anyone, but for an example, I did subsequently notice that BMW Fan mentioned a job interview. It is that time of year for College Seniors, afterall, and landing a job often results in thinking about what new toys could be forthcoming after a few paychecks, etc.

Also as an aside, with the large recent upswing in 'new people' to the Mac platform, we also should try to be aware that this could be a modern repeat of the "Eternal September" phenominon ... and more to the point, this should be heeded by both the Greybeards as well as the Newcomers.

1)14 days for a refund on a computer (especially that is 100% designed by a single vendor) is weak. Why is it that every other electronic device I buy comes with a 30 day warranty?

FWIW, I think that this is a point worthy of discussion and debate, particularly if Apple's objective is to grow their market share.

What if I told you I was programming on the Apple //e before you were even born?

Personally, I'd have mixed feelings. On the one hand, it would nice to be significantly younger ... but then again, it wouldn't be particularly nice to aslo be as many years further away from retirement. Of course, my old Apple was a ][+, not one of those newfangled ones that had came from the factory with both Lowercase and Uppercase letters.


-hh

 

[ericinboston]

Eric in Boston, you should hang around here more often; then you'd be able to recognize my trademark signature in pretty much everything I post...I have switched more than 10 people to Macs, and they ALL say they will never look back again to the inferior world of the Windows PC.

As for the rest of my diatribes, they just represent the usual statements that are more than deserved when it comes to a platform that adds neither pleasure nor taste to our daily computing experiences. And I'll always be more than ready to counter any unfounded opinions on why on Earth PCs could be better than Macs...unless you like playing millions of different FPS games, of course.

Again, MS IS DEAD. Just wait for its burial in due course.

I'm not sure I'm following you yet I believe you and I may agree on some points.

1)Let's be clear on the PC industry vs. Microsoft. There is a huge difference and would take thousands of man hours to write such a novel. If you have a beef with either, please elaborate.

2)I don't think MS is dead. Since the early 90s they have really grown from an OS-only company to offering products/services in applications, databases, backend systems, and high availability. Granted Sun/Linux/Unix is sometimes preferred by companies, the fact remains that MS is used by millions of companies throughout the world for IT infrastructure as well as end user operating systems and end user applications. If you wish to clarify your "MS is dead" statement, go for it.

3)I think MS has been running out of ideas on OS improvements for years now. Not because MS is out of ideas, but we all remember the Monopoly cases that MS has faced, mainly the IE browser integration. So here sits MS in 2002-ish timeframe when they were beaten by numerous government lawsuits about how much it can integrate IE (and maybe other stuff) into the OS. This comes back to my definition of an OS. Now let's look at Apple who has all-governing power of it's Mac family (and I'm not complaining about it) yet Apple has not been sued about their iLife free giveaway, or Safari, or whatever other applications they give away or bundle tightly. Maybe someday Apple will be sued. Who knows.

I think MS has had a tough time trying to figure out what to do...on one hand they can't integrate too much into the OS or they will get sued and again lose billions. On the other hand if they go back to the OS days of DOS or WFWG 3.11 where only core services were included, they lose sales of their other products. So it's a catch-22 for MS. Let me look at Vista for a moment...throw out all your notions about it's over-secure-mom mentality...I look at Vista...LOOK....and I see just a few enhancements of the menus and pretty screens. Big deal. That's why I did not upgrade. Months after the release did it become known that Vista had hardware compatibility probs and stuff...so I'm glad that I stood by my XP...if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

As I mentioned somewhere earlier, I think all the OSes that have been released over the past 10 years or so offer the same 90% stuff. There's only so much in the Operating System market segment that can have room for improvement. Unless the next Apple OS has built in telepathy, I don't know what the next big thing is for an OS.

So please let us know what you mean by "MS is dead"

Now your other comment about switching users....and? So what? I've switched people from 1 product to another all the time. Let me give you my reason why I haven't switch a Mac user to a PC user...you ready? here we go: I know about 2 Mac users out of literally hundreds of computer users (and I'm sure we all know hundreds of computer users because everyone these days uses a computer). Yup. And they love their Macs just like I love my PCs. Just because you switched 10 people doesn't mean they were special people. How do we know they weren't 10 grandmas that in 2008 were using Windows95 and you switched them to the latest Mac? I'm playing devils' advocate here...they could have been people who plunked down $1500 for an overpriced Gateway back in 2003 and you turned them on to an iMac for relatively the same price. Again, everyone can claim they switched someone from 1 product to another.

By using words like "inferior" in your posts, you are still not being descriptive enough.

I am a Windows guy because that's what I've been using since 1993...it's also the operating system family that 8 out of my 8 employers have used since 1994...6 public hi-tech companies, 1 school system, and 1 non-profit healthcare company. I have my Mini and I use it for what ***I*** need...video editing. It cost me an arm and leg to buy it (in my opinion since it was $1300) but I couldn't find a cheaper-priced software solution on the pc platform (you're not going to blame MS or Dell for this are you?). And although it cost a lot, it does a great job. My wife also loves it for iPhoto organization (which to me means absolutely nothing). And using Firefox on the Mini is the same as on my XP...ditto for MS Office, Adobe Acrobat, and other cross-platform apps.

So not sure we stand on this broad topic...I'm always up for a good discussion but please try to be as thorough as possible.

 

[ericinboston]

Personally, I'd have mixed feelings. On the one hand, it would nice to be significantly younger ... but then again, it wouldn't be particularly nice to aslo be as many years further away from retirement. Of course, my old Apple was a ][+, not one of those newfangled ones that had came from the factory with both Lowercase and Uppercase letters.


-hh

And the days when bandwidth was measured in baud. Not Kilobaud. Baud.

I had a Zoom modem @ 300 baud for a long time.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Well the second guy I posted moved his mom back to windows, and is moving back to windows the next purchase he makes because his apple products were more defective than the pc products.

edit: another example of a mac user going back to windows after his apple experience.

http://www.appledefects.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=392

Sounds like the guy wasn't so much a dissatisfied customer as he was a vindictive little s**t. He didn't even have problems with his iPod, and his mother apparently didn't have any problems with her Mac, yet he gets rid of those too and makes sure to post a snarky message informing everyone how he just ordered a Zune. Now if that wasn't a classic four-year-old temper tantrum, I don't know what is.

It's one thing to be angry when you've been mistreated and scoffed at by those in the customer service business, it's another thing entirely to go on some zealous anti-Apple boycott and eliminate everything with the Apple logo on it because of how two or three people working for said company allegedly treated you. Sure, I'm happy that your Dell Latitude is having no problems, but chucking your mom's Mac too? Get a life.

 

[hiimamac]

Making the PC look cool. Tell me about it.

Remember when the iMac first came out? Beige bid makers simply out lime green or blue platic over the case. Hedious. Why is that. I don't want to sound racial but really, don't the chinese have a little more imagination???

Also, since iLife is so great fir what it is, you have to wonder why someone like Sony (Vegas, Acid, engineers from sonic foundry/Sony created Garage Band), don't come out with something like iLife. It would sell well.

Sometimes I am struck at how bad some, not all, PC software is, ummm, Songsmith, really? Are you kidding me? And then there are simple things. In a mac, PDF, zip, png files default, on a pc, you need to install so much software just to do routine things and again, why no iLife similar package fir PC, surely it can't be that hard to code.

This is SO funny, on so many points, I don't know where to start. 14 days is weak, and 30 days is "full"?? If you think people choose macs over pcs because their designs are "cool" you are off the mark. By the way that HP desktop design looks strangely familiar, lol. No matter how gee-whiz and slick any computer "looks", that dazzlement will quickly fade when the realization of functionality begins to creep in. Making a pc "look" cool (even if you are cribbing the aesthetics) is kind of like sticking plastic cladding all over cars... and we know how THAT turned out, lol. Frankly you "pc-folks" should love us apple-folks... if it wasn't for us you would still be working on a beige box with a 13" crt.

I am now convinced we have a hoard of PC shills filling the boards with nonsense. I am all for listening to "other" viewpoints, but not when they are so clearly maunfactured. A hearty THANKS to -hh... his post was well-reasoned, and a joy to read. Plus I have heard the phrase "astroturfing" before, but never bothered to look it up. Sounds like that is indeed what is going on.

Sorry if our snarky tones have taken a nasty edge (to you anti-posters), but I just can't believe these are "real".

 

[polaris20]

Also, since iLife is so great fir what it is, you have to wonder why someone like Sony (Vegas, Acid, engineers from sonic foundry/Sony created Garage Band), don't come out with something like iLife. It would sell well.

Not counting iWeb, Sony+Google Picasa is iLife for Windows. It's just more expensive, not quite as elegant (IMO), and isn't sold together.

I lived with it for quite awhile, actually. I used Sony Vegas Studio ($80 version) which is/was quite nice, and also used Acid Pro. Acid was horribly unstable though compared to GarageBand, which, for me two versions in is completely stable even with a ton of tracks and effects.

Picasa is a very good competitor for iPhoto.

 

[ericinboston]

Sometimes I am struck at how bad some, not all, PC software is, ummm, Songsmith, really? Are you kidding me? And then there are simple things. In a mac, PDF, zip, png files default, on a pc, you need to install so much software just to do routine things and again, why no iLife similar package fir PC, surely it can't be that hard to code.

1)If MS created an iLife suite, they would get their pants sued so fast because it would "infringe" on other software vendor's ability to have a competitive marketplace...see my post a few lines up about the MS Monopoly catch-22.

2)PNG are not normal files if you ask me...at least compared to JPG or GIF or AVI or BAT or the tons of others. Moreover, Windows DOES include ZIP decompression...been in there for a long time. Windows, however, does not give you the ability to compress. That's licensing between MS and Winzip...can't blame anyone in particular there. PDF support is supplied by Adobe...and I believe Macs do not come with PDF support out of the box, but maybe I am wrong.

#2 is really a moot topic...it's all about the fine line of what the operating system vendor (MS or Apple) wishes to ship with what integration...which boils down to development time, licensing fees, supportability/responsibility, etc. I have never heard of anyone in the Windows world who couldn't open a PDF or ZIP or JPG out of the box...unless they are completely clueless and probably shouldn't even be playing with those filetypes let alone a toaster.

-Eric

 

[ericinboston]

Not counting iWeb, Sony+Google Picasa is iLife for Windows. It's just more expensive, not quite as elegant (IMO), and isn't sold together.

I lived with it for quite awhile, actually. I used Sony Vegas Studio ($80 version) which is/was quite nice, and also used Acid Pro. Acid was horribly unstable though compared to GarageBand, which, for me two versions in is completely stable even with a ton of tracks and effects. QUOTE]

I know we are deviating from the thread but...what was wrong with Acid Pro? I've used versions 2-6 on XP Home (on 2 different Dells with 1-3gig ram, SATA drives, and a single core and quad core system) and love it. Unstable as in poor effects performance (like the soundcard couldn't "keep up" with the demand)?

You need to realize that software for the PC has to run on billions of more combinations than software on a Mac...so the authors of Garageband only have to worry about a handful of hardware specs while Sony (used to be Sonic Foundry) has to attempt to be compatible with 100 different sound cards, CPUs, graphics cards, etc.

I'm not trying to state it was you and not Acid...I've tried Garageband and hate it compared to what Acid Pro (or even the $69 Consumer version) can do.

 

[DMann]

1)PDF support is supplied by Adobe...and I believe Macs do not come with PDF support out of the box, but maybe I am wrong.

Preview, which has it's roots in NeXT's OPENSTEP OS, is the app included for displaying PDFs, as well as AI, BMP, DNG, EPS, FPX, GIF, HDR, ICNS, ICO, JPEG, OpenEXR, PS, PSD, PICT, PNG, PNTG, QTIF, RAD, RAW, SGI, TGA TIF, TIFF, XBM, and including FAX files.

 

[dejo]

2)...and I believe Macs do not come with PDF support out of the box, but maybe I am wrong.

Edit: DMann beat me to the punch. Also, you can easily print to PDF from within the standard print dialog.

 

[Eidorian]

You can create compressed files/folders (.zip) in Windows in addition to decompressing them.

OS X includes PDF reading and creation support out of the box. I do remember Microsoft wanting to include it Office 2007 but dropped it because of Adobe.

Preview, which has it's roots in NeXT's OPENSTEP OS, is the app included for displaying PDFs, as well as AI, BMP, DNG, EPS, FPX, GIF, HDR, ICNS, ICO, JPEG, OpenEXR, PS, PSD, PICT, PNG, PNTG, QTIF, RAD, RAW, SGI, TGA TIF, TIFF, XBM, and including FAX files.

TIFF support is there but I've found it to be shaky or end up with converted files large than the original TIFF. Don't ask me why Preview does that.